On Determining Whether the HPTA is Fully Developed

Fractality

Fractality

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Messages
91
We all understand that AAS should not be used by those who are not finished developing their endocrine system.

I've heard differing recommendations as to the earliest age one can safely use AAS. Typically, I see age 25 recommended or the more general "mid-to-late 20s" recommendation.

I would think that everyone develops at a different rate so there isn't a universal recommendation; but perhaps there is an age at which everyone has a fully developed HPTA.

Given that consideration, is there a test one can take to determine that their HPTA is finished developing? If not, is there an age that has been scientifically verified to represent a finished HPTA?
 
Well by 30 you should be done lol. But I hopped on at 23. I'm gonna blast n cruise so it doesn't matter if I finished developing or not. I don't believe there is a hard set age for its development to be done.
 
Epiphyseal growth plate closure is one marker... Once over 21 you should be ok, but your body should be high in endogenous testosterone so why bother injecting straight away, give it a few years until you've learned how to train n eat and natural gains have plateaued....
 
You can actually just have some consistent blood work to determine and see if you are at a normal functioning level. I see alot of my clients super high on a testosterone level well into their late 20's if they have not previously tampered with hormones.

At the same time, there are alot of young men nowadays that are very low.

What you would want to do is to get labs for overall test and free test levels. I have seen people go as often as every 2 weeks, same time in the am when levels are the highest. The scale in general would run from 240-1000nanos for overall. Free Test levels show the concentration of test in the bloodstream and are far more accurate of that day's functioning, but this can vary far more then overall levels, so you can use overall levels to gauge where you are at.

Most men 21-23 should be well within range of 500-1000nanos at all times.

Age would not and cannot ever determine full HPTA function or overall that puberty and all hormonal changes are finished. Like Genetic Freak said, there are some tell tale signs that might give away some clues that you are past that point, there is absolutely no way to tell when it is going to happen. It is individual. Some men might be 19. some 21, some 23. Some might be deficient at 18, some might be nearly off the chart at 30+ years.

Likewise labs are the only true way to know what is going on in the body..and one lab is not enough. You need regular labs to see where you are at :)
 
You'd need to measure gene expression in the relevant parts of the brain. This would probably involve sticking in a needle and taking a sample. Both dangerous and uncomfortable if not painful. And not yet developed except maybe for some lucky rats.
 
Serotonin101 said:
Well by 30 you should be done lol. But I hopped on at 23. I'm gonna blast n cruise so it doesn't matter if I finished developing or not. I don't believe there is a hard set age for its development to be done.
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Yeah, I will more than likely be start no later than 30. That's the conservative approach.


Genetic Freak said:
Epiphyseal growth plate closure is one marker... Once over 21 you should be ok, but your body should be high in endogenous testosterone so why bother injecting straight away, give it a few years until you've learned how to train n eat and natural gains have plateaued....
Click to expand...

How can the growth plates be tested for closure? I agree, the early 20s provide enough endogenous test (unless a defect is present).

WesleyInman said:
You can actually just have some consistent blood work to determine and see if you are at a normal functioning level. I see alot of my clients super high on a testosterone level well into their late 20's if they have not previously tampered with hormones.

At the same time, there are alot of young men nowadays that are very low.

What you would want to do is to get labs for overall test and free test levels. I have seen people go as often as every 2 weeks, same time in the am when levels are the highest. The scale in general would run from 240-1000nanos for overall. Free Test levels show the concentration of test in the bloodstream and are far more accurate of that day's functioning, but this can vary far more then overall levels, so you can use overall levels to gauge where you are at.

Most men 21-23 should be well within range of 500-1000nanos at all times.

Age would not and cannot ever determine full HPTA function or overall that puberty and all hormonal changes are finished. Like Genetic Freak said, there are some tell tale signs that might give away some clues that you are past that point, there is absolutely no way to tell when it is going to happen. It is individual. Some men might be 19. some 21, some 23. Some might be deficient at 18, some might be nearly off the chart at 30+ years.

Likewise labs are the only true way to know what is going on in the body..and one lab is not enough. You need regular labs to see where you are at :)
Click to expand...

Interesting...thanks for the wealth of info.

black53 said:
You'd need to measure gene expression in the relevant parts of the brain. This would probably involve sticking in a needle and taking a sample. Both dangerous and uncomfortable if not painful. And not yet developed except maybe for some lucky rats.
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Yeah...fuck that haha.
 
Genetic Freak said:
Epiphyseal growth plate closure is one marker... Once over 21 you should be ok, but your body should be high in endogenous testosterone so why bother injecting straight away, give it a few years until you've learned how to train n eat and natural gains have plateaued....
Click to expand...

As much as I agree as far as harm reduction goes, the gains from aas vs natural even at 21 with high natty test levels, they just do not compare, not in the slightest. I have put on 40lbs of lean weight in 3 months at 21, natural I would still be trying to get where I am 5 years from now. If somebody has aspirations of bodybuilding and isn't just some gym rat looking for a beach body then I say they should go for it. As far as hr goes this advice may not be the best as the hpta may not be fully finished developing although I am here, I am fine, I feel better than I've ever felt, I'm bigger in 3 months that I could possibly be naturally at my age, and I plan on going further with this now, blast and cruise is my new motto, no more pct. I don't think anyone should make this choice lightly.
It's a matter of individual circumstance rather than a rule that must be followed.
Just my 2c.
 
nolys said:
As much as I agree as far as harm reduction goes, the gains from aas vs natural even at 21 with high natty test levels, they just do not compare, not in the slightest. I have put on 40lbs of lean weight in 3 months at 21, natural I would still be trying to get where I am 5 years from now. If somebody has aspirations of bodybuilding and isn't just some gym rat looking for a beach body then I say they should go for it. As far as hr goes this advice may not be the best as the hpta may not be fully finished developing although I am here, I am fine, I feel better than I've ever felt, I'm bigger in 3 months that I could possibly be naturally at my age, and I plan on going further with this now, blast and cruise is my new motto, no more pct. I don't think anyone should make this choice lightly.
It's a matter of individual circumstance rather than a rule that must be followed.
Just my 2c.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think if its a passion and goal and you have the genetics, and you intend to be pro in a strength or bodybuilding sport..more power to you at any age. Look at Lee Priest as an example..he started young, very young..but he knew he was going to make it.

The issue is there are too many fucking idiots today. These guys get on steroids at 18...tell everyone they are gonna compete and they end up just trying to walk around in a wife beater, thinking that they look "tough". I see this on a daily basis. They never compete, never do shit and you see them a year later and they are 120lbs soaking wet...bc they didn't PCT, didn't even know what PCT is, etc...

Overall I try to dissuade men at 18-21 from using gear. I do not want to see it happen. If they are going to use it anyways, I will tell them a safe way to run their products and safe dosages. I do not advocate it. But I will not watch someone fuck up their body if they come to me and ask me for information on how to safely use.
 
Epiphyseal growth plate closure is one marker... Once over 21 you should be ok, but your body should be high in endogenous testosterone so why bother injecting straight away, give it a few years until you've learned how to train n eat and natural gains have plateaued....
Click to expand...

nolys said:
As much as I agree as far as harm reduction goes, the gains from aas vs natural even at 21 with high natty test levels, they just do not compare, not in the slightest. I have put on 40lbs of lean weight in 3 months at 21, natural I would still be trying to get where I am 5 years from now. If somebody has aspirations of bodybuilding and isn't just some gym rat looking for a beach body then I say they should go for it. As far as hr goes this advice may not be the best as the hpta may not be fully finished developing although I am here, I am fine, I feel better than I've ever felt, I'm bigger in 3 months that I could possibly be naturally at my age, and I plan on going further with this now, blast and cruise is my new motto, no more pct. I don't think anyone should make this choice lightly.
It's a matter of individual circumstance rather than a rule that must be followed.
Just my 2c.
Click to expand...

I Think Wesley has just about summed it up.. But I should have been clearer: We are primarily a harm reduction site here, with members health our primary concern, not product promotion.... Today's youth believe its OK to jump on AAS as soon as they start training, without a basic understanding of diet/nutrition or training methodology, I believe they should acquire these basic skills prior to considering exogenous hormone use... It should then be obvious if they have the genetic potential to progress further in bodybuilding or strength sports through AAS use...
Most people are lazy and think gear is the answer to everything, when the reality is AAS play a much smaller part than they think.. Exogenous hormones are not for everyone, if you don't have the determination and genetic potential the benefits of AAS will be minimal..

That was my thinking nolys...
 
Genetic Freak said:
I Think Wesley has just about summed it up.. But I should have been clearer: We are primarily a harm reduction site here, with members health our primary concern, not product promotion.... Today's youth believe its OK to jump on AAS as soon as they start training, without a basic understanding of diet/nutrition or training methodology, I believe they should acquire these basic skills prior to considering exogenous hormone use... It should then be obvious if they have the genetic potential to progress further in bodybuilding or strength sports through AAS use...
Most people are lazy and think gear is the answer to everything, when the reality is AAS play a much smaller part than they think.. Exogenous hormones are not for everyone, if you don't have the determination and genetic potential the benefits of AAS will be minimal..

That was my thinking nolys...
Click to expand...

I think you are completely correct and I agree with everything you said. I think the 2 of our points we have just made actually fit in together I mention that if somebody is serious it will be more reasonable at a younger age and the gym rats should probably stay away from the gear. That's pretty much what I took from your post apart from you didn't mention about younger more serious lifters being more suited for gear.
Pretty similar points just made in a different ways imo. What age did you start using?
 
nolys said:
I think you are completely correct and I agree with everything you said. I think the 2 of our points we have just made actually fit in together I mention that if somebody is serious it will be more reasonable at a younger age and the gym rats should probably stay away from the gear. That's pretty much what I took from your post apart from you didn't mention about younger more serious lifters being more suited for gear.
Pretty similar points just made in a different ways imo. What age did you start using?
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Either 1981 or 82, can't remember..... That would have made me quite a youngster nolys..
 
From your posts, I've come to the conclusion you're around my parents age. Can We call You Uncle GF? :P as long as you're not the weird uncle everyone talks about lol.
 
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