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on becoming a genius

A

amber ::

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one day in my 7th grade history class we had this sub. he spent the entire class bragging about his children. his son, at one time held the highest IQ, and his daughter, later held the 3rd highest IQ. this interested me very much. he was ordinary, his children were ordinary, i was ordinary. i spent the next 6 years reading everything i could get my hands on, studying everything. i wanted nothing more than to be a genius, an ordinary genius.

ive always held this theory that anyone can become a genius. however for the first time in my life, im questioning whether or not its actually possible. does anyone know?

im bright, but i dont know if ive always been bright, or if all my studying has made me bright, or if its just something that came along with age. i go in circles with this idea.

so is one born smart, or is one made smart (as that sub said his children were) ?
 
It's some of both.

Some people may have more natural aptitude by virtue of their genes, but it still requires work to become truly intelligent.

What if Einstein had been born in a jungle with no access at all to modern education? Do you think he would have been able to learn math and physics completely on his own, without even having been exposed to the concepts? Of course not.

On the other hand, someone who is born retarded can only be taught so much in terms of abstract reasoning, problem-solving and so on.

In general, however, when talking about people who are not born with serious physical defects, environment, teaching and education play a much more substantial role in the development of intelligence.
 
I believe that for the most part, our brains have the same potential for branching and forming neural interconnections... this is basically when intelligence is, or how it is formed.

how these interconnections are used is determined mostly by environment, upbringing and stimulation (mental and physical)

sadly, most of the interconnections are formed early in life, so conscious effort is not really going to help, since by the time you are old enough to make the effort, it's far too late.
 
A child is born with more than 100 billion brain cells. Synapses are the connections, and by the age of eight, a child can have near 1,000 trillion of them. For some reason they drop by about half (500 trillion) heading into age 10.

Connections are discarded when unused. That's why people get "rusty" in their piano playing.

However, not all children are born with the same potential. From browsing studies, it seems that a child can be affected roughly 20 IQ points up or down by environment.

So an 80 IQ "potential" at birth can be 100 or 60 depending on environmental and parental factors.

The most important time is conception to the third birthday.

Finally, want your child to increase those vital connections? Put away the Marilyn Manson and the Hard House, and pull out the Bach. It is well documented that classical music stimulates the brain to no end, with it's diversity of dynamics, huge variety of sound, and richness of rhythm and harmony.
 
IQ is determined by both, but it's "mostly" genes. Twin studies[1,2] have generally found about 70% of the variation in IQ is due to genetic factors.

Course, that above figure is only valid for the general US population... in extreme cases, where children aren't stimulated much they are young, I would expect IQ to drop drastically. Similarly, an unusually intensive environment as a child probably has a very large positive effect on IQ.

But like nowanmai, it's been my experience that the vast majority of the environmental factors come into play at a very young age. After that, your level of innate intelligence seems largely (tho not entirely) set, barring of course things like brain injury or alcoholism.

Of course, how bright someone seems is due to more than this. I know people who are not that intelligent (they struggle with learning many things) yet who are very interested in intellectual subjects and so spend lots of time reading, thinking, and talking about them. These people are far more knowledgeable, and come off as much brighter than, plenty of the "slacker geniuses" I know who could learn calculus in a couple hours -- if only they ever bothered.

[1]Bouchard et al. "Sources of Human Psychological Differences: The Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart." Science 250:223-228 (1990).
[2]Lochlin. Am Psychol 44:1285 (1989).
 
First of all, to amber: I would just like to point out that your teacher was most likely not bragging. Kid's and teenagers(especially middle schoolers) tend to take every idea, thought, action, and even a mere look to the negative degree. The teacher was probably attempting to encourage/motivate/interest you on the subject of intelligence. And since you posted this topic, from the sounds of it, the man did a good job of doing so. Just wanted to share that. Anyways...

I am a firm believer that one is not born a genius. I sincerely do not think there is a genius gene as some science fanatics may theorize. True geniuses develop their abilities from what they had to work with.

So what is a genius? A genius is highly intelligent. But this is very misleading. Intelligence is, IMHO, nothing more than a collection of memories--facts, laws, definitions, theories, ideas, etc. Creativity applies those memories to other activities that may be suitable. As we all know, Einstein quoted "creativity is more important than knowledge." I don't think a single person here can dispute that. But one thing that he didn't mention in that quote is imagination. Imagination, IMHO, is far more important than creativity and memory combined. Imagination is the catalyst for creativity and memory.

Imagination is so often confused with creativity, and it's understandable because they often coexist so frequently. A far-fetched real life comparison between the 3 goes as follows. Let's use golf.---

Memory: You hear a specific tactic for a swing from a golf instructor.

Creativity: You apply that tactic to one of your games, in a way that suits you, and you alone. You tweak the swing to perfection, and it benefits you, and you alone. I say for you and you alone, because if you're doing something exactly as someone else, then it's nothing more than memory. You haven't truly applied the tactic to YOUR routine.

Imagination: You apply that golf swing to some other game that you play in real life. Let's say for instance, hockey. Now most likely, that golf swing won't work on the ice rink, but how do you know for certain until you have personally experienced the attempt? Ever see "happy gilmore"? There's no rip-off intended here, I just realized it is a perfect example to my scenario. Rather ironic when you think about it. ---

The most obvious point in which I'm trying to make is that all of those traits are required in order to become a genius. These traits all feed off the other two, and when you have learned how to use all of them at the right moment and at the right time, you're "genius level" increases at an incredible rate.

How does one develope these traits? It varies so drastically for everyone that there is no solution. The only tip I can give is: keep an open mind and you'll figure out a way; observe people and their actions and what drives them to choose those actions;ask questions; and most importantly, ENJOY thinking.

One aspect of developing genius-like qualities, is what Petersko brought up--synapses. He is completely correct when he says that the 'connections are discarded after being unused'. If you don't expand your knowledge and desire to think, your gift of synapses will go bye-bye. My parents told me when I was much younger that same thing in more baby-talk. Something like "If you don't use your brain enough, it will spoil." For some reason or another I took this very seriously and I keep them words in my mind every day of my life. And this is so crucial when you are young(~age 5 or younger).

In a nutshell, this post is a longer, deeper interpretation of what that oh so famous quote meant: "if you want to become a genius, you must TRULY desire it."
 
Whenever this topic comes up, I always like to mention a professor I once had, Mr. Harvey Friedman.

A brief history of Harvey Friedman: He received his PhD from MIT in mathematics at the age of 17, and was soon accepted as a professor at Stanford. This put him in the Guiness Book of World Records for the youngest professor in the world.
In the years since then, Dr. Friedman has gone on to obtain PhDs in Philosophy, Music Theory, and Computer Science - four PhDs total.

Dr. Friedman is, I think, an example where it is evident that his intelligence exceeds any cultural and environmental factors. Simply put, he is smarter than any of us could probably ever hope to be. I like to think I'm a reasonably bright person, but having met Harvey Friedman (and people like him) before, I can attest that my brain simply doesn't operate on the same level as his. I could have been raised in the most nurturing environment possible with access to the best education and it wouldn't matter - my brain just isn't wired that way (and neither is anyone else's on this board, I suspect).
 
so what do we mean by genius?
what do we mean by intelligence?
We know that IQ scores are valid in the sense that they are able to predict grades received in schooling.
Is this what we mean by intelligence?
 
^^ Good questions.

There are so many types of intelligence, types of genius. Mathematics has been lauded as one of the great followings but only because most of us cannot understand it at all. Similarly, shamans would be considered geniuses as they, and only they, understand the astral plane. Musicians, sportsmen/women, lawyers, basically anyone who needs to 'think on their feet' can be geniuses.

It's all about brainspeed baby!
 
^^^
As someone who was in a "gifted" program for grades 4 -12, I don't think that IQ is necessarily a predictor of the kind of marks someone will get. While all the students in the program allegedly had higher than average IQ (students were admitted to the program based on a mandatory board wide intelligence test in grade 3), many of my classmates (myself included at times) did not do concomitantly well marks-wise.

Anyway, this having been said I think the questions you raise are important. Terms like "intelligence" and "genius" are subjective categories. Moreover, I believe they are culturally constructed which makes them inherently problematic.
 
Those terms are very very subjective, so I tend to go by IQ. You simply can't fake that. It's not only speed of thought but depth. For example, it's my theory that you could devise multiple choice questions that required a person to be able to think with extraordinary depth and link complex concepts such that only people of a certain "intelligence" could get most of them right. Most people below that level would have a hard time getting more than 25% (chance) right. Contrast this with an essay test where even stupid people can get partial credit.

I think it's pretty obvious who the smarter people are. I do think that there are *lots* of smart, perhaps genius people who are never noticed because they don't engage anything, they don't WANT to.

That "multiple-intelligences" crap is one thing: a really good way to sell a book! The author just shifts definitions so that semi-smart people who have any talent whatsoever can say that their talent is a "type" of intelligence. It makes people feel good about themselves. So you're not smart but you're good at playing the flute? You have MUSICAL intelligence, so you're smart after all! blah blah...
 
^^

So you're saying Hans Seb Bach is not a genius?

IQ tests are unreliable, the other day I aced the Menza test, apparently only two Menza members had gotten 100%. Yet on a recent IQ test I scored a paltry 123.

I like this definition of intelligence: Only those who agree with your own viewpoint are intelligent, all else are ignorant.

Think about it.
 
^^^

I think I must make the obvious and correct move of here agreeing with nads account of intelligence, as to avoid being ignorant ;)

I don't know why this is sticking around in my head, but John Stuart Mill was often refered to as "the constructed Genius," because of the intense tutolege he recieved as a youth; he was made or made himself into a Genius.

I think that what counts as "genius," and others have commented on this point, is one's ability to make things new, to order and arrange things in a manner not previously thought of.

:)
 
^^

Ha ha. :) Its only an observation. [And a logical landmine] I've seen many intelligent (IMO) people reduced to ignorance over disagreement on this board.
 
An IQ literally measures a person's perceived intellectual age divided by their actual age and then multiplied by 100 (hence the name "intelligence quotient"). So a kid at age 5 who appears to have the knowledge and learning ability that a 10-year-old does would have an IQ of 200 (just a hypothetical situation).

Understanding what exactly IQ measures helps us understand that IQ is a function of both learned knowledge and ability to learn, which is affected by both genetic and environmental factors. It also tells us that IQs, contrary to popular belief, can and do change.

The kid who's learned to read at age 3 may be tested in kindergarten as a 160 IQ, but if s/he has shitty teachers or doesn't have the discipline to learn other concepts as early in life will literally drop IQ points in a few years. Theoretically this doesn't happen because smart kids are supposed to be placed in special programs with more challenging curriculum, but you know how that goes...

I don't know if it's really possible for someone to become a "genius" out of mere dedication (after all, it's a commonly held belief that dedication to learn is a genius trait anyway, so maybe you were one all along), but it's certainly possible to raise or drop IQ points based on how much you apply yourself and the learning facilities you have access to.
 
IQ tests are unreliable, the other day I aced the Menza test, apparently only two Menza members had gotten 100%.
Click to expand...

If you aced the Menza test, then you're definitely a candidate to go to Harvurd for college.

;)
 
^^

*shrugs* I'm too lazy for high powered learning. I'd rather hang out with friends and spin decks.
 
Very complicated topic. I will assume we don't just mean "possessing a high level of skill". Difficult subject to debate, but for the sake of argument I will say that "genius" is a mixture of intelligence and creativity. This entire post should have lots of "in my opinion" or "excuse my lack of modesty" but I won't litter up my post with disclaimers.

My definitions: Creativity is the ability to produce or design new things. Intelligence is the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations. I include "production" in creativity because the person actually needs to generate some output. There is an intensity and curiosity component in intelligence. If anyone wants to nitpick my definitions, please provide better ones of your own first. ;)

See also--
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51935&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

How are intelligence and creativity connected? Can intelligence or creativity be developed?

Each person has a hard ceiling for their intelligence and creativity and the ceiling for each category might be at similar or very different heights. Some people quickly hit the limit on one or both of their categories while other people never maximize their potential.

Beyond basic schooling and a healthy environment, I don't think intelligence can be impacted all that much by environment. Some kids initially benefit from a confidence boost from their parents but they will quickly realize where they stand once they start interacting with other kids their own age. They see that most of their classmates learn the alphabet and are promoted to the next grade so the novelty wears off.

I do think creativity can be influenced by environmental factors because it happened to me. I am not gonna bore people with my family history, but we had very little culture in our home. Two examples:

  • I was 12 when I got the chance to sit in a senior level philosophy/logic course during summer session at the local college. It led to a more orderly (but not mechanical) way of thinking. Basically imagine someone trying to organize 1000 sheets of loose paper in a windstorm, and then turning off the wind and handing the kid a stack of folders. It was a chance to tie things together in a deeper or more meaningful way that had not been previously possible.
  • I was 14 when I sat down for four months and finished my first full length novel. My parents actively discouraged my efforts (if that gives you some idea) and neither of them have ever read it even to this day. The ability to create an entire alternate reality from scratch, and working on something substantial where there is no goal or "correct" solution, taught me a few things that help me when I am trying to solve a real problem.

Immediately after both of these experiences I could sense a change in the way I approached things. A switch had been turned on. I believe that intelligence and creativity are connected in a multiplicative sense. People started viewing me a multi-dimensional "threat" in things....if that makes any sense. Or perhaps that is about the age when adults can see that a child is more intelligent than them (which clouds this argument). Or maybe kids just grow up and their skills naturally flourish somehow. Regardless, something changed where I was not just the kid who could solve difficult math problems or read challenging books. I had "something" that was not easy for them to describe.

I now believe intelligence can't be significantly changed but creativity can be enhanced through environment (but not above the ceiling of one's potential). As much as I wish it wasn't so, everyone is NOT born equal. Genius can be nurtured if someone is intelligent and some level of creativity has been untapped. But it is hard to tap such ability when you don't get as much sleep as the others because you have to wake up at 4AM to help the family business. If people received their Ph.D. earlier than some, it was because their parents allowed them to skip grades and enabled that development. If someone can speak four languages before starting preschool, it also means they had to be exposed to four languages.

You have to factor in environmental conditions before being impressed by signs of precocious behavior. Not everyone has the benefit of such early opportunities. I definitely agree, however, that our society is open enough that everyone has the opportunity to reach their full potential (eventually). Feel free to agree or disagree, just remember it is difficult to type up a concise reply to this question.
 
I recon you can be born into it and learn it. The brain is a muscle it can be trained. But I've also noticed that a lot of geniuses have had some type of spiritual insight, so perhaps thats a part of it too.
 
Hi there

I would definately have to agree with Catch-22.. Everyone has the potential for high intelligence. Also I would like to point out that it's futile to compare your intelligence to others. As much as you want to, it'll never benefit you, because you'll never know what the other person is thinking, the mindset that you are in, and exactly how they think. This is why I refuse to take an IQ test. Isn't that what an IQ is? A way to compare one to the 'normal' intelligence? Not a lot of people stop to realize just how different we all are.

Just imagine, as best as possible, visiting someone else's mind for 24 hours. You could witness exactly what is going through they're conscience in simple common daily routines. It may be interesting, but in all honesty, most of us would wigg out. The way we think is just so distinct from others. IMHO, I really think this is the entire goal of love--to be capable of coming so near, yet so far, from that person's mindset. Sorry for the digression.

I really should have mentioned this in my previous reply, up above: if you stay persistently open-minded, you will in some time or another become a genius. Guarenteed.

Oh, and many would ask what I compare myself to (since I don't compare myself to others), in order to measure my intelligence. I take a flashback to yesterday.
 
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