Kenickie
Bluelight Crew
actually this is very true and important. my oncle always bought one of those planting by the moon almanacs every year, it's very important :D
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Old Wives Tales & Superstitions
- Thread starter Kenickie
- Start date
actually this is very true and important. my oncle always bought one of those planting by the moon almanacs every year, it's very important :D
Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
One can distinguish a poisonous mushroom from one which is good to eat by:
Cooking in water with a silver spoon, if it discolors the metal the mushrooms is poisonous.
Toxic fungi taste bad, edible ones taste good-utter bollocks, some poor bastards who have eaten deadly Amanita spp. report they tasted quite good, and the knight on horseback, Tricholoma equestre, is very popular 'edible' species, meant to be quite delicious, but contains a particularly nasty toxin that tends to cause symptoms only after repeated meals during a short time, allowing it to build up, delicious, but too much will cause severe rhabdomyolysis, breaking down muscle tissue and causing toxic breakdown products to flood the kidneys, causing kidney failure and a hell of a lot of pain. Plenty of edible mushrooms can taste pretty shitty, some enjoy eating blewits, but I find them perfumy and sickly.
If you can peel the skin from a mushrooms cap, it is safe to eat-totally untrue, one can peel the surface skin from Amanita phalloides.
Another one is the myth that there are no dangerously toxic boletes. Whilst there aren't many, the devil's bolete, Boletus satanas contains a pretty potent cytotoxic protein, bolesatine, and B.pulcherrimus has proved fatal.
Cooking in water with a silver spoon, if it discolors the metal the mushrooms is poisonous.
Toxic fungi taste bad, edible ones taste good-utter bollocks, some poor bastards who have eaten deadly Amanita spp. report they tasted quite good, and the knight on horseback, Tricholoma equestre, is very popular 'edible' species, meant to be quite delicious, but contains a particularly nasty toxin that tends to cause symptoms only after repeated meals during a short time, allowing it to build up, delicious, but too much will cause severe rhabdomyolysis, breaking down muscle tissue and causing toxic breakdown products to flood the kidneys, causing kidney failure and a hell of a lot of pain. Plenty of edible mushrooms can taste pretty shitty, some enjoy eating blewits, but I find them perfumy and sickly.
If you can peel the skin from a mushrooms cap, it is safe to eat-totally untrue, one can peel the surface skin from Amanita phalloides.
Another one is the myth that there are no dangerously toxic boletes. Whilst there aren't many, the devil's bolete, Boletus satanas contains a pretty potent cytotoxic protein, bolesatine, and B.pulcherrimus has proved fatal.
tiggerific
Bluelighter
^^ that is interesting, though I have never heard of those ones, the one about a metal spoon have you tried it before?
I used to take spore samples and have a book with me. always wanted to go on one of the courses with someone who knows as when I am unsure I leave well alone, end of.
floating eggs are bad. this is actually true if you get a bowl of water and place an egg in it, if it lies flat along the bottom it is fresh, if it stands up but is still on the bottom it is older but you can still eat if it floats throw it, it is off.
I used to take spore samples and have a book with me. always wanted to go on one of the courses with someone who knows as when I am unsure I leave well alone, end of.
floating eggs are bad. this is actually true if you get a bowl of water and place an egg in it, if it lies flat along the bottom it is fresh, if it stands up but is still on the bottom it is older but you can still eat if it floats throw it, it is off.
addictivepersona
Bluelight Crew
It doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. As an egg ages, the air sac at one end of the shell enlarges as the whole egg condenses (for lack of a better term at 7a
). So, it doesn't mean it's rotten and should be tossed if it floats--Just means it isn't the best./Dietetics class in the Old Wives Tale thread.
tiggerific
Bluelighter
We have to use that here, if it has a date on it and it is past straight to the bin. no date its the float test and if it floats its the bin also.
catering rules and regs hence why its done like that here.
thats the rules we work by for food standards
If the egg stays at the bottom - it is fresh.
If the egg is at an angle on the bottom - it is still fresh and good to eat.
If the egg stands on its pointed end at the bottom - it is still safe to eat but best used for baking and making hard-cooked eggs.
If the egg floats - they're stale and best discarded.
eating cheese at night leads to nightmares
that old wife tale I have also heard with ice cream. don't believe lol
catering rules and regs hence why its done like that here.
thats the rules we work by for food standards
If the egg stays at the bottom - it is fresh.
If the egg is at an angle on the bottom - it is still fresh and good to eat.
If the egg stands on its pointed end at the bottom - it is still safe to eat but best used for baking and making hard-cooked eggs.
If the egg floats - they're stale and best discarded.
eating cheese at night leads to nightmares
that old wife tale I have also heard with ice cream. don't believe lol
Owl Eyed
Bluelighter
If you play/fool around with fire, you will pee your bed.
If you go into the water/swimming right after eating you will drown.
If you go into the water/swimming right after eating you will drown.
ocean
Bluelight Crew
A ring around, or rainbow around the moon means rain will come.
My grandfather said:
If a broom falls, company is coming.
Do not pass scissors hand to hand, put them down or you will pass bad luck.
If you spill salt, throw it over your shoulder for luck.....if you don't its bad luck.
If your palms itch, money is coming.
If your ears are ringing, people are talking about you.
If you crave meat during pregnancy, you will have a boy- If sweets, and you will have a girl.
My grandfather said:
If a broom falls, company is coming.
Do not pass scissors hand to hand, put them down or you will pass bad luck.
If you spill salt, throw it over your shoulder for luck.....if you don't its bad luck.
If your palms itch, money is coming.
If your ears are ringing, people are talking about you.
If you crave meat during pregnancy, you will have a boy- If sweets, and you will have a girl.
Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
Tiggerific, no I haven't tried it. There are such a wide variety of poisons within fungi that even if it did work for one or more the chances of a mutually compatible reaction occuring between Ag and them all, are slim to bugger all.
For instance:
Amanita, Galerina, Lepiota, Conocybe species all have members containing amatoxins, and there are the closely related phallotoxins in at least Amanita phalloides, the deathcap, which while nontoxic when ingested by mouth, they are highly toxic by injection. Likewise it is thought that the virotoxins in the Amanita virosa complex (inc A.verna etc) may well not be toxic per os. All are cyclic peptides, of a novel structure, in the case of the amatoxins, containing an unusual aminoacid, their mode of action is to inhibit protein synthesis in the liver by a high affinity binding and inactivation of RNA polymerase II, causing severe cytotoxicity, resulting in widespread cell death, and fulminant liver failure, in some cases also kidney damage, hepatic encephalopathy, and screwing with the bodys electrolyte balance.
Particularly nasty thing about amatoxic poisoning is that they undergo enterohepatic recirculation via excretion in bile, and subsequent reabsorption from the intestine, so it gets to fuck your liver a new arse, travel down the digestive tract as if to be excreted, only to get sent back for another go, lather, rinse and repeat. Not to mention the 8-12ish hour delay before symptoms become apparent, during which time severe damage is already being done.
Notable species are A.phalloides, the death cap, A.virosa and A.verna, the destroying angels, A.ocreata. Interestingly, the false deathcap, A.citrina which does contain amatoxins, but in mere trace amounts and doesn't result in amatoxin poisoning for those who eat them, although they smell vile, and apparently taste of raw potato, and are meant to be pretty nasty. Bufotenine is apparently present (a tryptamine, one of the main actives in the tropical Yopo snuffs from the beans of Anadenanthera spp.)
Then there are a couple of kidney toxins, in some Amanita species outside the amatoxic varieties, A.smithiana, A.proxima and I think also maybe A.pseudoporphyria, based on aminohexadienoic acid derivatives, one causing rapid renal failure, the other more delayed, but not hugely so. The outlook for this kind of poisoning is more favourable though than the orellanine containing Cortinarius species, which can cause a delayed onset of symptoms, for weeks before the shit hits the fan, and is quite likely to require transplant.
Further toxins in the genus Amanita include a haemolytic agent in A.rubescens and probably its close relatives, but this is unstable to heat, and decomposes on cooking, some people find it quite tasty. Looks similar to the panther cap, though which should most certainly not be eaten!
That brings us to the next family of Amanita toxins, A.muscaria, the fly agaric, is well known for its psychedelic use, along with A.gemmata and A.pantherina, contain the GABAa agonist muscimol, responsible for the psychotropic effects, and traces of a peripherally selective muscarinic acetylcholine receptor, muscarine (hence the name of course), present in large amounts in certain Clitocybe and almost all the Inocybe species, along with some of the toxic Boletus spp. the quantities in A.muscaria are harmless though, content varies amongst strains, and there is more in A.pantherina, no idea about A.gemmata, but I suspect it is significantly more than either of the other two.
I really wouldn't use A.gemmata as a psychedelic though, and DEFINATELY not A.pantherina, the latter contains traces of stizolobic acid, and stizolobinic acid, tiny traces, but they are both glutamatergic excitotoxins, in mammals it appears to be selective or at least preferentially binding to kainate receptors, and it is fucking shockingly potent, active in femtomolar concentrations!, which is crazy, compare with binding data for carfentanyl, carbon-11, a positron emitting isotope was used to radiolabel carfentanyl, which showed a 90% binding inhibition of 1mg/kg naloxone (caudate putamen and thalamus) at MOR, with a Ki = 0.051 nM, to give some idea of how potent stizolobic acid is, stizolobinic acid is apparently around 5x less potent.
Source for radioligand determination of carfentanyl binding affinity:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2982931
There is something of a similar nature in Clitocybe acromelalga, which causes a long-lived neuropathic hyperalgesia, and the same in C.amoenolens, again mediated by a excitotoxin, acromelic acid A, and B, again extremely potent, and talk about nasty, there is at least one case report of a 3 year duration of effects after some poor bastard made a meal of C.amoenolens.
The common sulfur tuft, Hypholoma fasiculare contains compounds called the fasiculols, which are neurotoxic, causing G.I symptoms, potential impairment of vision, possible reports of cardiac damage and delayed kidney failure, which is distinctly suggestive of amatoxin poisoning, common mushroom, I have been meaning to take samples and perform the Meixner test (colorimetric qualitative assay for amatoxins, using a sample of mushroom mashed onto high ligin paper, such as newspaper, and a drop or two of conc. HCl, a blueish halo/ring around the sample, possibly delayed by 15-20 minutes indicates the presence of amatoxins, although some mushrooms, particularly Galerina spp. do not always react, yet still contain the poison, strength of the color gives some rough idea as to content though)
Although the case report included coingestion of other mushrooms, sulfur tuft is definately pretty poisonous.
The brown roll-rim, Paxillus involutus, is a wierd one, causing, in some people, an autoimmune reaction which can be delayed many years, with previous consumption by people eating this species, and suddenly, severe haemolytic anaemia.
Some ink-caps (Coprinus spp.) contain coprine, which is harmless, those are mostly edible species, although some are too small to be worth considering for food, but it inhibits aldehyde dehydrogenase, the hepatic enzyme that metabolises alcohol into acetaldehyde, leading to a large buildup, the same mode of action shared by the alcohol-aversive anti abuse drug disulfiram, which won't kill, but make you ill enough to wish it had if alcohol is drunk with the meal, or a few days after.
There are the false morels, Gyromitra, and similar species, such as Verpa spp. and Helvellas, which are eaten by some people after boiling at least twice, throwing away the water, but fatal eaten raw, have severely poisoned killed cooks who inhaled the fumes being boiled off, all that lot contain gyromitrin, which is pretty neat stuff, an amide metabolic precursor of mono-methylhydrazine, which is used as rocket fuel. I sure as fuck wouldn't eat the things though. Some people get fucked even after thorough cooking, sensitivity varies, as does the toxin content, different populations of the fungi express different concentrations of MMH. Another neat thing about them, at least the Helvellas, never personally seen Gyromitra spp. I'm not sure if the false morels grow here, but Helvella species hiss while they give off spores, if you lift one to your ear, you can hear a crackling, fizzing sound, as they fire off their spores forcefully.
Cortinarius spp. the corts, or webcaps are a taxonomically diverse, and in many cases bloody hard to ID, there are some that are fluorescent under blacklight, I think beta-carboline (parent skeleton of the MAOI-a harmala alkaloids from syrian rue and caapi vine) has been found in some, but in a few species, there is a nasty kidney-fucker, extremely delayed action, structurally a bis-pyridinium dioxide, looks a bit like a derivative of the particularly toxic weedkiller paraquat, people occasionally make a pretty dumb mistake and think they are chanterelles, although one look at the difference in gill structure between the two and its unmistakeably different.
There are a couple of other miscellaneous nasties, a cytotoxic protein, bolesatine in Boletus satanas, the devils bolete, potentially fatal, but more likely to cause very severe G.I distress, two myotoxins in Tricholoma equestre, man on horseback, only tends to cause rhabdomyolysis (destruction of muscle tissue, and resultant flooding of kidneys with the breakdown products, causing kidney failure in severe cases, and most certainly incredibly painful), when meals are repeatedly eaten in a given time period, suggesting cumulative action but time-limited, and another in Russula subnigricans, which is just outright toxic.
Muscarine is pretty common, Inocybe spp. some boletes, Chlorophyllum molybdites, a parasol mushroom mimic, the glow in the dark jack 'o lanterns (Omphalotus spp.), some Clitocybes, and likely other families besides.
There was recently reported that people were dying every year in some rural villages in yunnan province, china, turned out to be a tiny mushroom the villagers saved for themselves, instead of sold, due to it being more or less financially worthless. In combination with high intake of the element barium in the water supply, people were eating it, and dropping like flies from sudden heart failure until education campaigns were instituted.
Ergot, the parasitic disease of cereal grains and producer of migraine remedies, of use in obstetric medicine as a uterine contracting agent, and of course, producer of valuable precursor compounds for making acid
Eat the stuff though, and it drives people psychotic/hallucinogenic, and causes gangrene, makes bodyparts rot and drop off, used to cause mayhem in medieval times when it got into bread.
Isolated reports of a cluster of fatal brain damage, limited to kidney failure patients, after eating Pleurocybella porrigens, the angel wing, an oyster mushroom-looking thing, which is otherwise a popular edible.
Other reports include some sort of neurotoxic poisoning from eating a polypore-ish fungus used for making a purple dye, Hapelopilus rutilans, a rather ugly bracket fungus, unless treated with a little potassium hydroxide, in which case a rather attractive bright purple color shows up, novel mode of action, inhibition of dihydroorotate dehydrogenase, which has been responsible for poisoning cases, although probably not many, its not something one would think to eat, as its a nondescript, woody bracket fungus, although softer when its not so old, IIRC it caused kidney/liver failure, and made blood levels of calcium and potassium plummet.
G.I irritants are ten a penny, and very varied, most of them just make you feel like shite, but Tricholoma pardinum, and Endoloma species, particularly E.sinuatum have been responsible deaths, the latter species is reportedly a very fast acting, virulently poisonous mushroom.
The amatoxin bunch are generally considered the most toxic, with as little as 30-50g of fresh mushroom (probably around 3-5g dry weight, considering average rough conversion of fresh mushrooms in general is 10g/1g, fatal dose of alpha-amanitin is around 4-6mg), but there is a funky looking coral/club fungus looking bugger from the far east, Podostroma cornu-damae, which is most unusual for a fungus with a proper fruitbody, as opposed to bacteria, moulds and the like in that it contains tricothocene mycotoxins, which have been stockpiled as chemical warfare agents, and are cytotoxic via skin exposure as well as ingestion.
That little fucker, makes the death caps look positively harmless, killed a japanese guy that ate a tiny amount, reportedly around half a gram, estimated, died in two days post ingestion. Brain, kidney, liver damage, fucks the immune system over, devastating white blood cell counts, sometimes disseminated intravascular coagulation, an absolute disaster in any patient, happens in some cases of snakebite, particularly by some vipers, and the back-fanged boomslang snake, or via infection by the haemorrhagic fevers, ebola, marburg, lassa fever, some dengue variants, and the septicaemic presentations of plague and smallpox. Basically causes blood to clot within blood vessels, until your clotting factors are depleted, then its hello bleeding out internally, good fucking bye world.
Just about the nastiest mushroom I have ever heard of, and most likely, the deadliest, certainly on a weight basis.
One cannot afford to rely on any old wives tales or folk instructions on mushroom picking, nor assume that species in another country are the same as local species. Get good books, its helpful to learn some chemical tests, most of them are pretty simple, and the chemicals easily available, and not generally suspicious to fascist freedom-hating police zealot fuckups like the DEA, etc. particularly a few small vials and pipettes, can really help in IDing species, particularly Russula, and Lactarius which can be a real bugger to properly ID sometimes, spore printing is valuable, and in many cases nescessary, if you want to really go for it, get a decent microscope, for analysing spore morphology.
Above all, know your mushrooms, take good care with your IDs, when eating a new species, its wise not to be a gluttonous pig, until you know how you react, some people have allergies to even supermarket buttom mushrooms, oyster fungi etc that make for feeling fairly shitty for a while, and even when familiar with a species you enjoy, still check them, read from a guy once that made a meal, after staying out in the evening as light faded foraging, came to no harm, but the next day when he had a really clear look, he shit a brick when he found one lonely death cap in his basket.
All that said, don't let it discourage you from learning, or going hunting, if you are sensible and pay attention, its free food, I have covered pretty much the vast majority of ones to learn to recognise (albeit country specific distribution varies, and some you can forget about depending on where you live, no need to worry about the lethal Agaricus/shop button mushroom relative found in tropical african regions if you live in the UK etc)
Wild mushrooms are some of my favourite food, or some of them are, been interested in mycology since I was perhaps 4-5, and apart from throwing my guts up and nausea once after eating a non dangerous mushroom, that I had identified with absolute certainty, and correctly so, eaten by some, but certainly revolting, and I found out borderline edible, at least to me personally.
I have never been poisoned, and never experienced any worse effects than eating something that was simply not at all tasty, things like wild morels in stew, fried slices of giant puffball, larch boletes, ceps, chanterelles, are some of the best food I have ever tasted, and all the more so when you have spent all day poking about in the woods and have the satisfaction of a good haul or some particularly fortunate find.
Couple of culinary tips-a teaspoon or so of dried, powdered fly agaric is a fantastic flavour enhancer for meat dishes, it brings out the savoury flavour the japs call 'umami', but it must be dried over a long, low heat in the oven first, to decompose the toxic ibotenic acid into muscimol, doesn't need much for use as a spice, and the peppery bolete, Chalciporus piperatus (formely known as Boletus piperatus) which grows in association with silver birch trees, as does the fly agaric, can be used similarly to pepper, or chilli, but it has a unique fire all of its own, prepare by slicing off the pores, and discarding the stem, pores won't dry, just turn to slime, too full of moisture, and the stems are tough, both harmless though, merely undesirable, and use the flesh of the cap, after the pores are removed, slice thinly to dry them out, I remove the surface skin of the cap also, cleans them up of any muck, leaves etc, slice thinly and air dry. Grind/shred finely once dry. Good with a pinch or two sprinkled on a steak while its cooking, in the marinade/sauce, added to chilli, on sausages or meat stews. Never tried it on chicken or fish, but certainly no harm in trying things out. Dried morels go fantastic when rehydrated and used in beef dishes cooked in the gravy, or beef stew, but when preparing the fiddly buggers, they are hollow inside, cut open and examine pick out any bugs, slugs, etc, and the same needs doing with the honeycombed 'caps'
Just a couple of personal cooking tips I have tested out over the years
For instance:
Amanita, Galerina, Lepiota, Conocybe species all have members containing amatoxins, and there are the closely related phallotoxins in at least Amanita phalloides, the deathcap, which while nontoxic when ingested by mouth, they are highly toxic by injection. Likewise it is thought that the virotoxins in the Amanita virosa complex (inc A.verna etc) may well not be toxic per os. All are cyclic peptides, of a novel structure, in the case of the amatoxins, containing an unusual aminoacid, their mode of action is to inhibit protein synthesis in the liver by a high affinity binding and inactivation of RNA polymerase II, causing severe cytotoxicity, resulting in widespread cell death, and fulminant liver failure, in some cases also kidney damage, hepatic encephalopathy, and screwing with the bodys electrolyte balance.
Particularly nasty thing about amatoxic poisoning is that they undergo enterohepatic recirculation via excretion in bile, and subsequent reabsorption from the intestine, so it gets to fuck your liver a new arse, travel down the digestive tract as if to be excreted, only to get sent back for another go, lather, rinse and repeat. Not to mention the 8-12ish hour delay before symptoms become apparent, during which time severe damage is already being done.
Notable species are A.phalloides, the death cap, A.virosa and A.verna, the destroying angels, A.ocreata. Interestingly, the false deathcap, A.citrina which does contain amatoxins, but in mere trace amounts and doesn't result in amatoxin poisoning for those who eat them, although they smell vile, and apparently taste of raw potato, and are meant to be pretty nasty. Bufotenine is apparently present (a tryptamine, one of the main actives in the tropical Yopo snuffs from the beans of Anadenanthera spp.)
Then there are a couple of kidney toxins, in some Amanita species outside the amatoxic varieties, A.smithiana, A.proxima and I think also maybe A.pseudoporphyria, based on aminohexadienoic acid derivatives, one causing rapid renal failure, the other more delayed, but not hugely so. The outlook for this kind of poisoning is more favourable though than the orellanine containing Cortinarius species, which can cause a delayed onset of symptoms, for weeks before the shit hits the fan, and is quite likely to require transplant.
Further toxins in the genus Amanita include a haemolytic agent in A.rubescens and probably its close relatives, but this is unstable to heat, and decomposes on cooking, some people find it quite tasty. Looks similar to the panther cap, though which should most certainly not be eaten!
That brings us to the next family of Amanita toxins, A.muscaria, the fly agaric, is well known for its psychedelic use, along with A.gemmata and A.pantherina, contain the GABAa agonist muscimol, responsible for the psychotropic effects, and traces of a peripherally selective muscarinic acetylcholine receptor, muscarine (hence the name of course), present in large amounts in certain Clitocybe and almost all the Inocybe species, along with some of the toxic Boletus spp. the quantities in A.muscaria are harmless though, content varies amongst strains, and there is more in A.pantherina, no idea about A.gemmata, but I suspect it is significantly more than either of the other two.
I really wouldn't use A.gemmata as a psychedelic though, and DEFINATELY not A.pantherina, the latter contains traces of stizolobic acid, and stizolobinic acid, tiny traces, but they are both glutamatergic excitotoxins, in mammals it appears to be selective or at least preferentially binding to kainate receptors, and it is fucking shockingly potent, active in femtomolar concentrations!, which is crazy, compare with binding data for carfentanyl, carbon-11, a positron emitting isotope was used to radiolabel carfentanyl, which showed a 90% binding inhibition of 1mg/kg naloxone (caudate putamen and thalamus) at MOR, with a Ki = 0.051 nM, to give some idea of how potent stizolobic acid is, stizolobinic acid is apparently around 5x less potent.
Source for radioligand determination of carfentanyl binding affinity:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2982931
There is something of a similar nature in Clitocybe acromelalga, which causes a long-lived neuropathic hyperalgesia, and the same in C.amoenolens, again mediated by a excitotoxin, acromelic acid A, and B, again extremely potent, and talk about nasty, there is at least one case report of a 3 year duration of effects after some poor bastard made a meal of C.amoenolens.
The common sulfur tuft, Hypholoma fasiculare contains compounds called the fasiculols, which are neurotoxic, causing G.I symptoms, potential impairment of vision, possible reports of cardiac damage and delayed kidney failure, which is distinctly suggestive of amatoxin poisoning, common mushroom, I have been meaning to take samples and perform the Meixner test (colorimetric qualitative assay for amatoxins, using a sample of mushroom mashed onto high ligin paper, such as newspaper, and a drop or two of conc. HCl, a blueish halo/ring around the sample, possibly delayed by 15-20 minutes indicates the presence of amatoxins, although some mushrooms, particularly Galerina spp. do not always react, yet still contain the poison, strength of the color gives some rough idea as to content though)
Although the case report included coingestion of other mushrooms, sulfur tuft is definately pretty poisonous.
The brown roll-rim, Paxillus involutus, is a wierd one, causing, in some people, an autoimmune reaction which can be delayed many years, with previous consumption by people eating this species, and suddenly, severe haemolytic anaemia.
Some ink-caps (Coprinus spp.) contain coprine, which is harmless, those are mostly edible species, although some are too small to be worth considering for food, but it inhibits aldehyde dehydrogenase, the hepatic enzyme that metabolises alcohol into acetaldehyde, leading to a large buildup, the same mode of action shared by the alcohol-aversive anti abuse drug disulfiram, which won't kill, but make you ill enough to wish it had if alcohol is drunk with the meal, or a few days after.
There are the false morels, Gyromitra, and similar species, such as Verpa spp. and Helvellas, which are eaten by some people after boiling at least twice, throwing away the water, but fatal eaten raw, have severely poisoned killed cooks who inhaled the fumes being boiled off, all that lot contain gyromitrin, which is pretty neat stuff, an amide metabolic precursor of mono-methylhydrazine, which is used as rocket fuel. I sure as fuck wouldn't eat the things though. Some people get fucked even after thorough cooking, sensitivity varies, as does the toxin content, different populations of the fungi express different concentrations of MMH. Another neat thing about them, at least the Helvellas, never personally seen Gyromitra spp. I'm not sure if the false morels grow here, but Helvella species hiss while they give off spores, if you lift one to your ear, you can hear a crackling, fizzing sound, as they fire off their spores forcefully.
Cortinarius spp. the corts, or webcaps are a taxonomically diverse, and in many cases bloody hard to ID, there are some that are fluorescent under blacklight, I think beta-carboline (parent skeleton of the MAOI-a harmala alkaloids from syrian rue and caapi vine) has been found in some, but in a few species, there is a nasty kidney-fucker, extremely delayed action, structurally a bis-pyridinium dioxide, looks a bit like a derivative of the particularly toxic weedkiller paraquat, people occasionally make a pretty dumb mistake and think they are chanterelles, although one look at the difference in gill structure between the two and its unmistakeably different.
There are a couple of other miscellaneous nasties, a cytotoxic protein, bolesatine in Boletus satanas, the devils bolete, potentially fatal, but more likely to cause very severe G.I distress, two myotoxins in Tricholoma equestre, man on horseback, only tends to cause rhabdomyolysis (destruction of muscle tissue, and resultant flooding of kidneys with the breakdown products, causing kidney failure in severe cases, and most certainly incredibly painful), when meals are repeatedly eaten in a given time period, suggesting cumulative action but time-limited, and another in Russula subnigricans, which is just outright toxic.
Muscarine is pretty common, Inocybe spp. some boletes, Chlorophyllum molybdites, a parasol mushroom mimic, the glow in the dark jack 'o lanterns (Omphalotus spp.), some Clitocybes, and likely other families besides.
There was recently reported that people were dying every year in some rural villages in yunnan province, china, turned out to be a tiny mushroom the villagers saved for themselves, instead of sold, due to it being more or less financially worthless. In combination with high intake of the element barium in the water supply, people were eating it, and dropping like flies from sudden heart failure until education campaigns were instituted.
Ergot, the parasitic disease of cereal grains and producer of migraine remedies, of use in obstetric medicine as a uterine contracting agent, and of course, producer of valuable precursor compounds for making acid
Eat the stuff though, and it drives people psychotic/hallucinogenic, and causes gangrene, makes bodyparts rot and drop off, used to cause mayhem in medieval times when it got into bread.
Isolated reports of a cluster of fatal brain damage, limited to kidney failure patients, after eating Pleurocybella porrigens, the angel wing, an oyster mushroom-looking thing, which is otherwise a popular edible.
Other reports include some sort of neurotoxic poisoning from eating a polypore-ish fungus used for making a purple dye, Hapelopilus rutilans, a rather ugly bracket fungus, unless treated with a little potassium hydroxide, in which case a rather attractive bright purple color shows up, novel mode of action, inhibition of dihydroorotate dehydrogenase, which has been responsible for poisoning cases, although probably not many, its not something one would think to eat, as its a nondescript, woody bracket fungus, although softer when its not so old, IIRC it caused kidney/liver failure, and made blood levels of calcium and potassium plummet.
G.I irritants are ten a penny, and very varied, most of them just make you feel like shite, but Tricholoma pardinum, and Endoloma species, particularly E.sinuatum have been responsible deaths, the latter species is reportedly a very fast acting, virulently poisonous mushroom.
The amatoxin bunch are generally considered the most toxic, with as little as 30-50g of fresh mushroom (probably around 3-5g dry weight, considering average rough conversion of fresh mushrooms in general is 10g/1g, fatal dose of alpha-amanitin is around 4-6mg), but there is a funky looking coral/club fungus looking bugger from the far east, Podostroma cornu-damae, which is most unusual for a fungus with a proper fruitbody, as opposed to bacteria, moulds and the like in that it contains tricothocene mycotoxins, which have been stockpiled as chemical warfare agents, and are cytotoxic via skin exposure as well as ingestion.
That little fucker, makes the death caps look positively harmless, killed a japanese guy that ate a tiny amount, reportedly around half a gram, estimated, died in two days post ingestion. Brain, kidney, liver damage, fucks the immune system over, devastating white blood cell counts, sometimes disseminated intravascular coagulation, an absolute disaster in any patient, happens in some cases of snakebite, particularly by some vipers, and the back-fanged boomslang snake, or via infection by the haemorrhagic fevers, ebola, marburg, lassa fever, some dengue variants, and the septicaemic presentations of plague and smallpox. Basically causes blood to clot within blood vessels, until your clotting factors are depleted, then its hello bleeding out internally, good fucking bye world.
Just about the nastiest mushroom I have ever heard of, and most likely, the deadliest, certainly on a weight basis.
One cannot afford to rely on any old wives tales or folk instructions on mushroom picking, nor assume that species in another country are the same as local species. Get good books, its helpful to learn some chemical tests, most of them are pretty simple, and the chemicals easily available, and not generally suspicious to fascist freedom-hating police zealot fuckups like the DEA, etc. particularly a few small vials and pipettes, can really help in IDing species, particularly Russula, and Lactarius which can be a real bugger to properly ID sometimes, spore printing is valuable, and in many cases nescessary, if you want to really go for it, get a decent microscope, for analysing spore morphology.
Above all, know your mushrooms, take good care with your IDs, when eating a new species, its wise not to be a gluttonous pig, until you know how you react, some people have allergies to even supermarket buttom mushrooms, oyster fungi etc that make for feeling fairly shitty for a while, and even when familiar with a species you enjoy, still check them, read from a guy once that made a meal, after staying out in the evening as light faded foraging, came to no harm, but the next day when he had a really clear look, he shit a brick when he found one lonely death cap in his basket.
All that said, don't let it discourage you from learning, or going hunting, if you are sensible and pay attention, its free food, I have covered pretty much the vast majority of ones to learn to recognise (albeit country specific distribution varies, and some you can forget about depending on where you live, no need to worry about the lethal Agaricus/shop button mushroom relative found in tropical african regions if you live in the UK etc)
Wild mushrooms are some of my favourite food, or some of them are, been interested in mycology since I was perhaps 4-5, and apart from throwing my guts up and nausea once after eating a non dangerous mushroom, that I had identified with absolute certainty, and correctly so, eaten by some, but certainly revolting, and I found out borderline edible, at least to me personally.
I have never been poisoned, and never experienced any worse effects than eating something that was simply not at all tasty, things like wild morels in stew, fried slices of giant puffball, larch boletes, ceps, chanterelles, are some of the best food I have ever tasted, and all the more so when you have spent all day poking about in the woods and have the satisfaction of a good haul or some particularly fortunate find.
Couple of culinary tips-a teaspoon or so of dried, powdered fly agaric is a fantastic flavour enhancer for meat dishes, it brings out the savoury flavour the japs call 'umami', but it must be dried over a long, low heat in the oven first, to decompose the toxic ibotenic acid into muscimol, doesn't need much for use as a spice, and the peppery bolete, Chalciporus piperatus (formely known as Boletus piperatus) which grows in association with silver birch trees, as does the fly agaric, can be used similarly to pepper, or chilli, but it has a unique fire all of its own, prepare by slicing off the pores, and discarding the stem, pores won't dry, just turn to slime, too full of moisture, and the stems are tough, both harmless though, merely undesirable, and use the flesh of the cap, after the pores are removed, slice thinly to dry them out, I remove the surface skin of the cap also, cleans them up of any muck, leaves etc, slice thinly and air dry. Grind/shred finely once dry. Good with a pinch or two sprinkled on a steak while its cooking, in the marinade/sauce, added to chilli, on sausages or meat stews. Never tried it on chicken or fish, but certainly no harm in trying things out. Dried morels go fantastic when rehydrated and used in beef dishes cooked in the gravy, or beef stew, but when preparing the fiddly buggers, they are hollow inside, cut open and examine pick out any bugs, slugs, etc, and the same needs doing with the honeycombed 'caps'
Just a couple of personal cooking tips I have tested out over the years
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tiggerific
Bluelighter
^^ wow thanks for that.
I only pick the ones I know and have done the spore tests for those I am pretty sure of and once they come back all good to go I keep a note of where I found them for later. Really think I will look out one of those mushroom picking courses now.
Very true about not relying on old wives tales in regards to mushrooms, but at the same time it would also be interesting to know if there is any truth in it.
If you peel an apple on hallowe'en in front of a mirror by candlelight, you will get the initial of the person you are going to marry.
Also to find the sex of a baby, hold a cain with your ring on it over your bump. if it goes side to side you will have a boy and if it goes in a circular motion it will be a girl.
I only pick the ones I know and have done the spore tests for those I am pretty sure of and once they come back all good to go I keep a note of where I found them for later. Really think I will look out one of those mushroom picking courses now.
Very true about not relying on old wives tales in regards to mushrooms, but at the same time it would also be interesting to know if there is any truth in it.
If you peel an apple on hallowe'en in front of a mirror by candlelight, you will get the initial of the person you are going to marry.
Also to find the sex of a baby, hold a cain with your ring on it over your bump. if it goes side to side you will have a boy and if it goes in a circular motion it will be a girl.
Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
Bugger all use sticking silver spoons in the cooking pot, apart from stirring your dinner.
Silver is useful for testing for one poison though, but not from a mushroom, but hydrogen sulfide gas, a 'blood agent', that has a similar end result to cyanide poisoning, the stuff that gives rotten eggs their smell, blackens silver by forming its sulfide. I used that actually not long ago, to test some buttons I found in a dumpster, that were real heavy, and looked like possibly silver.
Exposed one, moistened with a little water, to hydrogen sulfide, and it indeed turned greyish-black, which is sweet, free Ag, in a skip of all places, some other hallmarked stuff too, all pretty old
As for the cap peeling thing, that is a total myth, some very edible fungi have unpeelable caps, morels, puffballs, polypores don't even HAVE one, plenty of good food peels, large boletes and the slippery jack bolete are two of my favourites, both NEED peeling to deprive them of a surface layer of slime, many edibles do not, and the death cap and friends do, as do many others.
I would give the silver one a test to be sure, SOMEWHERE I have a dried specimen of Galerina autumnalis hanging about, but buggered if I know where it is...my bedroom is a mess at the moment and needs a brutal desoxypipradrol-fuelled tidying
Nobody is putting a coin in my ring either...'hey doc, will I be ok?...just come back in two weeks and let me know if you notice any change in your faeces'
Silver is useful for testing for one poison though, but not from a mushroom, but hydrogen sulfide gas, a 'blood agent', that has a similar end result to cyanide poisoning, the stuff that gives rotten eggs their smell, blackens silver by forming its sulfide. I used that actually not long ago, to test some buttons I found in a dumpster, that were real heavy, and looked like possibly silver.
Exposed one, moistened with a little water, to hydrogen sulfide, and it indeed turned greyish-black, which is sweet, free Ag, in a skip of all places, some other hallmarked stuff too, all pretty old
As for the cap peeling thing, that is a total myth, some very edible fungi have unpeelable caps, morels, puffballs, polypores don't even HAVE one, plenty of good food peels, large boletes and the slippery jack bolete are two of my favourites, both NEED peeling to deprive them of a surface layer of slime, many edibles do not, and the death cap and friends do, as do many others.
I would give the silver one a test to be sure, SOMEWHERE I have a dried specimen of Galerina autumnalis hanging about, but buggered if I know where it is...my bedroom is a mess at the moment and needs a brutal desoxypipradrol-fuelled tidying
Nobody is putting a coin in my ring either...'hey doc, will I be ok?...just come back in two weeks and let me know if you notice any change in your faeces'
heres another pregnancy one.
take a hair from a pregnant womans head. (must be longer than just a few inches.) take the hair and loop it thru a ring pref. her wedding ring if she got one, and then hold both ends of the hair between your fingers, so that the ring is hanging from the hair like necklace.
then take the ring and hold it over the pregnant womans belly, or wrist/palm (theres 2 versions of it that ive heard one says hand one says belly) and hold it very still. the ring will start to move. if it moves back and forth like the thing on a grandfather clock its a boy, if it swings in a circular motion its a girl.
Funny thing is I seen this done and it was always right. One time I did it, this old lady at my beauty parlor was showin me it and just explainin to me wat to do, I had no idea wat i was doing or wat to expect, or about which motion means wat, so I was a unbiased observer u feel me. So i couldnt have did it consciously to try and make it swing one way or the other, but anyways, I followed her instructions for wat to do then i held real still with it in my hand and then it just started to swing on its own. And it ended up predicting it right.
sure sure I know, a 50 50 chance, 1 out of 2 the odds are pretty good, and it will be right enough times that people will only remmeber the times it was right and not the times it was wrong, so they get the idea that its true, bla bla bla, I know all that shit but its still interesting to me and its fun to do anyways.
and just for the record, You gotta hold it really steady tho. you cant swing it on your own or nothin like that. you hold it completely still, it will swing on its own, you cant put none of your own motion or influence into it or its cheatin.
Ill think of some more but for now thats the one that popped into my head first.
Oh yea, another one--
Put a cup of water at the foot of your bed at night to protect yourself from evil. when you wake up in the morning all the bubbles you see in the water are the bad spirits that tried to pass over you while you slept, the water traps them and makes it so they cant bother you, cause bad dreams, etc.
That aint your average style old wives tale tho, it was told to me by somebody i knew who practices santeria, so i guess its a old wives tale for them but I never heard that as one of the general usual ones that most white americans would know of or repeat.
take a hair from a pregnant womans head. (must be longer than just a few inches.) take the hair and loop it thru a ring pref. her wedding ring if she got one, and then hold both ends of the hair between your fingers, so that the ring is hanging from the hair like necklace.
then take the ring and hold it over the pregnant womans belly, or wrist/palm (theres 2 versions of it that ive heard one says hand one says belly) and hold it very still. the ring will start to move. if it moves back and forth like the thing on a grandfather clock its a boy, if it swings in a circular motion its a girl.
Funny thing is I seen this done and it was always right. One time I did it, this old lady at my beauty parlor was showin me it and just explainin to me wat to do, I had no idea wat i was doing or wat to expect, or about which motion means wat, so I was a unbiased observer u feel me. So i couldnt have did it consciously to try and make it swing one way or the other, but anyways, I followed her instructions for wat to do then i held real still with it in my hand and then it just started to swing on its own. And it ended up predicting it right.
sure sure I know, a 50 50 chance, 1 out of 2 the odds are pretty good, and it will be right enough times that people will only remmeber the times it was right and not the times it was wrong, so they get the idea that its true, bla bla bla, I know all that shit but its still interesting to me and its fun to do anyways.
and just for the record, You gotta hold it really steady tho. you cant swing it on your own or nothin like that. you hold it completely still, it will swing on its own, you cant put none of your own motion or influence into it or its cheatin.
Ill think of some more but for now thats the one that popped into my head first.
Oh yea, another one--
Put a cup of water at the foot of your bed at night to protect yourself from evil. when you wake up in the morning all the bubbles you see in the water are the bad spirits that tried to pass over you while you slept, the water traps them and makes it so they cant bother you, cause bad dreams, etc.
That aint your average style old wives tale tho, it was told to me by somebody i knew who practices santeria, so i guess its a old wives tale for them but I never heard that as one of the general usual ones that most white americans would know of or repeat.
rachamim
Bluelighter
<No Drug Discussion in See SO Guidelines Please >
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Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
<Please See SO Guidelines- No Drug Talk>
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Perpetual Indulgence
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2004
- Messages
- 20,518
- if you cross your eyes they will stick like that
- sitting too close to the tv or reading in poor light is harmful to your vision
- if your ears are burning, someone is talking about you
- drinking a pint of much lemon gin will make you go blind
- if you get the chills when it is not cold, someone is walking over your future grave
dankstersauce
Bluelighter
Can I just do it until I need glasses?
ocean
Bluelight Crew
Bumpity
tiggerific
Bluelighter
there are ones such as never trust someone who's eyebrows meet in the middle never trust someone who has a athin upper lip
people with lank hair ar cunning
people with curly hair are fun
people with long hair have inner strength
people who have dimples are said to have the devil within
love this thread :D
people with lank hair ar cunning
people with curly hair are fun
people with long hair have inner strength
people who have dimples are said to have the devil within
love this thread :D
Wolfmans_BrothEr
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2011
- Messages
- 903
Getting shitted on by a bird is good luck...you figure that one out
An apple a day keeps the doctor away
An apple a day keeps the doctor away
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