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Stimulants Old School Speed.

Anthem Acid

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
141
This question is more for the oldhead (like, really old heads.) but anyone that knows is obviously free to and encouraged to answer.

We always hear about people like Hitler and JFK being addicted to "amphetamines" or "speed". And in music, specifically country. you hear about guys like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings being heavily addicted to greenies or "speed".

So my question is, what were they taking? Were they doing pharmacy meth like Desoxyn? Was it adderall or dex or one of those offshoots? I'm particularly interested in Cash and Jennings and the speed of the late 60's to the mid 80's.
 
It woulda been dex Wich were called white crosses and also black beauties Wich contained Biphetamine (were similar to today's adderal those were both used in the 60s-80s
 
Huh. I figured.

They must have been abusing those things heavily in order for them to affect their lives the way they did. Popped them like candy.
 
This question is more for the oldhead (like, really old heads.) but anyone that knows is obviously free to and encouraged to answer.

We always hear about people like Hitler and JFK being addicted to "amphetamines" or "speed". And in music, specifically country. you hear about guys like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings being heavily addicted to greenies or "speed".

So my question is, what were they taking? Were they doing pharmacy meth like Desoxyn? Was it adderall or dex or one of those offshoots? I'm particularly interested in Cash and Jennings and the speed of the late 60's to the mid 80's.

Hitler used was given daily Methamphetamine IV by his physician.
I do not know if it was dissolved Pervitin tablets or pure Racemic Methamphetamine.
 
Hitler was using Pervitin, i.e. pharmaceutical methamphetamine... among a shitload of other uppers (caffeine, cocaine, nikethamide...) and downers (barbiturates, oxycodone, protassium bromide...). In the post-war era, popular stims of the time were phenmetrazine ("preludin"; John Lennon was heavily into those), amfetaminil ("Aponeuron"; an amphetamine prodrug) and fenethylline ("Captagon"; another amphetamine prodrug, now infamous for its use by Middle Easters jihadists). Oh, and of course speed, which in Europe refers to black-market amphetamine.

Over in the US, people were more partial to pharmaceutical amphetamine, commonly sold as inhalers in its racemic form ("benzedrine"), as well as enantiopure d-amphetamine ("dexedrine"), commonly sold as extended-release "spansules". Methamphetamine was available as the weight-loss drug "Obetrol" and later the ADD drug "Desoxyn", as well as a prodrug called benzphetamine ("Didrex", popular with truckers due to its insanely long half-life), but it seems like meth was generally more popular on the black market, to the point where "speed" would become synonymous with meth, as opposed to plain amphetamine.
 
This question is more for the oldhead (like, really old heads.) but anyone that knows is obviously free to and encouraged to answer.

We always hear about people like Hitler and JFK being addicted to "amphetamines" or "speed". And in music, specifically country. you hear about guys like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings being heavily addicted to greenies or "speed".

So my question is, what were they taking? Were they doing pharmacy meth like Desoxyn? Was it adderall or dex or one of those offshoots? I'm particularly interested in Cash and Jennings and the speed of the late 60's to the mid 80's.

It was the German brand of methamphetamine Pervitin (3 mg) -- the "per" meaning some kind of oxygen atom (like peroxide, Percodnn, Permorfid, Permonid and so forth. They mixed it with 5 mg of C-Jam and 5 mg Oxy to make a drug called D-IX which they gave to mini-submarine pilots but decided not the use it because none of the pilots came back up.

There is a book all about this by Normal Ohler called Blitzed: Drugs In The Third Reich, a very good translation of Der Totale Rausch: Drogen Im Dritten Reich
 
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Methamphetamine's been around about 100 years now, created by a japanese guy using the red phosphorous and iodine reduction method.
 

So it is coming thus year -- I hope it is not too late

The other ones coming up soon are:
Hydrocodone -- Mannich and Löwenheim -- c.a. 15. February 1920
Hydromorphone -- Lab at Knoll AG -- 4. April 1922

then there is;
Morphine -- Friedrich Wilhelm Adam Sertürner -- traditionally given as sometime in December 1803
Oxycodone -- Speyer & Freud, U of Frankfurt -- 17. November 1916
Oxymorphone -- 23. April 1914
 
Holy Hell, guys. Thanks.

So would it be wise to guess that on any given night, they could have been popping any variety of amphetamine/methamphetamine? Since they were so readily available to anyone? One night Dex, the next night Obetrol?

It's funny to think about guys like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings probably just doing some form of ADD meds that we give to little kids and housewives were popping meth like pez.
 
It was the German brand of methamphetamine Pervitin (3 mg) -- the "per" meaning some kind of oxygen atom (like peroxide, Percodnn, Permorfid, Permonid and so forth.

The prefix "per-" isn't strictly related to oxygen, an element which isn't even present in methamphetamine... the Latin "per-" prefix means that a quality of an object or action is even more intense than normal, so per-oxide means that a molecule contains even more oxygen than a normal oxide (with the "per-oxo" often shortened to just "per" in chemical names), while "per-codan" means that the molecule is based on codeine, but significantly stronger in its pain-killing properties (after all, permonid is a trade name for desomorphine, i.e. morphine with less oxygen.. likewise, methamphetamine is desoxy-ephedrine).

Consequently, I would say the name "per-vitin" is supposed to suggest that the drug makes one feel full of life ("per-" + "vita").

They mixed it with 5 mg of C-Jam and 5 mg Oxy to make a drug called D-IX which they gave to mini-submarine pilots but decided not the use it because none of the pilots came back up.

The "Neger" mini-subs were borderline kamikaze units, intended to have the pilot release the torpedo and get out at the last moment. If the D-IX endowed the pilot with the courage to carry out an actual suicide attack, it probably wouldn't have been unwelcome.

I mean, ffs, the damn mini-sub was named "negro", and it was built by white supremacists. Sure, you could argue that this was just a play on the name of its designer, Richard Mohr ("Mohr" being another word for "negro" in German), but being the butt of an inside joke doesn't exactly inspire confidence either.
 
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For Cash: his arrest at the Mexican border was for importation of Dexedrine capsules (so probably Spansules, i.e. d-amphetamine 15mg CR) and Equanil tablets (meprobamate, probably 400mg).

For Jerry Lee Lewis: retrospectively, he said his favorite was Desbutal (d-methamphetamine + pentobarbital [aka Nembutal]; for the IR version, it was 5mg meth and 30mg pentobarb, while for the CR "Gradumets," it was either 10 or 15mg meth and 60 or 90mg pentobarb, respectively).

I don't know specficially for Waylon Jennings (other than the fact that cocaine seemed to replace them for him by the mid-70s), but in general, Dexedrine was one of the widest prescribed as 5mg IR tablets or 15mg Spansules, as was Dexamyl (d-amp + amobarb, similar to Desbutal), also in IR and Spansule formats, and similar ones like Eskatrol (which combined d-amp with prochlorperazine, a sedating antispsychotic).

These were also the ones that lasted the longest into the 70s and 80s, in terms of actually being prescribed, along with Biphetamine capsules (a 12hr CR 50:50 combo of amphetamine and d-amphetamine in 7.5/12.5/20mg -- essentially Adderall XR with a longer duration due to the propietary CR mechanism), which were known as "Black Beauties."

Black Beauties were one of the more common forms of pharmaceutical speed sold by pill dealers on the street in NYC at least into the early 80s, though some were probably counterfeit or bunk at the point (like Ludes). Legally manufactured "lookalike" Black Beauties (sold in the back of High Times etc.) containing high doses of PPA+ephedrine+caffeine became a problem in the 80s, when a number of people had strokes from popping a few of them, when that amount of amphetamine would've been in authentic Black Beauties would've been basically harmless.

While pharmaceutical Benzedrine ("bennies," i.e. racemic amphetamine in 10mg tablets) may have been around in the earlier days (say, the Hank Williams era), it was largely displaced by Dexedrine from what I can gather, but illicitly-diverted or-produced "White Crosses" (containing racemic amphetamine, hopefully, rather than ephedrine/PPA/caffeine) were one of the earlier forms of black-market speed.

Pharmaceutical methamphetamine was also prescribed during the 50s-60s, with the injectable Methedrine ampoules (used most notably/notoriously by Lenny Bruce) being the first to be restricted starting in the early 60s, but Desoxyn (tablets and Gradumets) and the combination drugs remained relativey common throughout the 1960s. However, they were increasingly stigmatized and the hardcore "A-heads" of the late 60s mostly used black-market crystal methamphetamine that was made in illicit labs, setting the standard for later generations after Rx methamphetamine dwindled during the 70s. Obetrol was reformulated from a 50% d-meth, 50% racemic amphetamine combination, to a 50% d-amp, 50% racemic combination in the early 70s; in the new formulation (sold as 10mg and 20mg IR tablets), you have the precise formula of today's Adderall, which is what Obetrol was rebranded in the mid-90s after being purchased by a different company and approved for ADHD.

Elvis was prescribed Preludin (phenmetrazine) among other things, which was very popular in Sweden in the 60s (and which the Beatles took during their residencies in Hamburg during the early 60s) and as an IV drug in some parts of the US. Other diet pills like Bontril (phendimetrazine) and Tenuate (diethylpropion) stuck around longer into the 70s/80s. Ritalin was also present throughout the period, and was also favored by injectors, and more common in the Black community than other types of speed.
 
The prefix "per-" isn't strictly related to oxygen, an element which isn't even present in methamphetamine... the Latin "per-" prefix means that a quality of an object or action is even more intense than normal, so per-oxide means that a molecule contains even more oxygen than a normal oxide (with the "per-oxo" often shortened to just "per" in chemical names), while "per-codan" means that the molecule is based on codeine, but significantly stronger in its pain-killing properties (after all, permonid is a trade name for desomorphine, i.e. morphine with less oxygen.. likewise, methamphetamine is desoxy-ephedrine).
That makes more sense -- I doubted that Temmler or any other pharmaceutical concern would put out a product based on the word Pervers (pervert) which is probably coming from the same folks who say that methadone was named Dolophine after Hitler. Most or all of the methamphetamine syntheses have redox reactions as a central part, do they not?
 
The prefix "per-" isn't strictly related to oxygen, an element which isn't even present in methamphetamine... the Latin "per-" prefix means that a quality of an object or action is even more intense than normal, so per-oxide means that a molecule contains even more oxygen than a normal oxide (with the "per-oxo" often shortened to just "per" in chemical names), while "per-codan" means that the molecule is based on codeine, but significantly stronger in its pain-killing properties (after all, permonid is a trade name for desomorphine, i.e. morphine with less oxygen.. likewise, methamphetamine is desoxy-ephedrine).

Consequently, I would say the name "per-vitin" is supposed to suggest that the drug makes one feel full of life ("per-" + "vita").



The "Neger" mini-subs were borderline kamikaze units, intended to have the pilot release the torpedo and get out at the last moment. If the D-IX endowed the pilot with the courage to carry out an actual suicide attack, it probably wouldn't have been unwelcome.

I mean, ffs, the damn mini-sub was named "negro", and it was built by white supremacists. Sure, you could argue that this was just a play on the name of its designer, Richard Mohr ("Mohr" being another word for "negro" in German), but being the butt of an inside joke doesn't exactly inspire confidence either.

The other mini-submarine for which D-IX was used was called the Biber, for beaver, both an animal and a name for a body part which was already current in 1930s Viennese and Styrian dialect at least, presumably they heard about it up north too because the idiom/technical jargon term appears to have emerged almost simultaneously in many languages during the 1920s . . . I actually wondered when I heard of Justin Bieber the musician if it was a clever double or treble entendre stage name/non de guerre, like "I will just put my Blue-Veined Custard Chucker in your beaver, my love" a hauntingly beautiful alternative wedding vow, as the name is either a partial anglicisation or much more likely Schwyzerdütsch or Alemannic dialect.
 
For Cash: his arrest at the Mexican border was for importation of Dexedrine capsules (so probably Spansules, i.e. d-amphetamine 15mg CR) and Equanil tablets (meprobamate, probably 400mg).

For Jerry Lee Lewis: retrospectively, he said his favorite was Desbutal (d-methamphetamine + pentobarbital [aka Nembutal]; for the IR version, it was 5mg meth and 30mg pentobarb, while for the CR "Gradumets," it was either 10 or 15mg meth and 60 or 90mg pentobarb, respectively).

I don't know specficially for Waylon Jennings (other than the fact that cocaine seemed to replace them for him by the mid-70s), but in general, Dexedrine was one of the widest prescribed as 5mg IR tablets or 15mg Spansules, as was Dexamyl (d-amp + amobarb, similar to Desbutal), also in IR and Spansule formats, and similar ones like Eskatrol (which combined d-amp with prochlorperazine, a sedating antispsychotic).

These were also the ones that lasted the longest into the 70s and 80s, in terms of actually being prescribed, along with Biphetamine capsules (a 12hr CR 50:50 combo of amphetamine and d-amphetamine in 7.5/12.5/20mg -- essentially Adderall XR with a longer duration due to the propietary CR mechanism), which were known as "Black Beauties."

Black Beauties were one of the more common forms of pharmaceutical speed sold by pill dealers on the street in NYC at least into the early 80s, though some were probably counterfeit or bunk at the point (like Ludes). Legally manufactured "lookalike" Black Beauties (sold in the back of High Times etc.) containing high doses of PPA+ephedrine+caffeine became a problem in the 80s, when a number of people had strokes from popping a few of them, when that amount of amphetamine would've been in authentic Black Beauties would've been basically harmless.

While pharmaceutical Benzedrine ("bennies," i.e. racemic amphetamine in 10mg tablets) may have been around in the earlier days (say, the Hank Williams era), it was largely displaced by Dexedrine from what I can gather, but illicitly-diverted or-produced "White Crosses" (containing racemic amphetamine, hopefully, rather than ephedrine/PPA/caffeine) were one of the earlier forms of black-market speed.

Pharmaceutical methamphetamine was also prescribed during the 50s-60s, with the injectable Methedrine ampoules (used most notably/notoriously by Lenny Bruce) being the first to be restricted starting in the early 60s, but Desoxyn (tablets and Gradumets) and the combination drugs remained relativey common throughout the 1960s. However, they were increasingly stigmatized and the hardcore "A-heads" of the late 60s mostly used black-market crystal methamphetamine that was made in illicit labs, setting the standard for later generations after Rx methamphetamine dwindled during the 70s. Obetrol was reformulated from a 50% d-meth, 50% racemic amphetamine combination, to a 50% d-amp, 50% racemic combination in the early 70s; in the new formulation (sold as 10mg and 20mg IR tablets), you have the precise formula of today's Adderall, which is what Obetrol was rebranded in the mid-90s after being purchased by a different company and approved for ADHD.

Elvis was prescribed Preludin (phenmetrazine) among other things, which was very popular in Sweden in the 60s (and which the Beatles took during their residencies in Hamburg during the early 60s) and as an IV drug in some parts of the US. Other diet pills like Bontril (phendimetrazine) and Tenuate (diethylpropion) stuck around longer into the 70s/80s. Ritalin was also present throughout the period, and was also favored by injectors, and more common in the Black community than other types of speed.

God Damn. Helluva response, brother. Thank you.
 
Hitler was using Pervitin, i.e. pharmaceutical methamphetamine

I get a giant chuckle every time I see that one of the early brand names for meth is pervitin. =D Seeing as how it's so hypersexual.
 
I was a child of the 70s and the speed that was around the most was white crosses, black beauties and what we called Christmas trees. One or the other would pop up from time to time, yum yum!
 
Lots of good info here already. I second the book Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany if anyone has a specific curiosity about Hitler's drug use along with the SS and the general public of Nazi Germany. They were straight up selling Pervitin OTC to regular civilians at the time because it pushed the idea of Nazi Germany being strong and efficient. I honestly find it very interesting just how much the drugs of choice in a particular culture say about it.

As for Elvis I am pretty sure one of the many drugs he was scripted was Dexedrine. Here's a supposed scan of one of his scripts which includes it, although I can't vouch for its authenticity:

16772

As for "white crosses" funnily enough one of my mates uses that slang for Amfexa brand dex because of how the pills look:

j7t77lgv2td21.jpg
 
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