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Of what value is faith?

voxmystic

voxmystic

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I'm not talking about the validity of anything one might have faith in, but simply of faith itself. Is it helpful? Harmful? Both? Or just a pretty distraction? If you have faith in, say, a religion, and it turns out to be rubbish, was it still worth it? What say you, BL philosophers?
 
Its a tool designed like any tools, with options towards its use; like a hammer used to help build a house or smash a head in.
The harmful directions we take in life is a result of various choices made through life that are lead using no faith or perversion of faith, extremism.
It could also be used to heal the masses n make them all attune into their own self awareness n appreciation of our position in life.
Choice is yours.
 
strength. faith is irreducable, if you have it, you absolutely have it.

hope is similar
 
Its a tool designed like any tools, with options towards its use; like a hammer used to help build a house or smash a head in.
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the instrumentalization of faith is the destruction of faith... we live in a culture where everything needs to have a purpose-to-an-end... everything needs to be incorporated in a proces with results: science, technology, capitalism, the distribution of jobs and people... one has the slightest clue how self-destructive this offspin of modern autonomy is. One thinks one is the origin and determiner of all values but human life finds only less and less real values.
 
Faith (in the religious context) is destructive and immature. It is anti-science, anti-inquiry and anti-progress.

Nothing is further removed from dialectic and the scientific method than faith. It prescribes and endorses primitive, unquestioning and categorical acceptance of things we have no right to believe, and indeed a duty to reject.

Faith is for children.
 
suessmayr said:
Faith is for children.
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Do you have faith in your SO? Are you faithful to them?

Nothing is further removed from dialectic and the scientific method than faith. It prescribes and endorses primitive, unquestioning and categorical acceptance of things we have no right to believe, and indeed a duty to reject.
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There is more to life than the scientific method. If we relied entirely on rationality, then we'd all kill ourselves. It's the only philosophical/rational certainty.
 
^Exactly. It's no surprise to me that people who tend to have higher IQs are also more depressed. That means there is some value in not doing ALL things logically.

Pure materialism is the surest path to madness.

suessmayr said:
Faith (in the religious context) is destructive and immature. It is anti-science, anti-inquiry and anti-progress.

Nothing is further removed from dialectic and the scientific method than faith. It prescribes and endorses primitive, unquestioning and categorical acceptance of things we have no right to believe, and indeed a duty to reject.

Faith is for children.
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That's exactly why it's such a beautiful thing. You couldn't have given faith a better compliment if you tried.

BTW, I THRIVE on contradictions. I think they are one of the most important aspects of a person's mental growth. They make you stop and think for a second or eight time about something, only a fool would go "all in" to one direction or the other, but the beautiful contrast between faith and science is what makes humanity such a wonderful experience.
 
i do not believe in faith because faith is something that is not proven or cant be proven real.. all you can do is HOPE that what you believe in is real ..have faith
like Santa, tooth fairy and the Easter bunny

it is a word that has been used and manipulated buy religious leaders . faith is putting your trust in someone or something . its never a forsure

Complete trust or confidence in someone or something
- this restores one's faith in politicians

Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof

A system of religious belief
- the Christian faith

A strongly held belief or theory
- the faith that life will expand until it fills the universe
 
^I like your point about how faith as a word has been manipulated by the powers that be, not only that, but it is just a word, in and of itself. But hope is no less a manipulative a word than faith, though it might have a less evil track record of being used to control large crowds.

I like that you point out not putting too much stock in words, as they are, but the things the words were devised to represent, which are nameless. At least I think youre saying that.
I have faith, and when I say that, I don't mean I believe in god unquestioningly, I'm actually quite dubious, skeptical, or inquisitive as to the ultimate nature of reality, but I have faith that there is something more out there: something we are a part of, something that places both rationality and irrationality in their proper place. You know what I mean?
It's not a figure or a word, or set of words, that I have faith in. THAT would be totally pointless, it's just like this vague feeling that makes me perfectly fine with the inherent (or apparent) contradictions that form the fundamental fabric of our lives and universe. It makes it so I have no attachments to any one idea, nor take any of them very seriously, and I have faith in the transient life that we call our own. I am certain that I am uncertain, and that gives me a sense of wholeness. That's an attempt to put into words my beliefs.
 
L2R said:
If we relied entirely on rationality, then we'd all kill ourselves.
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:D

Why ? Just to short circuit a process maybe - I'd have thought one would simply allow the process of living to proceed - to me that would be rational. You are & you live therefore that's what you do - your purpose is to stay alive.
Beyond that biological certainty you can start to muddy the waters if you want to.

Faith can equate to hope it can equate to love, it goes without saying that to have any of these dearly held emotions disproved is upsetting, which is why some people will go to extraordinary lengths to uphold their faith even if to any sane observer the levels of hypocrisy being practiced are huge.
Even the hardcore empiricist who says "faith is for children" has some faith - in the scientific method no less - science maybe is the new religion to some instead of merely a process through which we derive answers to many physical manifestations.
Too much faith is a bad thing, too little also a bad thing.


You say you lost your faith but that's not where it's at ,
you had no faith to loose & you know it. a pointless addition to my diatribe :)
 
I find the true value of faith to be the cause of self-realization.

B9 said:
science maybe is the new religion to some instead of merely a process through which we derive answers to many physical manifestations.
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+1 :)
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
^I like your point about how faith as a word has been manipulated by the powers that be, not only that, but it is just a word, in and of itself. But hope is no less a manipulative a word than faith, though it might have a less evil track record of being used to control large crowds.

I like that you point out not putting too much stock in words, as they are, but the things the words were devised to represent, which are nameless. At least I think youre saying that.
I have faith, and when I say that, I don't mean I believe in god unquestioningly, I'm actually quite dubious, skeptical, or inquisitive as to the ultimate nature of reality, but I have faith that there is something more out there: something we are a part of, something that places both rationality and irrationality in their proper place. You know what I mean?
It's not a figure or a word, or set of words, that I have faith in. THAT would be totally pointless, it's just like this vague feeling that makes me perfectly fine with the inherent (or apparent) contradictions that form the fundamental fabric of our lives and universe. It makes it so I have no attachments to any one idea, nor take any of them very seriously, and I have faith in the transient life that we call our own. I am certain that I am uncertain, and that gives me a sense of wholeness. That's an attempt to put into words my beliefs.
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the unknown is what we know , in reality our universe along with our existence is far more advanced, complicated and amazing then we can imagine .. more then just a simple faith or a book that most go by for that matter .
i like your point of view also :)
 
B9 said:
Could you expand on that please
Click to expand...

I'll try ;)

A lack of faith leads to the questioning of everything in the pursuit of something greater then ones self, the ultimate outcome of this is the total breakdown of perceived reality and the confrontation with the great paradox of existence, there are no more shadows to hide in.. you must have faith in yourself.. this acceptance results in self-realization, the realization that there is no-thing greater then yourself.

Your faith becomes realized as you, it is the strength that remains when all is gone.
 
Faith is invaluable. Faith is what gives you and me the ability to take certain foundational things for granted and get on with our lives, without getting mired in a bottomless pit of doubt over every little thing we perceive and encounter. Right now, I'm acting on faith that you were sincere in writing your post, are actually planning on reading and digesting it, are a real live person and not a bot that scores well on the Turing test, and have a sentient mind just like mine. I cannot prove any of these things, and don't have the time, energy, or interest to invest in finding hard evidence of any them one way or another. Therefore, I take it on faith. All of us go through similar mental machinations all the time.

To take it from the micro level to the macro, all worldviews are ultimately founded on assumptions that holders of that worldview take on faith. It's just a matter of what you or anyone else is, or is not, willing to accept as if it were true.
 
The sort of faith I was pondering is the kind of faith one may or may not have in things or ideas that can never be proven. Faith in an afterlife, for instance, or faith in a supreme being, or faith in some sort of karmic justice.

Faith has been both cohesive and divisive with regard to groups of people, and may have been paramount to early human societies, but what of the impact of faith on an individual?

My grandparents were in a traffic accident that killed my grandfather, and badly injured my grandmother. She was in a coma for 4 days, and her leg and pelvis were shattered. She had 6 surgeries, was hospitalized for 8 months, and had to learn to walk again at the age of 68. She is Christian, which, until then, I had always thought was silly, and sometimes downright irritating. Seeing her go through that awful accident, though, changed my mind. She truly believed that there was a god that loved her, and wouldn't place more burden on her than she could bear. That, and her belief that she would be with Grandpa again were things that she relied on heavily during a horribly painful time. I'm not saying that she wouldn't have recovered without her faith, but having it to draw on seemed to be helpful.

So, if she dies and finds no Heaven or Hell, no reunification with deceased loved ones, etc., will it still have been valuable? Or just silly?

If she's wrong, and her faith is misplaced, then the strength she thought she drew from God was really her own.

Just one example of what makes me wonder....
 
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