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NSA surveillance thread

I was always under the impression that the NSA was monitoring America since 9/11, and especially since the Bush wiretapping laws. I didn't realize that it was technically unknown to the American people until just now, and that fact kind of saddens me.

The more I study history, the more I assume that the government is up to no good. Maybe it's that assumption which leads me to make too many unfortunate and yet accurate predictions. The security madness in the U.S. is one of the classic signs of the deterioration of a democracy. As prosperity declines, more people rely on government for handouts and for jobs. More people join the military, and security. The difference is that we now have the private sector working side by side with the government. The more jobs that are needed, the more people will be put to work invading freedoms. It's a major red flag.

Even if the NSA is reformed, the government will just keep buying the info from third parties who are monitoring members of the public who are their customers. Our info and activities are all digital now... the concept of privacy has changed immensely in the past 15 years.
 
This discussion is very much US-oriented (as the title would suggest), but it should be pointed out that the British are even more radical in their spying of their own citizens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora And they're working closely with the NSA.

Not to mention that the UK is the leading country when it comes to the abundance of CCTV cameras.
 
Once a law, the 4th amendment in this case, is bent it rarely snaps back into place. The supreme court whittled away at a persons' privacy with decision that allowed principals to search students lockers, to search employees desks, search probationers homes. and collect a persons blood and urine, all without a warrant or probable cause. All end-running the 4th amendment with a "special -need". Now eleven men, a star chamber of sorts, have decided because of a special need every digital and electronic communication should be monitored, No warrant or probable cause. A slippery-slope indeed. I don't believe the 4th amendment will ever be returned or bent back to it's original intent, being secure in your person, place. etc.
 
Foreigner said:
I was always under the impression that the NSA was monitoring America since 9/11, and especially since the Bush wiretapping laws. I didn't realize that it was technically unknown to the American people until just now, and that fact kind of saddens me.

The more I study history, the more I assume that the government is up to no good. Maybe it's that assumption which leads me to make too many unfortunate and yet accurate predictions. The security madness in the U.S. is one of the classic signs of the deterioration of a democracy. As prosperity declines, more people rely on government for handouts and for jobs. More people join the military, and security. The difference is that we now have the private sector working side by side with the government. The more jobs that are needed, the more people will be put to work invading freedoms. It's a major red flag.

Even if the NSA is reformed, the government will just keep buying the info from third parties who are monitoring members of the public who are their customers. Our info and activities are all digital now... the concept of privacy has changed immensely in the past 15 years.
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Sadly the first few years i was on BL I was ostracized in ce&p everytime i said the government's up to no good. Labeled a tin-foil hat conspiracy nut. Glad all those old MODs are gone.
 
severely etarded said:
Sadly the first few years i was on BL I was ostracized in ce&p everytime i said the government's up to no good. Labeled a tin-foil hat conspiracy nut. Glad all those old MODs are gone.
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That was before my time on bluelight so I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. In other forums, message boards, mailing lists, etc, in the mid 1990s, it was very typical for these people to call anybody who questioned the government's motives or mentioned mass surveillance a "tin-foil hat conspiracy nut" and make stupid comments like "watch out for the black helicopters." And this was after the "Clipper Chip" idiocy was widely known.

p.s.
Wake up Sheeple!
You lose!
 
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alasdairm said:
would you provide links to a handful of posts exemplifying this. if it's ad widespread as you imply, you shouldn't have much trouble finding, say, 5 examples.

alasdair
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To what end? The existence of derogitary terms like "tin foil hat wearers" and the fact that Bluelight is made up of people..proves my contention. Sheesh, sensing some serious hostility coming my way... Meh, leftists, no reasoning with them

EDIT: Just noticed the bunch of posts supporting my position - that is my answer nasty person
 
I don't think this has been posted yet - a run down on the actually revelations over the past month

How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

12 Jul 2013: Documents show company collaborated closely with NSA and FBI to help agencies intercept data

********
The Snowden video sequel and Brazil fallout

8 Jul 2013: Glenn Greenwald: The worldwide debate over US surveillance which the NSA whistleblower was eager to provoke is clearly emerging

********

The NSA's mass and indiscriminate spying on Brazilians

7 Jul 2013: Glenn Greenwald: As it does in many non-adversarial countries, the surveillance agency is bulk collecting the communications of millions of citizens of Brazil

********

NSA collected US email records in bulk for more than two years under Obama

27 Jun 2013: • Secret program launched by Bush continued 'until 2011'
• Fisa court renewed collection order every 90 days
• Current NSA programs still mine US internet metadata

********

How the NSA is still harvesting your online data

27 Jun 2013: Files show vast scale of current NSA metadata programs, with one stream alone celebrating 'one trillion records processed'

********

GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

25 June 2013 British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA

********

The top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant

20 Jun 2013: Fisa court submissions show broad scope of procedures governing NSA's surveillance of Americans' communication

********

Fisa court oversight: a look inside a secret and empty process

19 Jun 2013: Glenn Greenwald: Obama and other NSA defenders insist there are robust limitations on surveillance but the documents show otherwise

********

Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data

11 Jun 2013: Revealed: The NSA's powerful tool for cataloguing global surveillance data – including figures on US collection • Boundless Informant: mission outlined in four slides

********
Obama orders US to draw up overseas target list for cyber-attacks

7 Jun 2013: Exclusive: Top-secret directive steps up offensive cyber capabilities to 'advance US objectives around the world'

********

NSA Prism program taps in to user data of Apple, Google and others

7 Jun 2013: • Top-secret Prism program claims direct access to servers of firms including Google, Apple and Facebook


********

NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily

6 Jun 2013: Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama administration

http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/07/nsa-revelations-over-last-month.html
 
bukweat said:
Once a law, the 4th amendment in this case, is bent it rarely snaps back into place. The supreme court whittled away at a persons' privacy with decision that allowed principals to search students lockers, to search employees desks, search probationers homes. and collect a persons blood and urine, all without a warrant or probable cause. All end-running the 4th amendment with a "special -need". Now eleven men, a star chamber of sorts, have decided because of a special need every digital and electronic communication should be monitored, No warrant or probable cause. A slippery-slope indeed. I don't believe the 4th amendment will ever be returned or bent back to it's original intent, being secure in your person, place. etc.
Click to expand...

Not to mention travel highways without being pulled over for "looking like you're going a little too fast" or "driving too close to the white stripe to the right-side of the road" (cops love those here in TX; DPS/Highway Patrol loves the second I noticed local sheriff's and PD's like the first), and then searched w/o warrant based on a police-trained "K9" giving probable cause due to "odor indication" on the vehicle... Seriously? Yep. I was searched for an hour and 20 mins (no exaggeration, seriously) for "looking like" I was going to fast and then refusing consent on a search by a "K9" unit by a sheriff's department. And then basically SOL when I asked for compensation or reparation for wasting my time when they found absolutely nothing after making me stand in knee-high grass holding my pet dog in 100+ degree TX heat for all that time. Just because I happened to be on a "drug route" and have a criminal history which included--wait for it--possessing <2 oz of MX dirt weed. Yeah oh yeah they caught the "big tamale" alright... 8)
 
Mandark said:
Details about a program called XKeyscore. Rather amazing to me, I didn't realize such broad surveillance could be achieved so easily:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
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I think this whole (continuing) saga should serve to cement in the public's mind that when the potential for abuse of power exists, it's always taken. But the NSA side of the story is just one component. What about the telecom companies and ISP's who in Europe hold the data of their customers on record for months before deleting it? This info is obviously passed to the intel services, but the point is who is facilitating and setting up these arrangements?

Phone GPS data, Oyster card/public transport location data, CCTV facial recog tracking, vehicle license plate tracking, total internet information domination by the NSA/GCHQ etc, banking records. All this data is being collected and stored for analysis. We've walked straight into a technological prison, one which has been decades in the making and one which 'conspiracy theorists' were shouting about for a long time. Great :/
 
There should be a full on revolt in the U.S. already. Are you guys pushovers or what? Your government is becoming tyrannical more and more every day. What does the last straw look like? Because in many places in the world, the NSA spy program would be it.
 
Foreigner said:
There should be a full on revolt in the U.S. already. Are you guys pushovers or what? Your government is becoming tyrannical more and more every day. What does the last straw look like? Because in many places in the world, the NSA spy program would be it.
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The rest of the world, especially Europe, should be just as outraged. While the Americans are spied on by the NSA mostly illegally and this draws some criticism, it's apparently perfectly ok to spy indiscriminately on "foreigners".
 
So we're assumed guilty until proven innocent...

There doesn't seem to be enough outrage over this, the entire western world seems relatively uninterested. It's the implementation of Nudge theory at it's finest.
 
^ I think it's when you advance a condition in small increments, rather than all at once. For instance, instead of introducing draconian laws all at once, a government might implement tiny sub-draconian measures over time so as to not raise the ire of the populous.
 
From wikipedia:
Nudge theory (or Nudge) is a concept in behavioral science, political theory and economics which argues that positive reinforcement and indirect suggestions to try to achieve non-forced compliance can influence the motives, incentives and decision making of groups and individuals alike, at least as effectively – if not more effectively - than direct instruction, legislation, or enforcement.
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This just in: Snowden gets granted asylum in Russia. America mad.
 
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