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NSA surveillance thread

Most people don't really care because most people didnt even really consider this a leak as it was thought to be common knowledge that the Gov't has always been doing this. Older people can remember when certain people or groups (MLK, Black Panthers etc) were actually being tapped into. From what I gather they aren't tapping into EVERYONE'S personal conversations, just gathering numbers to see if they've been in contact with people on all the watchlist for preventitive measures correct? If so, big deal I could care less. But if it turned out some random tech like Snowden were abusing it and accessing personal shit just for a laugh, then yeah I'd be pissed. However I'd hold that person at fault for the abuse, not an administration like some people are..


Id imagine that if something were to happen and it turned out that the person that carried out the attack was in constant contact from a wanted member from our watchlist or from some hostile place in Yemen these same people that are upset would be pissed that nothing was done to prevent it.
 
paranoid android said:
It's also rather funny that the gun nut's who cry out about government intrusion into their private lives and buy up assault rifles like WW3 is going to start are saying nothing at all here where it's a clear cut case of government being as about as intrusive as possible into their private lives. But that just shows conservatives for what they are which are reactionary morons who don't give 2 fucks about their lack of freedoms as long as they have their guns. Not that Liberals are any better mind you.
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To be fair, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Matt Drudge etc. have been flipping their shit over this since last week.
 
I first caught wind of this last year, when Wired ran a cover story on a million square foot data center being built for the NSA in the middle of buttfuck Utah. They were interviewing William Binney, a former high-level NSA official turned whistle blower. He described his time with the agency after the events of 9/11 as "J Edgar Hoover on steroids." Now besides the hilarious cross dressing mental image this conjures up, it's scary to think that was ten years ago. Snowden was a low level contractor, much the same as Bradley Manning. Either the government is gracious with their security clearances or the level of privacy intrusion we're seeing is only the tip of the iceberg.

In any event, the American public will forget about this whole thing once the NBA finals are over and the San Antonio Spurs are crowned champions of the world!!!!!1
 
Max Power said:
Either the government is gracious with their security clearances or the level of privacy intrusion we're seeing is only the tip of the iceberg.
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Tip of the ice-berg 100%. It's not so much them spying on us as individuals that's the problem, it's the fact they're storing pretty much every bit of data they can get their hands on and it will be there forever. And that is what we know.. what is hidden from us is probably much larger and much further into the future, the military always runs decades ahead of public domain tech. What should worry people is the data-mining potential of having all the data there in one place, as well as the potential to destroy an individuals life based on past data history by going back into the past an exposing something. The data-mining is more worrying though.. seeing trends and patterns by running the data through super computers (or AI computers) and using this to manipulate populations. Minority report on a nationwide scale.
 
23536 said:
To be fair, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Matt Drudge etc. have been flipping their shit over this since last week.
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Yes but that's only because their people are not in control of the government right now. Those fucking clowns wouldn't know how to spell freedom ffs
 
paranoid android said:
And it's exactly this fucking attitude that let's the government get away with this shit. They love apathetic people who care nothing about trivial things such as politics and freedom.
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People are free to not use pay services that are not bound to any universal moral truth. The data collected will probably be used for big crimes, like investigating murders, organized drug running, and the occasional terrorist group's homeland activities.

I know there has been some talk about the information being used against individuals for political or finanacial reasons, but I don't see the system being proposed from such a paranoid and nihilistic perspective.

Our nation was essentially founded by rule breakers, and low end drug users probably have little to worry about in the greater scheme of things.

Although rudely put, I tend to agree with Police Detective when he states that many of us aren't that important. The government doesn't really care that you pack and smoke a bowl of high grade marijuana every night before you go to sleep.

Code words and phrases are easily created to work around texts being saved by the bigger providers and turned over to the government for storage and later data mining.
 
Noodle said:
People are free to not use pay services that are not bound to any universal moral truth. The data collected will probably be used for big crimes, like investigating murders, organized drug running, and the occasional terrorist group's homeland activities.

I know there has been some talk about the information being used against individuals for political or finanacial reasons, but I don't see the system being proposed from such a paranoid and nihilistic perspective.

Our nation was essentially founded by rule breakers, and low end drug users probably have little to worry about in the greater scheme of things.

Although rudely put, I tend to agree with Police Detective when he states that many of us aren't that important. The government doesn't really care that you pack and smoke a bowl of high grade marijuana every night before you go to sleep.

Code words and phrases are easily created to work around texts being saved by the bigger providers and turned over to the government for storage and later data mining.
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That is hardly the point. The point is that the government is using constant surveillance on it's own citizens. The same fuckers supporting this bullshit would be the same ones up in arms about it if it happened in a country that did not fit into the nice model of western democracy. So they are not only apathetic but also hypocritical.

I know low level drug users or pushers have little to fear from this but the fact that the government is doing it and getting away with it is what makes it so fucked up. Plus it won't stop any terrorist attacks as it will only work after the fact. I guess it gives people who want a nanny state comfort to know that the government is watching everybody.
 
And what do you propose to do about it besides wine about it on a vB messege board?

If you can do nothing about it except comment on the unethical nature of the entire problem without a solution then why really care at all?

I see it this way: It is happening. And, you or I--as individuals--will not be able to do anything about it except make our own informed choices regarding how and what we communicate via digital means and services.
 
And what do you propose to do about it besides wine about it on a vB messege board?
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Sign a few petitions, maybe write a letter to congress and click on news stories about this. So long as people are reading the news about this, the media gets ratings and keeps covering it.

Small fry have little to worry about. You are just not that important people. Get over yourselves.
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Unchecked authority is very dangerous. Doctors will cover up their mistakes if nobody looks over their shoulder, police officers will alter reports to facilitate convictions, politicians will lie to our faces if the media doesn't scrutinize them. I highly doubt you are that naive. Checks and balances are annoying, sure, but they keep us all behaving.
 
Noodle said:
And what do you propose to do about it besides wine about it on a vB messege board?

If you can do nothing about it except comment on the unethical nature of the entire problem without a solution then why really care at all?

I see it this way: It is happening. And, you or I--as individuals--will not be able to do anything about it except make our own informed choices regarding how and what we communicate via digital means and services.
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Well i don't live in the US for starters but it just pisses me off. I would be more then willing to do something about it if more individuals where willing to do so. I don't know if the Canadian government has anything like this going as they are even more secretive then the Americans and the Canadian public are more apathetic.

It only takes a spark to start a prairie fire and a relatively small group could change things for the better. The best thing that could happen would be to have more heavy handed measures like this happen as people are only going to react to this when it starts affecting them. If they push it to far the people will react. Granted it still mystifies me why some people think America or Canada are democracies. What the US government is doing now is not much different then what the Stasi did in East Germany. And if you think they are going to stop at this you are deluded as governments never give up power willingly they only want more power.

As for choosing different services wtf are we supposed to do go back to using pay phones? All phone companies will give into the government so i don't see much of a choice there.

And believe me if i had the explosives i would be more then willing to implement some political changes ;) . If only i had the C-4 :(
 
Seems like the media broadcast is now being used to divert focus away from the data mining itself, and onto drama involving the whistleblower guy Snowden.
 
^The fact that Snowden is in possession of some sensitive information regarding our national security, fled to China, and has now disappeared is a separate issue and should be a cause for concern for all Americans.

The whole PRISM thing is upsetting for plenty of Americans, but I'm willing to bet that most people will forget about it in a few months (until it gets leaked that they're still doing it in a few years). This is because as terrible as it is that our government is spying on us, it doesn't really effect peoples day to day lives noticeably. Most people will realize that they don't actually care that much.
 
Ondine said:
^The fact that Snowden is in possession of some sensitive information regarding our national security, fled to China, and has now disappeared is a separate issue and should be a cause for concern for all Americans.

The whole PRISM thing is upsetting for plenty of Americans, but I'm willing to bet that most people will forget about it in a few months (until it gets leaked that they're still doing it in a few years). This is because as terrible as it is that our government is spying on us, it doesn't really effect peoples day to day lives noticeably. Most people will realize that they don't actually care that much.
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Do you really think that Snowden is in hiding or has completely disappeared from the authorities looking for him? They probably have him and are interrogating him. Most people have the attention span of gnats so they'll forget about PRISM, Snowden, the NSA, etc.
 
exists said:
^ we were waiting for you to start!
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well, mostly because i live in a small country in middle europe which has a far greater standard of living and respect for human rights than the USA. i'm not seeing this big brother thing getting big here, but what worries me is the amount of digital communication that flows through USA servers. they try to have the whole world under their surverillance.

some people need to read orwell's 1984 in my opinion. i'm really seeing some analogies there.
 
Bagseed said:
well, mostly because i live in a small country in middle europe which has a far greater standard of living and respect for human rights than the USA. i'm not seeing this big brother thing getting big here, but what worries me is the amount of digital communication that flows through USA servers. they try to have the whole world under their surverillance.

some people need to read orwell's 1984 in my opinion. i'm really seeing some analogies there.
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Even in your small country in Europe they also collect data about the citizens there, and that data is collected, and then either sold or bartered to other countries. ALL governments worldwide do this and have done this for a very long time. They don't just collect only phone records; but records of pretty much everything.
 
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There's an EU law that requires nations to collect and store 6 months worth of phone and internet data if i'm not mistaken. I'm sure it gets passed straight on to the intelligence services and added to the mixer. Not sure if it's been reformed or not, but there was a TED talk about a german guy and his mobile phone company.. he took them to court and settled when they sent him all the data. Always reminded of the line in the film 'enemy of the state'.. "the more technology you use, the easier it is to keep tabs on you".
 
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