Novel Beta Keto Phenethylamines

[/navarone/]

Fuck it. Just make beta-keto-PEAs. Figure out a way to make large quantities without forming the dimer in the process. If khat can do it, then you can do it.

As i said above beta ketos are very polar and have some more difficulty in crossing the BB than other peas, amphetamines thta is because the keto group is preetty lipophobic and the ether/MD group is more lipophilic.

Khat sux as a drug cause of this reason and also it is much more easely converted into a beta hydroxy PEA (like ephedrine) even before reacing the brain.
That is why methcathinone is much more efficent as a adrenergic stimulant, the methyl makes the molecule a bit more lipophilic and crosses the BBB less tediously.

I had some ponders about switching the keto with a sulphur..which would slow down a lot the metabolic process that eventually turns it into a hydroxy, though at the moment I am pretty ignorant on the lipohpilicity of double bonded sulphurs and their pros and cons compared to other common beta ketos.

On Wiki I've read many articles about thio analogues of phenylmethoxy amphetamines (mostly created by our beloved Shulgin) and in most cases the reports tell that this substitution causes stronger but more unpleasdant side effects.

 

[vecktor]

Then why doesn't this happend with MDXX?
.

because this is attached through an aliphatic hydroxy /carbon whereas MDXX is attached through aromatic/ phenolic hydroxy.

FWIW beta keto 2-cb has been made and assayed in vitro. the metabolites of these are a concern as they are all very powerful read toxic adrenergic drugs, almost all the beta hydroxys in pihkal show undesirable side effects

 

[dread]

Why not a beta methoxy then....it is much better tollerated and has better adrenergic effects (eg: phenmetrazine).

Or even better why not 4-methyl-2,β-Methylenedioxylevoamphetamine?

That doesn't make any sense. The 2-oxygen's lone pair is pointing in the wrong direction.

 

[/navarone/]

almost all the beta hydroxys in pihkal show undesirable side effects

Ow that is no news for me..or at least for my experience and assumptions.

To bad that beta halo's have a carcinogenic potential, in fact a lot of the low grade street meth made by HI/RP method, apart from cuttings and adulterants in it, isn't only meth but a mixture of (pseudo)ephedrine, (pseudo)iodoephedrine, small percentages of 2-phenyl-3-methyl-N-methylaziridine.
Maybe just the betafluoro or betametiltrifluoro are relatively less carcinerogic though it would be interesting to read some infod about them.

I'm still researching on any possible information about beta thiones. Abit bulkier than ketones bu the effects, metabolism and bioavailability could prove to be better than cathinones.

 

[/navarone/]

That doesn't make any sense. The 2-oxygen's lone pair is pointing in the wrong direction.

Wel the bottom methoxy has all the mobility it could get. I doubt that that MD constriction would neglect the psychedelic effects of 2,5-dimethoxy-PEAs.

Otherwise we could still ponder on the possible effect of a hybrid between 2-CX/DOX and phenmetrazine.

 

[Phener]

Fuck it. Just make beta-keto-PEAs. Figure out a way to make large quantities without forming the dimer in the process. If khat can do it, then you can do it.

second that. All these other options would just complicate synthesis, there has to be a stable route and stable end product salt. Wonder what occurs in khat? Probably some horrible complex plant derived polymer type structure.

 

[MurphyClox]

To bad that beta halo's have a carcinogenic potential, in fact a lot of the low grade street meth made by HI/RP method, apart from cuttings and adulterants in it, isn't only meth but a mixture of (pseudo)ephedrine, (pseudo)iodoephedrine, small percentages of 2-phenyl-3-methyl-N-methylaziridine.

WTF? I doubt this heavily.

- Murphy

 

[mad_scientist]

^^^

A paper on the old rhodium archive reports finding 2-phenyl-3-methyl-N-methylaziridine as a contaminant in street meth cooked via HI/P. 4-iodomethamphetamine too if I remember correctly. Both seemed a bit unlikely, but who knows...

 

[/navarone/]

WTF? I doubt this heavily.

- Murphy

This infor comes from an article extracted from the rhodium archive. It's a study about impurities found im meth made in clandestine labs.

Well think about it..alkylating amines need a haloalkane and in rare conditions when the cooking temperature is too elevated the iodoephedrine moleculed gets streched enough to induce and amine-halo cyclization reaction. This obviously happends only with the HI/RP method.

It's written sumwhere on some long ass document in some big ass archive and I sooo can't be fucked to go look for it but its there sumwhere..or at least in copy prompty saved by Erowid before Rhodium and the Hive got shut down.

 

[MurphyClox]

I'm in fact too tired to answer this in detail. Neither now nor later.

I already knew the mentioned article before (surprise, surprise), but consider it pointless to discuss this here. I still have my reasons to doubt the presence of this compound, but in contrary to others did I think carefully about it and did not just cite some random publication.


- Murphy

 

[phase_dancer]

I'm aware of that article. I'm pretty sure forensic chemists in Australia concluded that the aziridine was produced during the GC process. I was at a conference in 2002 on capillary electrophoresis, where this was discussed. I'm not sure if it was ever published outside of restricted journals, but I'll ask.

 

[/navarone/]

Fine lets get back on topic guys...I'm sick of talking about methcooking.

So back on Beta conjugated analogues...please.

 

[Phener]

...well always the dreaded phthalimido attachment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phthalimidopropiophenone

disappointed that the uk catch'em'all'everyone'of'em has blocked ALL beta-ketone analogues, thanks to the somewhat useless MEPH.

Was keen to see if a 5ht-2a one MIGHT be possible

I.e 2C-B (+phthalimido)

...phthalimido potentially very toxic but still if the 2c-b cathinone was low dose? maybe worth it once in a blue moon. ?? vagueling remember discussing this on bluelight, possibly a no go for some binding reason, cant remember the thread.

 

[Slapdragonx]

Phthalimidopropiophenone looks like a Pyrovalerone analog.

 

[/navarone/]

It's worth absolutely nothing anyway...

 

[Phener]

Phthalimidopropiophenone looks like a Pyrovalerone analog.

it's a form of a pro-drug, just protects the NH before being released. So adds no pharmacology itself to the compound (except it's own pharmacology once it breaks away)

 

[dread]

it's a form of a pro-drug

I thought it was disputed whether tha phtalimido group can even be actually metabolized in vivo...

 

[phase_dancer]

^ efforts by our team to simulate in-vivo hydroxylation in the lab were unsuccessful. Mechanisms have been proposed on how this might occur, but nothing has been proven afaik. A urine test for norephedrine and cathine following PAPP use is what's needed.

 

[LivingOnValium]

I'm under the impression that primary amine cathinone derivatives are very unstable and decompose easily. This would make it very unconventional to have a compound like this in a large enough stock from a vendors point of view.

 

[phase_dancer]

The phthalimidopropiophenone (intermediate in the Gabriel synthesis of primary amines) is stable enough. The amine is tertiary, so dimerization is prevented.