Opioids [Nomenclature] opioid opiate

[red22]

The use of the terms "opiate" and "opioid" requires clarification. Until the 1980s, the term "opiate" was used extensively to describe any natural or synthetic agent that was derived from morphine. One could say an opiate was any compound that was structurally related to morphine. In the mid-1970s, the discovery of peptides in the brain with pharmacologic actions similar to morphine prompted a change in nomenclature. These peptides were not easily related to morphine structurally, yet their actions were like those produced by morphine. At this time, the term "opioid," meaning opium- or morphine-like in terms of pharmacologic action, was introduced. The broad group of opium alkaloids, synthetic derivatives related to the opium alkaloids, and the many naturally occurring and synthetic peptides with morphine-like pharmacologic effects are called opioids. In addition to having pharmacologic effects similar to morphine, a compound must be antagonized by an opioid antagonist, such as naloxone, to be classed as an opioid. The neuronal-located proteins to which opioid agents bind and initiate biologic responses are called opioid receptors.

Foye's Principles of Medicinal Chemistry. Foye WO, Williams DA, Lemke TL. 2013 20. Central Analgesics / OPIATE/OPIOID, p. 663


The term "opiates" takes on a number of different meanings depending on the context in which it is used. In the strictest sense, it refers to those materials isolated from the opium poppy Papaver somniferum. The total extract is known as opium, which can be used as such, as the dry mixture of the salts (Pantopon), or as a tincture (Laudanum). The principal medically recognized component materials are morphine and its methyl ether, codeine. A number of additional alkaloids are present, probably the most valuable of which is thebaine, a chemical precursor of other active drugs. In a somewhat looser chemical sense, the term "opiates" has come to refer to those drugs derived from chemicals originating within the opium poppy. The best examples are heroin, which is a diacetyl derivative of morphine, the numerous clinically recognized members of the morphinone and codeinone group, and the less well-studied but exceptionally potent adducts of thebaine.

In the popular pharmacologic sense, the term "opiates" must be extended to embrace any drug, regardless of chemical origins, that can be substituted for morphine or heroin in abuse potential. Thus, the family is extended to embrace a host of drugs patterned after some part of the paradigm molecule, morphine, but which are totally independent of any botanical origins.

Drugs of abuse in the future. Shulgin, A. T. 1976. Clinical Toxicology, 8(4), 405–456. DOI: 10.3109/15563657508990076 OPIATES, pg. 407

 

[red22]

Also, Dilaudid was obviously derived from laudanum.

 

[fairnymph]

The use of the terms "opiate" and "opioid" requires clarification. Until the 1980s, the term "opiate" was used extensively to describe any natural or synthetic agent that was derived from morphine. One could say an opiate was any compound that was structurally related to morphine. In the mid-1970s, the discovery of peptides in the brain with pharmacologic actions similar to morphine prompted a change in nomenclature. These peptides were not easily related to morphine structurally, yet their actions were like those produced by morphine. At this time, the term "opioid," meaning opium- or morphine-like in terms of pharmacologic action, was introduced. The broad group of opium alkaloids, synthetic derivatives related to the opium alkaloids, and the many naturally occurring and synthetic peptides with morphine-like pharmacologic effects are called opioids. In addition to having pharmacologic effects similar to morphine, a compound must be antagonized by an opioid antagonist, such as naloxone, to be classed as an opioid. The neuronal-located proteins to which opioid agents bind and initiate biologic responses are called opioid receptors.

Foye's Principles of Medicinal Chemistry. Foye WO, Williams DA, Lemke TL. 2013 20. Central Analgesics, p. 663


The term "opiates" takes on a number of different meanings depending on the context in which it is used. In the strictest sense, it refers to those materials isolated from the opium poppy Papaver somniferum. The total extract is known as opium, which can be used as such, as the dry mixture of the salts (Pantopon), or as a tincture (Laudanum). The principal medically recognized component materials are morphine and its methyl ether, codeine. A number of additional alkaloids are present, probably the most valuable of which is thebaine, a chemical precursor of other active drugs. In a somewhat looser chemical sense, the term "opiates" has come to refer to those drugs derived from chemicals originating within the opium poppy. The best examples are heroin, which is a diacetyl derivative of morphine, the numerous clinically recognized members of the morphinone and codeinone group, and the less well-studied but exceptionally potent adducts of thebaine.

In the popular pharmacologic sense, the term "opiates" must be extended to embrace any drug, regardless of chemical origins, that can be substituted for morphine or heroin in abuse potential. Thus, the family is extended to embrace a host of drugs patterned after some part of the paradigm molecule, morphine, but which are totally independent of any botanical origins.

Drugs of abuse in the future. Shulgin, A. T. 1976. Clinical Toxicology, 8(4), 405–456. DOI: 10.3109/15563657508990076 OPIATES, pg. 407

I think the distinction between morphine-based opiates and synthetic opioids is pretty important personally, as with only exception of methadone, I find opioids have intolerable side effects & aren’t great for pain. Most people use the terms interchangeably though.

 

[red22]

I wonder if opiate is still even a valid term.

 

[WellTram]

I wonder if opiate is still even a valid term.

Officially it should be. Morphine, codeine are opiates..I prefer dhc or monoaminergic ones just because it works for my pain better...

 

[sHR00m]

In addition to having pharmacologic effects similar to morphine, a compound must be antagonized by an opioid antagonist, such as naloxone, to be classed as an opioid.

I guess that means mitragynine is in fact an opioid.

 

[red22]

Of course it is. Fentanils and nitazenes are always referred to as opioids and both of them have structures that are quite different from morphine's. Did you not read that the discovery of peptides that are pharmacologically similar to opiates, but not structurally, resulted in the coining of opioid? Mitragynines also fit that description, in fact, with the recent advent in 7-hydroxymitragynine sales, people have been stating that it's very similar to opiates.

There may even be evidence that mitragynines are more dangerous than originally believed, which would make it even more similar to opioids: Kratom Is Dangerous and Addictive: The herb is responsible for thousands of deaths.

 

[sHR00m]

Of course it is. Fentanils and nitazenes are always referred to as opioids and both of them have structures that are quite different from morphine's. Did you not read that the discovery of peptides that are pharmacologically similar to opiates, but not structurally, resulted in the coining of opioid? Mitragynines also fit that description, in fact, with the recent advent in 7-hydroxymitragynine sales, people have been stating that it's very similar to opiates.

Ofc but I thought it is worth pointing out considering how many people keep claiming kratom is not an opioid.

 

[red22]

It's not known for making people overdose and it's legal and sometimes it's described as a stimulant and has a reputation as being weak, so it's not unreasonable to assume that it is pharmacologically different from opioids and just feels like opioids to some people.

 

[sHR00m]

It's not known for making people overdose and it's legal and sometimes it's described as a stimulant and has a reputation as being weak, so it's not unreasonable to assume that it is pharmacologically different from opioids and just feels like opioids to some people.

Mitragynine is clearly established to be a mu-agonist though (and being nullified by naloxone). Just because kratom also has stimulatory alkaloids doesn't mean mitragynine is not an opioid. I also found a specific kratom strain that lacks any stimulation (Kuna Wild). Its quite opioid-like without that component.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Of course it is. Fentanils and nitazenes are always referred to as opioids and both of them have structures that are quite different from morphine's. Did you not read that the discovery of peptides that are pharmacologically similar to opiates, but not structurally, resulted in the coining of opioid? Mitragynines also fit that description, in fact, with the recent advent in 7-hydroxymitragynine sales, people have been stating that it's very similar to opiates.

There may even be evidence that mitragynines are more dangerous than originally believed, which would make it even more similar to opioids: Kratom Is Dangerous and Addictive: The herb is responsible for thousands of deaths.

Kratom imo in his pure form, lets assume regulated unpolluted food grade.
Is not dangerous in the sense Fentanyl, Nitazenes or Heroine/ Morphine are.
Some people report habits of 100 gram a day, can t comment on that.

But 12/ 15 gr a day with breaks, getting off was not that big a deal,
preferably tapered. But even CT nothing compared to harder ones.

Tried o-DSMT, a true Opioid, that probably matches Heroine a bit.
And maybe 7-OHM or Kratom extracts.
Can imagine that even oral/ insufflated abuse would cause more trouble.
And be harder to get off. Imo Kratom whole leaf/ powder is pretty benign.

But addicting, some more susceptible as other s.

 

[red22]

My main concern with drugs is neurotoxicity. It's one reason I don't drink alcohol: it even feels neurotoxic.* Based on your sense and/or research what is your opinion about the neurotoxicity of all the substances you mentioned.


*

No amount of alcohol is good for your overall health, global study says. Sandee LaMotte, Aug 24 2018, CNN
 
"The Harvard researchers also found that brain volume shrank in proportion to alcohol consumed, and that atrophy (shrinkage) was greater even in light and moderate drinkers than in teetotalers."
 
This is your brain on alcohol. Beverly Merz, Jul 14, 2017, Harvard Health Publishing
 
One alcoholic drink a day linked with reduced brain size. Katherine Unger Baillie, Mar 4 2022, Penn Today
 
A New Study About Wine's Impact on Brain Health May Have You Rethinking Your Daily Glass. Beth Ann Mayer, Apr 17 2023, Parade

 

[red22]

Mitragynines also fit that description, in fact, with the recent advent in 7-hydroxymitragynine sales, people have been stating that it's very similar to opiates.

'Legal morphine': 7-OH, the 'monster' drug being sold at some smoke shops