NHS to give addicts free drugs

[malevolent society]

you still havent put up a credible argument yourself. only half arsed excuse type ideology. which is what causes most people to become involved in drugs in the first place.

if you had read my posts properly (are you under the influence ?) you would have noticed that im all for a state run trial for drugs, but, in our own leaders words, and i quote, "there will be NO heroin trial while i am prime minister", so maybe you can sprout your way of thinking to him. while your there, you can tell him how bad street prescription opiates are on the rise...

after working with the homeless for sometime now, you get a far better idea on the workings of the minds of these people. yes, a lot of them ARE irretreivably broken down and are a FUCKING MENACE. when you have worked at the coalface of these types of behaviours, when you have seen the real junkies at work, you may find yourself exposed for the first time. exposed to nuances of human behaviour you never would have thought possible.

experience with theses people from an extremly early age, has shown me that maybe only, and this is a VERY fair estimate, 30 percent of them are worth any effort to become productive again.

my observations come from welfare, psychiatry and dept of corrections. and the devastation of families, including my own

 

[hoptis]

to worthless junkies is as stupid as you are

...

if you had read my posts properly (are you under the influence ?)

...

after working with the homeless for sometime now, you get a far better idea on the workings of the minds of these people. yes, a lot of them ARE irretreivably broken down and are a FUCKING MENACE

...

30 percent of them are worth any effort to become productive again

Seriously, with that sort of attitude, stick to your business or whatever it is that makes you so much money. The homeless, the addicts and the poor don't need arrogant, smug, judgemental know-it-alls like yourself "helping" them. You're seriously deluded if you think someone like you can ever make a difference in the life of someone who needs help because it's people like you that need just as much help.

dont start with your dick sizing

Yeah I hate that. Especially this guy...

i have enough money to have a philanthropy account

...

the money comes from my business of which i employ six people

8)

 

[notauniquesnowflake]

Why the hostility?

Further there are many "Junkies" that lead perfectly respectable lifes and hold down jobs, pay their taxes etc


This is true.....believe it or not it is possible to be addicted and be able to hold down the responsibilities of everyday life (job, bills, school, etc) I'm living proof of that.
For being members of a drug related website malevolent soceity and college drop out seem to have a very harsh attitude towards other drug users. Do either of you use drugs? (I would search some of your posts to find out but I have to be to work soon). Why are you so angry towards "dirty criminal junkies"?

Sorry, just curious.

 

[Manifespo]

I'm an Energy junky.
I'm an Air junky.
I'm a water junky.
I'm a food junky.

These things are not voluntary.
Stand up and fight for your junky rights!
Support your government junky programs!

 

[JakesCode]

In reply to malevolent society,

I too wasn't implying that all junkies should be given diamorphine.. Obviously, it will be used for the people who want to quit, or enter maintanance (sp?) after they have had limited results with other alternatives..

As you should know from all your life experience and qualifications 'Before you can help someone, they need to help themselves'

Perhaps, believe it or not, there could be disturbed people (menaces), living with us who are they way they are with or without drugs.. Drugs just add another variable to the equation.. which could possibly become a constant? or at least less variable...

But you have your opinion, and I have mine.. and thats the beauty of life..

 

[Manifespo]

Malevolent can not be convinced.

His stereotype of "illicit drug users"
is emotionally embedded in his mind.

Just remember, the drug war preserves
huge incentives to sell "illicit drugs."

There wouldn't be so many drugs on the street,
if the markets weren't so damn lucrative.

 

[SpellmanT7]

simple solution; you stay in jail until you have been clean 12 months. that will stop you.

Wow, that's perfect. I wonder why no-one else has suggested this?

All it will take is BILLIONS of pounds to build enough jails to house these future inmates and when the spaces are ready in 2025, we can fling them right in there.

Oh wait, you didn't hear? This is the UK - we DO NOT have spaces in suitable jails for many of the criminals committing crimes as heinous as paedophilia. Perhaps the near-weekly reports of such criminals being housed in open prisons and fucking hostels have escaped you?

 

[malevolent society]

^im very aware of things like jailing the mentally ill JUST because there are no beds available in psych facility`s. im not aware of that happening to cancer patients. there are some boarding houses around my area that accomadate that vermin you talk about. yes, im all for tougher sentences and jails to accomodate. the loudmouth minority`s out there have dictated that we wet nurse these paria`s. bullshit. these peole intrude on our lives then we have to work around them. fuck, im irish and that sounds backwards to me...ive seen people turn there lives around, but that takes hard work and lets face it, people are inherently slack. throw in hardcore addiction and your on a hiding to nothing. wake up to yourselves.as far as im concerned, the mentally ill and the welfare of children come about a million places ahead in the queue before drug addicts. correct me if im wrong.

im certainly not wrong in giving my time and money. if that makes me a wanker, hoptis, tell me what you do. fuck all, ill bet.

 

[dr seuss]

the mentally ill and the welfare of children come about a million places ahead in the queue before drug addicts. correct me if im wrong.

you're wrong.

at least, that's the way our society thinks. and your anger - wherever it originates from - isn't going to change that.

furthermore, mental illness and drug addiction often go hand-in-hand, as you are no doubt well aware from your work with homeless people. there is a circular relationship between poverty, drug addiction and mental & physical illness. in my opinion, it would be the height of narrow-mindedness to attempt to assist people in one area but deny them help in the other.

ssshhheeeeeeesh... never heard such a crock of shit in my life. if you ever think of becoming a lawyer, id like to see your argument with a majistrate over that one.

evry junkie should be registered and have tests FOR LIFE. dont pass, your back in jail for twice as long as your last visit. until you get the message.

are you denying that people who are addicted to heroin (or cannabis, or crack) are capable of leading non-violent, non-criminal lives?

seriously?

are you further suggesting that the best place for addicts in the UK is... erm... jail? where, according to the home office, 27% of prisoners have regular access to heroin?

comparing chris reeve, whom by the way has the ironic nickname of superman , to worthless junkies is as stupid as you are. we are not talking about eugenics at all, eugene, not by any stretch of your massive imagination.im talking about getting tough with criminals.

firstly, people might take your arguments more seriously if you didn't resort to personal attacks which are, incidentally, against the Bluelight User Agreement.

secondly, i'm intrigued by your terminology. do you feel that all junkies are 'worthless'? that all drug users are 'criminals'?

 

[hoptis]

wake up to yourselves.as far as im concerned, the mentally ill and the welfare of children come about a million places ahead in the queue before drug addicts. correct me if im wrong.

im certainly not wrong in giving my time and money. if that makes me a wanker, hoptis, tell me what you do. fuck all, ill bet.

How many of the problems faced by the mentally ill do you think are exacerbated by drug addiction? How many orphaned children are in that situation because of drug addicted parents?

How short-sighted do you have to be to not be able to comprehend that a justice system that treats drug use as a criminal rather than a health issue is ultimately the root cause of so much of the misery that disadvantaged people face in society?

When you lock up an addict who has a three-year old son, what do you think that does to the child's prospects of growing up to have anything resembling a balanced or stable life?

Obviously you've had family issues in your life related to drugs and while I'm sorry for that, it's fairly obvious that you've come out of that with some extreme ideas of how the world should treat drug users.

These people you refer to as "vermin" or "pariahs", they're real people and since you obviously have never experienced substance addiction who are you to speak about their trials as being a simple matter of weakness.

It's always the straight-edged types who have no comprehension of how strong a hold addiction can have who bleat on the loudest about drug users being weak-minded... like you can seriously understand how hard it is.

The only solution you can offer is what? Soup or jail?

How is that going to address the chronic unemployment, lack of shelter, harassment by law enforcement or a million other problems these people face every day?

What an inspiring idea, let's lock them up until they're drug free. You're a genius. Do you really think that if it were as easy as "just saying no" we would have a drug problem today? Do you think that "just say no" has worked for the last fifty years?

Oh, but you would know. You've never been addicted to anything and you're much too strong-minded to ever end up in the gutter and way better than any of these dirty junkies to ever feel the slightest shred of compassion for what these people are going through. Still, with such an arrogant attitude, how can you possibly be wrong about what's best for them.

 

[tambourine-man]

^ Indeed. Nice post.

furthermore, mental illness and drug addiction often go hand-in-hand, as you are no doubt well aware from your work with homeless people. there is a circular relationship between poverty, drug addiction and mental & physical illness. in my opinion, it would be the height of narrow-mindedness to attempt to assist people in one area but deny them help in the other.

Nail. Head.
Target. Hit.
Crumpet. Butter.
etc. etc.

]are you denying that people who are addicted to heroin (or cannabis, or crack) are capable of leading non-violent, non-criminal lives?

seriously?

are you further suggesting that the best place for addicts in the UK is... erm... jail? where, according to the home office, 27% of prisoners have regular access to heroin?

LOL... it amazes me that people actually believe that prisons are some sort of fortress where people are stripped of their every luxury and requirement, and therefor forced to face up to their terrible, terrible afflictions! :D

 

[Skyline_GTR]

^ exactly. Locking someone up for a year in an attempt to cure their drug addiction is the most absurd thing I've heard all week.

This is an article from the press last week about the jail in the city I'm from. This is a typical jail - they can't even stop mobile phones from being smuggled in, let alone drugs and drink.

Link

Jail's drugs and booze haul

Yorkshire Evening Post
By Tom Mullen
25 November 2006

Home-brewing kits, heroin and cannabis have been seized from prisoners in Armley Jail.

The drugs and booze were among the haul found at the prison between January and October this year.

Home Office figures have revealed that there were 195 drug finds and 20 stashes of alcohol uncovered in that time.

Smuggling over prison walls is now so serious that wire mesh fencing has been rigged up above the prisoners' exercise yards to stop drugs being thrown over in tennis balls and even dead birds.

But drugs and home brewing kits are still being smuggled in during visiting times with friends and relatives.

Inmates have been found with home-brewing kits made from plastic squash bottles which together with heat from water pipes, starts the fermentation process.

Prisoners' daily rations of fruit and veg are mixed with sugar and yeast from bread to make booze which is then hidden around the prison.

A spokesman for the prison said: "These are very ingenious people, and they are very good at hiding things. There are thousands of hiding places in a 150 year-old Victorian prison.

"The prisoners hide alcohol in ordinary squash bottles – it's only when you look very carefully that you realise it's actually fermenting. Drugs found ranged from cannabis and amphetamines through to crack cocaine and heroin."

The spokesman said: "We do have a continuing drive to remedy the situation, and we work in co-operation with the police outside the prison. We have halved the number of drugs findings over the last two and a half years."

He added: "Unfortunately, drugs are a part of prison life."

Around 80 percent of prisoners test positive for drugs when they first arrive and regular random testing is carried out, the prison said.

Police and prison chiefs announced a clampdown on drug smuggling at Armley Jail earlier this year.

Five visitors have already been convicted and sentenced for possession with intent to supply drugs to inmates.

Last February, two women visitors aged 20 and 28 were given 18 month jail sentences for attempting to supply heroin to the prison.

 

[somnifile86]

pharmaceutical dope would do nothing but benefit the disadvantaged. who do you think black market dealers benefit the most from? who gets robbed and killed in their own neighborhoods from drug-related gang violence? the poor. this would only take the power from the hands of criminals. the rich don't have this problem, and that's why were faced with such fallible out-dated drug legislation.

 

[malevolent society]

How many of the problems faced by the mentally ill do you think are exacerbated by drug addiction? How many orphaned children are in that situation because of drug addicted parents?

How short-sighted do you have to be to not be able to comprehend that a justice system that treats drug use as a criminal rather than a health issue is ultimately the root cause of so much of the misery that disadvantaged people face in society?

When you lock up an addict who has a three-year old son, what do you think that does to the child's prospects of growing up to have anything resembling a balanced or stable life?

Obviously you've had family issues in your life related to drugs and while I'm sorry for that, it's fairly obvious that you've come out of that with some extreme ideas of how the world should treat drug users.

These people you refer to as "vermin" or "pariahs", they're real people and since you obviously have never experienced substance addiction who are you to speak about their trials as being a simple matter of weakness.

It's always the straight-edged types who have no comprehension of how strong a hold addiction can have who bleat on the loudest about drug users being weak-minded... like you can seriously understand how hard it is.

The only solution you can offer is what? Soup or jail?

How is that going to address the chronic unemployment, lack of shelter, harassment by law enforcement or a million other problems these people face every day?

What an inspiring idea, let's lock them up until they're drug free. You're a genius. Do you really think that if it were as easy as "just saying no" we would have a drug problem today? Do you think that "just say no" has worked for the last fifty years?

Oh, but you would know. You've never been addicted to anything and you're much too strong-minded to ever end up in the gutter and way better than any of these dirty junkies to ever feel the slightest shred of compassion for what these people are going through. Still, with such an arrogant attitude, how can you possibly be wrong about what's best for them.

aaahh... the old "but theres drugs in jail" argument again... yep, there are also paedophiles that get protected, corrupt prison personnel, etc... but thats not the issue, id did mention drug testing, didnt i ?

to answer your question, have i been addicted to anything ? yes, i have. do you want to go in to it now, as an aside, or do you want to start another thread on it ? never claimed to be straight edge. thats your unimformed opinion.

this bullshit about using the kids as leverage to stay out of jail is abominable. the lowest of the fucking low. but what are you going to tell me, its the drugs ? come on, its about time people took responsibility for themselves.

hey maybe i have it wrong, its not the drugs, its the person... i see the type of addict that is probably not in it for the high, but uses the drug as the slowest form of suicide. now that is fucking sad, something i see on a regular basis. for example, i have befreinded a 26 year old man named craig, who i see when i have lunch in the park. he never asks me for money, he just wants someone to talk to. tells me of an horrific childhood and not being able to relate to anybody. ive known him for about 2 months now, and in that time he has got a lot worse. he tells me he takes ms contin and kapinol, his overgrown fingernails have scrtched most of the skin off his face... so i bought him some nail clippers.

to see someone who never hassles anyone for anything, slowly destroy themselves like that, just slowly fade away, is tough for me to deal with. he is a far cry from the junkie that im talking about. craig both needs and deserves care, where as the violent recidivist needs to be locked up. if you have over 50 convictions against your name, its being outside of jail that doesnt work.

 

[Skyline_GTR]

Dude, even if it did work in making an addict go clean for a year under the threat of keeping them in jail forever, most would start again soon after they were out, because you haven't tackled the root causes of their addiction. Addicts need proper rehabiltation and medical treatment to bring about them being clean, not locking up and forcing them.

You still haven't answered the cost argument that Gaz mentioned, the fact that it costs 3 times as much to keep someone in jail even at the rip off diamorphine prices that the government gets charged, let alone if they sourced it better.

 

[Manifespo]

I guess...
There's no arguing
with the guilt and grief
of a former criminal junky,
to use his own terms.

 

[malevolent society]

sorry, you have misconstrued. former criminal junkie ? who are you talking about ?

 

[malevolent society]

Dude, even if it did work in making an addict go clean for a year under the threat of keeping them in jail forever, most would start again soon after they were out, because you haven't tackled the root causes of their addiction. Addicts need proper rehabiltation and medical treatment to bring about them being clean, not locking up and forcing them.

You still haven't answered the cost argument that Gaz mentioned, the fact that it costs 3 times as much to keep someone in jail even at the rip off diamorphine prices that the government gets charged, let alone if they sourced it better.

ok, ill answer the question. how much would the hardcore addict use per year in monetry terms ? you put your answer here, we wont come to terms on this one, i know.

on top of that,the intrusion in to peoples lives, the social fallout, and the more serious crimes that go along with it that seriously affect the vitims for the rest of their lives. thats the one you CANT put a price on...

and there is your bottom line. you havent got one of those. so im drawing it for you. if it saves just one person from a life of grief, then thats the side we MUST fall on.

there are choices and consequences. no one has the right to ruin someones life no matter what the "excuse" is, and thats where your theory goes wrong, it allows for that.

 

[fastandbulbous]

comparing chris reeve, whom by the way has the ironic nickname of superman , to worthless junkies is as stupid as you are. we are not talking about eugenics at all, eugene, not by any stretch of your massive imagination.im talking about getting tough with criminals.

You were the one saying that they had to prove their worth to society, not me so you were the one going down the eugenics path.

BTW, you talk about criminals, but in common law there is nothing that approaches criminality for consuming substances - it's all about how you impact on other members of society. Drugs are illegal for political reasons, not some commonly agreed breaking of any common (or natural if you want) law. If you want a good example of stupid, it's locking people up for victimless crimes and fostering a great mistrust in any lehgal system that follows that sort of philosophy, especially the idea of locking them up until they prove thay are of value. Do you have any idea how much more it costs to keep someone in prison than treat them for what is in reality a medical, not criminal problem or do you belive that drug dependance is not a medical/psychiatric problem - if it wasn't then drug dependant people wouldn't have so many psychological problems in common that are rarely seen in the general population

there are choices and consequences. no one has the right to ruin someones life no matter what the "excuse" is, and thats where your theory goes wrong, it allows for that.

If drugs were supplied, in the same way say insulin is, for a medical condition there would be next to no crime associated with drug use, don't you understand that simple premis (by all means lock up people who are violent & cpmmit crimes when given a state supervised supply of drugs)? Apparently not, judging by your dogmatic approach to drug dependance

Does the "there are choices and consequences. no one has the right to ruin someones life no matter what the "excuse" is" include people who have psychiatric problems and who have never damaged anyone else's life should be locked up and have the key thrown away, because that's what you are proposing for drug dependant persons. If so you are a hypocrite of the 1st degree

 

[malevolent society]

what ? are you on drugs ?

no, drug dependency/alcoholism is NOT a disease. its a choice. as for victimless crimes... im not even going to discuss that.ive already stated TWICE now that im all for a drug trial, but its not going to happen. now if you can come up with an alterntive suggestion, go ahead. and since when is mental ilness a choice ? ive got to wonder if you have been taking too many drugs. best get off them before you get sent to jail. so tell me where is the hypocricy ?