News: Tasers to target ice addicts

[chugs]

Isn't this really dangerous - you've got a person unless the influence of a stimulant. There probably having an psychotic episode, their heart is beating excessively high and you shoot them with a high voltage taser.

Tasers to target ice addicts

Taser stun guns are being trialled as a way to deal with people suffering psychotic episodes through the use of the drug ice, NSW Police Minister Carl Scully says.

Taser X26 stun guns can disable a person from 10 metres with 50,000 volts, and have been trialled by the NSW public order and riot squad since June.

Mr Scully said people suffering psychotic episodes posed problems for conventional policing and healthcare.

His comments follow a report that the methamphetamine ice can bring about violent behaviour in some people, but that it's not behind the dramatic spike in assaults in NSW.

"I know accident emergency services, processes, are being changed to deal with it, the mental health approaches of police are being reconsidered," he told Southern Cross Broadcasting.

"One of the reasons why we're looking at Taser guns is (the need) for some of these people who (experience) psychotic episodes ... to be restrained.

"(It's) very difficult for conventional policing procedures to deal with it."

NSW tactical operations police have been using Tasers in high-risk situations involving hostages or firearms for two years.

Recommendations from the Taser stun gun trial are expected within a month.

AAP

 

[Splatt]

Couldn't this trigger an already over-responsive central nervous system and cardiovascular system to very dangerous levels?

 

[Fry-d-]

That does sound incredibly dangerous.

 

[basix]

Yah tasers dont sound like too good an idea, but Ill share a positive story about cops dealing with myself in this situation.

To this day I'm extremely thankful for the way the police dealt with me while I was in a meth induced psychosis. I wont tell the whole story again but I had been up for a couple days on meth and fell into a paranoid psychosis while out clubbing, and thought everyone was trying to kill me- taxi drivers, clubbers, cops- everyone lol.

There were alot of things that happened before the cops got involved (I called them myself btw and told them people are about to kill me). They came to where I was at a servo near the west gate bridge in Melbourne, where I was in a paranoid mess scared of anyone and everythiing, refusing to leave the store and scaring all the customers. I honestly thought they were trying to kill me and I resisted the cops and struggled with them at every step, grabbing their notebooks and ripping them, telling them they weren't real cops etc, they eventually just helped me get in contact with my other druggy friends I was out that night and told them to get me home and they would not follow up with it.

I seriously couldn't imagine the consequences if the police had tried to violently restrain me or taken me away in a police car to be questioned or something. In a psychosis you genuinely fear for your life and would do just about anything to stop a percieved threat. I've never ever been involved in violence and I think the cops coulcd probably tell that because I look pretty harmless.

Even though they knew I had drugs on me, had been taking drugs and all my friends were on drugs, IMO they did the correct thing by just insisting my friends take me home, because in this psychosis my friends out that night were the only people I thought weren't against me, and the only people I would go away peacefully with and I eventually just slept it off. So there are still some good cops that IMO used great judgement that night and didnt make an already bad situation much much worse for me.

 

[zaineaol.nu]

^^Big ups to the coppers who did that.

i've been in a state close to thato ne, it was very frightening for me. i never wanna go there again

 

[vanth]

I guess they're looking out for people who might be attacked by the person experiencing meth psychosis, rather than the user themselves.

I can understand why, and if its an alternative to shooting or beating them then that's a good thing.

Its certainly not ideal though, and I imagine it could pose significant risks to the user. I wonder if the police are willing to accept responsibility if someone they've tasered dies, especially when they're clearly at risk of a stroke/heart attack.

 

[Splatt]

If you can't use pepper spray without getting other people, I guess it's the only option for someone in full violent psychosis mode. Maybe it will make them stronger though ;-)

 

[basix]

Yeah it sucks, but I think ultimately police have the right to use brutal and sometimes even deadly force on someone who is clearly going to harm other people.

Perhaps police need additional training in dealing with situations like this, and how to recognise exactly how much of a threat each person is. Im sure their are a number of steps and things that can be done before you have to use a taser just because someone is psychotic.

 

[ilikeacid]

That story scared the shit out of me basix! Sounds like you wound yourself up really tight
I'll be interested to see if they do actually start handing out stun guns to coppers and saying, "use these on the psycotic people, that's what they're best for". Wouldn't you think that shooting 2 10,000 volt barbs into the chest of someone who has a heart rate of 130bpm would have the chance of causing a fatal heart attack? 8) Seems a bit illogical. Plus the cops are going to look so bad if they do accedently kill someone, drug psycosis or no, people don't like reading about police inflicted casualties in their morning paper!!

 

[m4dd0g]

Despite suffering beaurcractic and political idiocy Id like to think the police arent stupid and are well aware of the risks of using stunners on civilians (drugged or otherwise)

I do recall a case many years ago about some guy getting gunned down by coppers on a beach after rushing then with a knife. I assumed at the time it was mental illness or DIP

 

[person]

They should hold a syringe in one hand, and a crack pipe in the other full of good ice, that would make the psychotic type STFU then eyeball the crank then while they taking a hit handcuff them. OK doesnt sound convincing lol. But if they were stun then had a heart attack, couldnt they just buzz the person again?? ok im spun and need to rest :/
Yeah the cops here have done that too to a friend of mine incidentally at the local service station. Apparently they drove him home and made sure he got inside safe, now that was cool. Then again he told them he was high off daytura.

 

[ilikeacid]

^Yeah but your from NZ, land of the free! Our cops tend to want to make you suffer if they think they can.. plus ours have guns! (nb: yes we have some good cops, I'm yet to see more than 1 in victoria though, most should go find a really big cow and stick their head far up it's arse.. i feel better now )

 

[person]

^
True that, the cops I found here to be ALOT more nicer than the experiences ive had when ive gone to melburn (heh) and sydney. They carry guns here too, just arent trigger happy as the oz ones. But ive noticed a ton more cops here are quite young, and found the young cops pleasant to talk to if stopped for an alcohol test on the road, public places.

 

[lady grey]

Despite suffering beaurcractic and political idiocy Id like to think the police arent stupid and are well aware of the risks of using stunners on civilians (drugged or otherwise)

I agree. I dont doubt the tasers will not be pleasant and may cause serious harm especially if they are in meth induced psychosis but its a better alternative than being shot.

 

[mikeyakame]

this is dangerous, the risk of a tachycardic episode is multiplied many times when the offender is under the influence of a strong cns stimulant like methylamphetamine or even cocaine, considering the bp and pulse are already way beyond the normal levels, 160-170/100-120 bp, and pulse of anywhere from 120-150bpm, when they already this elevated an external voltage will cause in most people tachycardia, which is extremely dangerous since untreated even within less than a minute can cause seizures or cardiac arrest and police are NOT qualified and DO NOT have the equipment to deal with such situations, and yet if somebody dies they'll accept no responsibility. why arent the police being given the more logical and sensible alternative of tranquilliser handguns, probably because it costs alot more than cheap dangerous tasers. midazolam / haliperadol cartridges would be the safest way to deal with amphetamine psychosis episodes, its safer dealing with an offender whos sedated with a benzo/anti-psychotic cocktail than one whos heart is about to explode. Thats my 5c on this matter.

 

[chugs]

a second hand story

A few years ago a dealer friend of mine was recounting how one of her meth sources was importing tasers into the country (bikie esqe type dealer/network).

Anyway this dude was the type that is constantly working out, freaked out on meth etc (ha) - was shooting himself with these tasers, conditioning his body to the point where he could withstand it.

Scared the shit out of her she claims as she saw him just shoot his chest....repeatedly

Anyway how funny would that be if there was a army of meth users invunurable to the effects of tasers.....

 

[m4dd0g]

160-170/100-120 bp, and pulse of anywhere from 120-150bpm, when they already this elevated an external voltage will cause in most people tachycardia, which is extremely dangerous since untreated even within less than a minute can cause seizures or cardiac arrest

Not to doubt what you are saying but it would be good to have some solid citation for this.

I would have thought that a bpm of over 150 would be very common in someone needing to be tasered (violent/aggressive) and if what your are saying is true there would be a hell of a lot more fatalities reported from tasering.

I just dislike sensationalist unsubstantiated 'facts' as people tend to love the taste of BS

(Honestly no offence intended)

 

[Splatt]

That's a good point, but meth does more to your body than just a rised heart beat.

 

[hoptis]

Police to use stun guns on violent ice addicts
Simon Kearney and Dan Box
October 20, 2006

POLICE in Sydney will use Taser stun guns to take down ice users suffering psychotic episodes in an effort to protect emergency workers from violent assaults.

The announcement came as John Howard pledged to do "anything additional" that was needed to help solve the problem of the highly addictive drug.

The Prime Minister was responding to a call by NSW Premier Morris Iemma to hold a national leadership forum on ice - or crystal methamphetamine.

Mr Howard said he did not think another forum was necessary because federal, state and Territory ministers were planning to hold discussions on the matter in December. But he said he "understood" Mr Iemma's concern.

Mr Iemma released figures on ice users who had ended up in emergency wards, showing that 56 per cent were addicted to ice and 45 per cent had committed a crime in the past month. Users were also 11 times more likely to have a psychotic episode.

NSW Police Minister Carl Scully said the Taser X26 stun gun, which could disable a person from 10m away using a 50,000-volt blast, was being considered as a response to violent outbursts by ice addicts.

"One of the reasons why we're looking at Taser guns is (the need) for some of these people who (experience) psychotic episodes ... to be restrained," he told Southern Cross radio.

The stun guns have been trialled by the NSW public order and riot squad and were in use by some tactical operations police in high-risk situations.

In some areas of Sydney, ice addicts have become a relatively common sight. Felicity, an ice user who did not sleep on Wednesday night, spent yesterday afternoon stumbling around the streets of Surry Hills, in inner Sydney, knocking on strangers' doors trying to find the house of a friend.

Distracted and unable to control the spasms in her arms, head and legs, the mother of one said she had left her son, aged 11, with family in Melbourne because she did not want him to be ashamed of her.

Until recently she has slept in a shelter with other drug users, but said she left because she could not stand it any more and was now homeless. "The drugs, the alcohol," she said. "You try to get out but they just keep you down."

The Australian

 

[Xihias]

50,000

that seems a lot of volts ay !!