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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

New Scientist on Psychoactive Substances Ban

I agree that the article did not go into enough of the more contemporary evidence against prohibition and the harms associated with it. The attitude that you have displayed in just about every post you've made since starting this new account certainly is facile. All will be forgiven if you stop right there.
 
Is my anger not understandable? The liberalised drug market created by the 'legal highs' boom has left misery and heartbreak in its wake. Would you be happy if your SON was smoking 'Black Mamba'?
 
The world is full of misery and heartbreak, every day, for all sorts of reasons. People who cannot adapt to societal change naturally get harmed in the process. Education, evidence based policy, and honesty is the only answer.
 
I certainly wouldn't be happy because I know the harmful effects. Deciding not to criminalise users of drugs is not the same as advocating that people do it. As much as I wouldn't want a child of mine to be taking any drugs, no matter how scary the name sounds, I would not want them being classed as a criminal for doing so.
 
Of course, criminalising youngsters for making bad choices is a terrible idea. Ostracising and removing dealers, however, is proven to work at ground level. The ban will at least allow communities to identify those who wish to perpetuate the evils.
 
Of course, predatory drug dealers who supply heroin, crack and alcohol to vulnerable people are criminals and a danger to society, I have no sympathy for them and hope that law enforcement can manage those kind of problems.

I also think legal highs should not be sold in high street shops.
 
You think your local off-sales is truly on a par with the heroin and cocaine dealers of the world? Honestly? Or is the hyperbole aimed at getting me to concede that the alcohol market blights communities on the same scale as heroin, ecstasy and crack gangs?
 
Temperate Citizens said:
Of course, criminalising youngsters for making bad choices is a terrible idea. Ostracising and removing dealers, however, is proven to work at ground level. The ban will at least allow communities to identify those who wish to perpetuate the evils.
Click to expand...

Criminal gangs have also found that replacing and relocating dealers has proven to work at ground level. The main problems caused by drugs aren't solved at ground level. The drugs market is a massive geopolitical machine. Shooting a few weans down the Foyleside doesn't do much.
 
Don Luigi said:
Criminal gangs have also found that replacing and relocating dealers has proven to work at ground level. The main problems caused by drugs aren't solved at ground level. The drugs market is a massive geopolitical machine.
Click to expand...
Maybe the international market will be left untroubled, but the problem will be diverted from vulnerable sections of society. We can hope for this much.
 
Temperate Citizens said:
Well, blow me down. Never saw that coming, eh?
Click to expand...

5 facts about Alcohol related violence taken from ONS figures during 2013/14.

Temperate Citizens said:
Maybe the international market will be left untroubled, but the problem will be diverted from vulnerable sections of society. We can hope for this much.
Click to expand...

Just because we don't see the suffering in our everyday lives, doesn't mean it has stopped. Is it ok for drugs to cause suffering so long as it doesn't take place in your community?
 
Have I not stated that alcohol is its own problem, which should be tackled along with illegal drugs? To take things a step further, does the harm caused by liberalised of alcohol laws not actually support the argument against doing the same with illegal drugs?
 
The law does not reflect the actual and relative harms caused to individuals and communities by any drug, be it alcohol, heroin, MDMA or research chemicals. This is why the law needs a complete restructure because it is based on politics not evidence.
 
Evidence? We've seen enough from the 'legal highs' market to suggest that any further liberalisation of drug laws (other than perhaps cannabis, to a limited extent) would be utterly disastrous. The NHS is still dealing with the fallout from mephedrone et al. Do we throw amphetamines, LSD and the rest into the mix and reap the inevitable harvest of shame a few years further down the line? I think not.
 
Temperate Citizens said:
Have I not stated that alcohol is its own problem, which should be tackled along with illegal drugs? To take things a step further, does the harm caused by liberalised of alcohol laws not actually support the argument against doing the same with illegal drugs?
Click to expand...

Yes but that also highlights the hypocrisy of alcohol being considered the exception when it comes to legislation. I'm not allowed to reference the effects of alcohol prohibition in the USA though..

I also don't see where you're seeing the liberal drug laws either. As far as I'm aware, there was no legislation passed shortly before the legal high explosion that suddenly lifted a barrier for the production and sale. Perhaps if the drug laws had been more liberal, the explosion of legal highs would not have taken place.
 
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