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New platform for drug-war debate

Provided our people at our forefront argue well.
I imagine it could be promising.

On the show "A Can Of Worms" They had the a drug discussion last year, I was just glad to see something that wasn't trying to deter drug use on a national t.v show, and just a general discussion with conflicting views.

And I'll close with this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2sLSWXOOM&feature=related
Good things are coming friends, good things.
 
And I'll close with this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2sLSWXOOM&feature=related
Good things are coming friends, good things.

...i take it you haven't been following the republican presidential race? ron paul has an internet following and says a few rabble-rousing things about the insanity of US drug policy and foreign policy, but he's not setting the agenda. nor is he taken seriously by the media, his party or middle america.
i'd love to think that there was a huge groundswell of opposition to the war on drugs, but it just isn't the reality in the US unfortunately. there is dissent, there are people criticising prohibition and there are states that are legislating to allow medical marijuana and so on, but they are a minority and there is still a multi-billion dollar industry set up around prohibition.
when you hear the opponents of obama talking about what they want, it always comes back to "i want my country back". from what exactly, i'm not sure - but this is what the republican party is looking to capitalise on; a desire to return to "traditional american values" (again, whatever the hell those are) not a foray into drug legalisation and allowing the states to do whatever they please.

yes - we are getting somewhere in the sense that a presidential candidate is actually mentioning the war on drugs and voicing his opposition to it, but unfortunately that is a long way from anything being done to change it. i would love to share your optimism - and i'm certainly not saying we should give up - but there are a lot more people and a many more powerful forces standing behind the war on drugs than there are folks campaigning against it. and i really don't think ron paul is the answer by any means.
as well meaning as paul may be (this remains to be seen), the president doesn't actually have as much control as people may think.
even in the fairytale scenario that ron paul won the republican presidential nomination and beat obama in the presidential elections, he would have to convince his party (remember, this is the party that started "the war on drugs", "the war on terror" and counts fundamentalist christian america as its main support base) and even if he were able to get the republican party onside, they would need the numbers to get it through both houses of congress in order to pass it into law.
now...obama had enough trouble implementing a bill that proposed health care for all americans. they called him a socialist, this that and the other. how dare he try and fix the diabolical health system? the one that makes medical treatment prohibitively expensive for all but the wealthy? he must be a communist!
community and political resistance has held obama back in several ways, and compared to the idea of legalising drugs, his political aims have never really been that radical. if ron paul came to power and tried to do what was being proposed, america would become more corrosively divided that it is today.

a large shift towards liberalising drug policy would mean that drug law enforcement bodies would lose all their funding - and these are groups with a lot of power, a lot of links to government and a lot of sway in the media. there are also the enormous privatised prisons and the infrastructure that has set up around them. we're not talking about a small town police force or a little county jail - these are enormous bureaucracies.
the one thing politicians never want to be associated with is losing jobs. making a decision that costs people their jobs is always very unpopular, especially in the current global economic climate. i think that on top of all the drug propaganda of the last 50+ years, the other huge obstacle in ending these policies is the amount of jobs that would become obsolete.

sorry about the ranty ramble and i hate being a nay-sayer, but just because there is an undercurrent of ron paul supporters online, doesn't mean shit in a country that is so held back by conservative traditions, fundamentalist religion and overwhelming corporate power - especially in the media which is the filter through which the majority of debate is heard.
ron paul for all his apparent goodwill and sound arguments has been ignored by the media from the very beginning. we are not witnessing his rise to power...maybe just his last attempt to be politically relevant. his libertarian message strikes a chord with a lot of people that are otherwise not entirely tuned-in to politics, but not necessarily to the many forces that seek to maintain the status quo.

now, i'm not saying that we shouldn't continue to be vocal about this or treat it like the inevitability it should be. drugs policy is corrupt and needs to be changed.
but we need to be pragmatic about it too - this guy isn't going to solve the problem, but he might be one of the first to bring it up in a mainstream forum. i think the only way we are going to make any headway is by taking baby steps. radical changes tend to cause a backlash - if they are even allowed to succeed in the first place.

again, sorry for the rant, but ron paul isn't our saviour.
 
^+1^

....although, did anyone catch the debate, or know where it can be found online? ;)
 
^+1^

....although, did anyone catch the debate, or know where it can be found online? ;)


Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSrN2zIRwN8


Btw I just started watching it but I'm glad the president of my country (Colombia) made the introduction of the debate. We have suffered so much for the war of drugs, our whole politic system, justice , culture and everything is permeated to the deepest levels by narcotrafic. It's sad such a nice country full of natural and people resources can't advance as fast as it could because of this.
 
Yeh good post Spacejunk, a nice page on a strong topic.

And if it does get it more in the mainstream media I think that is good start. It might not change too much for our generation, but if it does for the next one and I can sit around as 50yr old with controlled legal supply of good drugs I would be happy man.

First weed legal, then acid, then E,K, Coke... Instead of weed being a gate way drug for stonger drugs it could pave the way for legalisation...

Thanks for the link psytaco!
 
A very interested debate, and i recommend that everyone watch it.

what I found very interesting was that the pro-drug war side stayed well clear of arguing the positives of using military force against drug cartels, and the whole effect the drug war is having on Latin America. They instead tried to push for keeping drugs illegal and rehabilitating and educating users and addicts. I found it particularly ironic when the US politicians tried to argue that nobody in the US is imprisoned for drug possession, when most of the 2 million+ US inmates are there for non-violent drug offences. The US has very draconian drug laws for possession, and possession of small amounts of hard drugs, and even marijuana in many states can mean your jailed for several years.

Particularly ridiculous was the pro-drug war side arguing that instead you will have bankers and capitalists profiting from legalisation, and that this will catastrophic. So instead we should keep cartels and the marfia?

For the most part, the anti-drug war side argued eloquantly. Maybe with the exception of the guy who lead the debate, who kept interrupting those who spoke on his side to reiterate points that they were not necessarily making. The former DA and governor on the otherside argued alot better, though his views are not shared by me.

Russel brandt actually did a surprisingly good job.

Anyway, well worth watching.
 
I have to say that while it was a good debate, I would have liked to see "our" side focus more on the harms and pharmacological effects of various drugs. While I don't agree entirely with Professor Nutt's findings, I do think that if we want any change it needs to be done gradually, even if I personally subscribe to the idea that people should be able to do whatever they want to their own bodies provided that they cause no harm to others. The "drugs" rhetoric in which all substances are lumped together in the same argument is the first misconception to break-down.

Also, the insane assertion that all drug users in The States are in prison because of other violent crime (assault, robbery, theft, etc.) perpetrated in connexion to their drug use is obviously pure shit, but it's shit that's delivered through excellent (devious) speakers in a language that appeals to the mindless conservatism (neo-liberalism) of middle-america.

Agreed that the other side had a far greater control of language (I suppose it's necessary when you're talking through your arse) - Richard Branson for me didn't particularly add anything positive to the debate and just sounded like someone that didn't know much about his own arguments.

Overall, debates like this can only be a positive thing.
 
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