Mental Health New Member in CA Just Trying to Get Some Sleep

Fussbucket

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
20
Location
California
Hello!

I'm a long-time lurker who just registered for an account yesterday. A couple of months ago I started dealing with pretty bad insomnia. I'm a late-30s male who's NEVER been a good sleeper, but this summer I started dealing with the worst insomnia ever. I normally go to bed at 10 PM and get up at 6 PM, but I started to wake up around 11:30 PM and then would be up off an on for the rest of the night. My mom was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year, and that's almost certainly contributing to all of this.

For years I had been taking melatonin (3 mg, then more recently 5 mg), and that wasn't really helping anymore. Benadryl, Unisom, etc., all helped a bit with getting me to sleep (which isn't really a problem for me), but did nothing to help me stay asleep. And, they left me feeling like crap in the morning. Useless for me, basically.

In late July I talked to my primary doc about the problem, and over the past two months he has tried:

- Temazepam (15 mg, but usually taking 2 per night)
- Ambien (10 mg)
- Lunesta (3 mg)

The temazepam, in hindsight, actually worked pretty well. But, I judged it pretty harshly at the time since I was expecting a miracle cure, and it was far from that. It was more like the difference between sleeping 3-4 hours and sleeping 6-7 hours per night. And, I have read all about benzos and how quickly one can build up a huge tolerance. Ambien, as many said would happen, only helped me sleep for 3-4 hours, and then I'd be wide awake. Lunesta is billed as the "helps you sleep all night" drug, but I was still waking up after 5 or so hours. And, Lunesta (even the generic I was taking, with insurance) is VERY expensive. If it worked, I'd probably pay the price, but it doesn't work any better than temaz for me.

I also, for the first time in my life, started going to a psychiatrist. Since August he has tried:

- Trazodone (50 mg)
- Doxepin (50 mg)
- Mirtazapine (15 mg)

I hated -- HATED -- the trazodone. Within 20 minutes it made me feel really drugged out, but I was not falling asleep! I also could feel my heart beating and was very unhappy. I literally tossed them in the trash. More recently, doxepin and mirtazapine (not taken on the same day) have sort of worked... Again, not miracle cures, but when I take them along with melatonin, I seem to do better than average. But, I feel like I'm still slightly affected the next day, plus I'm wondering about their effects on my blood pressure, which is already a bit higher than it should be.

I also have tried some klonopin that a friend gave to me. Again, sort of worked, but not a miracle cure. And, I know it's a benzo... tolerance... be careful.... etc.

So, I'm still searching. As I started to do my own research on medicines online, I kept ending up at bluelight.org, and learned a ton from reading the discussion threads on here, so I finally decided to create an account. I look forward to learning more on here!
 
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welcome to Bluelight :)

im going to move this to mental health for you so you can get more answers to your questions in that forum :)
 
You have insomnia now for a couple of months and allready tried 10 meds??

I think you are going waaay too fast going on meds anyway, apart from that, some meds take several days to weeks to fully have the desired effect, especially mirtazapine or other antidepressents.

And apart from that the insomnia comes from a psychiatric background in your case i believe, stress/anxiety/tension etc, look into that deeper, and the way you talk about not being satisfied with 5 or 6 hours sleep (some people, including me, would kill for that) and continue the search for the holy grail makes me wonder if you arent obsessed with it.

Let it go, accept that some nights you sleep, some you dont. Its not the end of the world at all. I have gone through several weeks last month on 2 or 3 hours sleep IF i even slept, didnt give a shit, filled my days with excersise, cleaning, walking, relaxing etc.
Then i got on mirtazapine, now a month, and i still sleep only 4 hours or so, but i still manage to function.
The human body is stronger then you think when you let your mind controle it.

Fill your day with structure and activity, go to bed at the same time, avoid tv/pc and read a book, do a mindfullness excercise, take a little walk before bedtime, no heavy meal but no empty stomache neither, empty your blatter before shutting down the lights, get a dark and quit bedroom.
Paint your walls deep orange or green, no purple red or blue.

But the most important thing is, do not fight it. It will become a self forfilling prophecy when you get anoid about waking up in the middle of the night and try to force yourself back to sleep.
So what you are awake...close your eyes and just rest, even when you dont sleep you'll get some rest, when you do get pissed off, go out your bed and start your day like its morning.
Try a nap after lunch, no longer then 45 minutes!, it may help you sleep better how strange it may sound.

Ive been there, i know the hell insomnia can be, had it since i was a little kid (i have ADD).
The most important thing is to accept what you cannot change, so you can change it after you accepted it. And talk to a schrink i a good plan dude, keep it up, the insomnia comes from somewhere.

Good luck and report back :)



ps. ive heard people say good things about seroquel ;)
 
Thanks njirem. You're right that I've burned through a lot of options quickly. I'm just at my wits' end.

You mention a lot of good ideas, but I wish any of those low-hanging fruit were still available: We don't have a TV in our bedroom, the only things I do in there are sleep, sex, and some pre-bedtime reading, we have a quiet space at the right temperature, I eat a light dinner at least hours before bedtime, I exercise (mornings) 3-4 times per week, I only have caffeine early in the day (and have cut back on this)... I wish there were some obvious thing I'm missing!

(Also, ever since I was a kid I've been a terrible napper. I don't even try to sleep during the day.)

But, I am taking your advice to heart. I wish I could just not care about sleep, but I'm definitely in the self-fulfilling-prophecy cycle right now. Sigh...

But thank you!!
 
dont get me wrong, it can be very frustrating!
I know all about it, it really is a proces, take it slow and step by step.

Have you seen 'The Machinist?

Its about a guy that didnt sleep for a year because he got some mental issues.. i wont spoil the plot but the message is clear, free your mind and you'll eventually sleep.
Its a good movie :)
 
Yeah I had a thing of waking up at night at the same fucking time and Im very bad sleeper,when I woke up at night and looked at the clock,it frightened me and couldnt sleep afterwards...it got me frustrated,and so it became every night problem,precise the same damn time,and no sleep afterwards ,more worries more stress,bad feeling every day,it was a mistery for me,but hey I did had a lot of stress over that time...and it made it worse,much much worse,I was afraid of going to sleep,there you go full blown insomnia..Then I forced my self not to think about my insomnia,do not panic,keep the calm mind,keep my self cool,not worry about 1-2 days without sleep,and then ,when I was calm like that I fell asleep,it was like a spell that I broke..but really there was no spell. As for waking up at night every time,thing that helped is that if I wake up at night,I dont look at the clock,I dont care,I chill..and gradually that habit of waking up at the same time went away,and then I guess my attention went away from this thing and didnt experience much since

as for pills,you did have everything possible there ..except seroquel ,but its neuroleptic aka antipsychotic,you probably will hate it..and its not good for your health and maybe hard to quit
There are no pills that will make you a better sleeper ,because without them its shitty,pills are not for sleep,because sleep is natural at the end of the day its just you...
 
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No, I haven't seen that movie, but it sounds like I should,

Seriously, I'm taking everything everyone here says to heart... I just wish that, when someone says, "Just clear your mind and relax," I could actually do that!
 
I also have a problem not only falling asleep, but staying asleep. Mirtazipine made me sleepy before bed and seemed to help me get more rested, natural sleep but I continued to wake up every hour.

The addition of Seroquel (brand name, not generic) has really combined well with the Remeron (mirtaz) so I now fall asleep immediately and wake up once or twice at most, sometimes not at all.

It's so nice to be free of the anxiety over not sleeping. And also not having to worry about taking habit forming medications.
 
rhun, that sounds like a night of sleep that I unfortunately haven't had in ages... Seroquel keeps coming up... I may ask my doctor if I should try it.
 
^^
You could indeed ask your doctor about that.
Ive had it in the past on a low dose (12.5mg) and it straight knocked me out (i am very sensitive to sedatives) and slept for 12 hours straight.
The thing is though, the next day i felt like i couldnt wake up, only around 16.00 i started to feel a bit more clear in mind.
I hated it and flushed the whole strip.
But that was 5 years ago, when i was suffering from my GAD badly.
The people i know who take it all say that goes away.

I also have had some experience with Promethazine, as a sleep aid. Did his thing but also very dizzy the next day.
But i must state it felt better on my body then seroquel.

Last night i went to bed around 22.30 and fell asleep quickly (took the 15mg mirtazapine) but was awake allready at 01.30. Had some pretty vivid and wild nightmares (mirtazapine seems to enhance them anyway, and i also seem te urinate more, others with these issues?).
in the past i wouldv been pretty shook up about it, but tonight i smoked a sigarette and had a glass of milk (as always) took half a tab mirtazapine, and slept for another hour or two.

It is now 06.15 and im up an hour allready, had effectively slept for 5 hours or less.

So i try to deny my tiredness and think of the little gift i now get that other peple will not get.

I will see the sunrise, when i go for a run in an hour along the riverside!
I beat the fucking busses to it so i will make noise earlier then they! ;)
Ill have plenty of time this day to do what needs to be done, and i can get a nap after lunch!
Get my money today, ill head to starbucks later and relax with a cup of coffee thinking about the groceries and ill buy myself a little gift for being sober for more then 5 weeks allready!

Tonight will be tonight, tomorrow tomorrow.

I hope you got some sleep brother, hang in there!
<3
 
Thank you, njrem! Sounds like your night wasn't too different from one of my normal nights.

Last night I gave mirtazapine another shot. The first two times I took it, I actually started on 7.5 mg (half a tablet). I felt like that didn't do much -- I'm unfortunately not very sensitive to sedatives -- so last night I took a whole 15 mg tablet, plus 5 mg of melatonin (which I normally take). I fell asleep pretty easily. After a few hours I started my normal routine of waking up a few times, but my mind wasn't racing too badly, and I each time I was able to get back to sleep. I can't quite recall how long I was up each time, but that's a good sign that I wasn't up for too long.

The last time I woke up was some time after 5 AM (maybe around 5:20), and I remember thinking that I only had about a half hour until my alarm went off. That's normally when I'm up for good, but the next thing I knew, my wife was tapping my arm because I wasn't responding to the alarm clock. That NEVER happens. So, I guess it kind of worked!

I don't feel too affected this morning. I actually feel pretty normal. The massive hunger that others have described definitely kicked in while I was in the shower, but I then proceeded to eat the same breakfast that I always have... I definitely don't want to turn into one of those "I gained 20 lbs in a month!!" cautionary tales.

Long story short, it was a successful night. I'm traveling for the rest of the week starting tomorrow, and I need to decide what to arm myself with for the trip... maybe the mirtazapine for now!
 
That good too hear!!

Mirtazapine really makes people fall asleep, its not a drug that knocks you out for the night, so waking up from time to time is nut unusual.
I heard other people who can sleep through the night on it though, lucky bastards, but perhaps we share some kind of similair insomnia they don't.
Maybe you did fall back to sleep quickly every time is due to the melatonin?
I tried melatonine in various doses, and also in XR form, but it only helped me when i was allready tired, but maybe i can try to add it to the mirtazapine and see where that takes me.
I will definetely ask my doc what he thinks.
Im not into stronger sleeping pills anyway, i KNOW he will bring up seroquel because many fellow clients get them when they continue having trouble sleeping, and i also take 2 antidepressants allready, im not really in to adding an anti-psychotic.

My day went pretty smooth, yes it was a long one, but i did all i wanted to, had a friend over too, and made me little corner desk out of some leftover wood remaining from an IKEA package.
Ill try to go to bed an hour later and see if 23.00 is a better time to go to sleep, it 21.55 now and im not really tired ^^

Talk to you later and have a safe trip :)

ps. I dont have more hunger then usual on mirtazapine, but research shos there are signs that it can also slow down your metabolism and makes you hold more fluids, wich can add to weight gain along with ingesting more food. Something to keep in mind ;)
 
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Yeah, I guess the slow metabolism thing is something to worry about. If it only affects my appetite, I actually am pretty confident that I can fight that off. I've got enough self-control that I've already felt my stomach growl at a weird hour (when I'm never normally hungry), and have been able to say to myself, "That's just the pills causing that. You're fine." But, if it actually slows down my metabolism or otherwise affects what's going on inside of me, then I need to be extra careful...

This is the only stuff that I'm on, besides blood pressure meds. I suppose I'm hopping around too much (temazepam, ambien, lunesta, trazodone, doxepin, mirtazapine...), although I NEVER combine any of them. I only take melatonin in addition to one of those, and I only do that sometimes. Maybe I should stick with the mirtaz for a couple of weeks, although my doc seemed pretty cavalier about trying this and then trying that, and not just sticking with one. He also said I could take dox and mirtaz together, although I can't get totally comfortable with that idea.

Good luck tonight!
 
Went to bed at 23.00 and i took an extra half tab mirtazapine just to try...guess what, i slept like a rose :)

I slept through the night and i was waken up by my alarm clock!!

Feel so incredible rested its great.

Looks like we are both on a good path suddenly, i wonder how your seconds night was!
 
hey fussbucket i was wondering how your second night was on 15mg mirtazapine?

My psychatrist suggested promethazine for sleeping but i suggested to research the mirtazapine first, perhaps combined with melatonin.
He was enhtousiastic about it, because he told me that my own solution would have a bigger chance to succeed rather then his.
So he prescribed me 60x15mgs to try this month, and we will evaluate it in a month to see where we are at.

Last night i tried 30mg, ik did again sleep slightly longer, but it were still only 5 hours or so and i didnt feel rested this morning.
Tonight i go back to 22.5 to see if indeed that is my magic dose, and im trying 2 mg melatonin along with it.
I feel pretty comfortable knowing that if it turns out not to work, i can go try another med :)

Im curious about how things turned out for you!
 
Last night was actually my third straight night trying 15 mg of mirtazapine. I'm staying with a friend right now and am sleeping on his couch, so I was not expecting a great night. However, I slept pretty well overall.

The thing with these drugs, for me, it's that I still wake up kind of frequently (3-4 times, at least), but if the drugs are working, I can get back to sleep more easily. I took a little while top fall asleep, but once I was asleep I managed to sleep for about 7 hours.

So, I'm going to stick with mirtazapine for now!
 
thats good to hear, fingers crossed your search is over now.

I also tend to wake up several times after a couple of hours, or i am straight awake and cant sleep anymore regardless the time or how long i slept.
I bought melatonin XR 1.9 mg and will add that to my 22.5mg tonight. lets hope it makes me sleep through the nights.
Today sucked, felt tired all day and grumpy. 30 mg is a little too much.
 
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