Benzos New here, but looking for advice on Benzo tapering

[czguy99]

Just wanted to drop you some advice as i recently came off a years of Ativan use.

First off if you have no history of seizures then you can rest assured, its not going to happen at these dosages, its extremely unlikely. Seizures happen when people go cold turkey.

Doing .5mg cuts is easy now but it wont be when you get lower. I've managed to drop from 6mg to 2mg in the past with virtually no withdrawal symptoms. A mate of mine dropped from 4mg to 2mg and again no withdrawals. Once you get to about 1.5mg this will probably become an issue. In my experience dropping from 1.5mg to 1mg is hard and 1mg to .5mg is absolute torture. So once you get to 1.5mg i would advise shaving the pills with a blade and dropping .25mg at the most!

Once you get to 0.5mg i would advise dissolving the pills in a liquid and dropping 0.125mg for each cut or just get as precise as you can with a blade.

Just remember ITS WORTH IT :D

Thanks for chiming in, I have zero history of seizures + I'm on Depakote which in theory would help. I'm just going to keep the pace steady and listen to my body and hopefully work with my doctor. I talked to a mate of mine who rapid tapered in 3 months off of 4mg of Klonopin and he agreed that the initial cuts were easy, but once he got to the home stretch he had to really slow down as it was pretty bad for him. No seizures or anything like that, but rebound anxiety like a mother. I think I can get to 1.5-1mg at a decent pace but I will definitely take your advice about shaving or liquid tapering when I get to that point. I know it's going to be a hard road ahead but you're right it's absolutely worth it. I'm so tired of being on this drug which does nothing but give me chemical dependency.

I think my greatest fear was seizures/death, but the more I read and educate myself I think I'm doing this the right way. My biggest problem is that I have 2 full time jobs, a wife, and a family so I can't afford to go screw-loose and need to function. So I'm hoping the new doc's office will be a bit lenient and help me taper and/or give me more refills so I can taper with comfort.

I'm not a religious person by any means, but if stuff gets bad I may be "finding jesus" lol

 

[Prescottdave]

Just wanted to drop you some advice as i recently came off a years of Ativan use.

First off if you have no history of seizures then you can rest assured, its not going to happen at these dosages, its extremely unlikely. Seizures happen when people go cold turkey.

Doing .5mg cuts is easy now but it wont be when you get lower. I've managed to drop from 6mg to 2mg in the past with virtually no withdrawal symptoms. A mate of mine dropped from 4mg to 2mg and again no withdrawals. Once you get to about 1.5mg this will probably become an issue. In my experience dropping from 1.5mg to 1mg is hard and 1mg to .5mg is absolute torture. So once you get to 1.5mg i would advise shaving the pills with a blade and dropping .25mg at the most!

Once you get to 0.5mg i would advise dissolving the pills in a liquid and dropping 0.125mg for each cut or just get as precise as you can with a blade.

Just remember ITS WORTH IT :D

Though the OP's doses are low people have had sezuire's from similiar curcumstances. Just because someone does not have a documented history of sezuires does not mean it can't happen.

There are loads of studies that pop up on say the NIH showing the reality of sezuires in those conducting tapers. 7 years on clonazepam is a long time.

If possible as the doc stated you should try to switch to a BZD such as Librium or diazepam both of which are extremely long acting.

 

[czguy99]

Though the OP's doses are low people have had sezuire's from similiar curcumstances. Just because someone does not have a documented history of sezuires does not mean it can't happen.

There are loads of studies that pop up on say the NIH showing the reality of sezuires in those conducting tapers. 7 years on clonazepam is a long time.

If possible as the doc stated you should try to switch to a BZD such as Librium or diazepam both of which are extremely long acting.

Definitely understand the risks, and I'm going to work with my doctor to get off this stuff. It's just going to come down to whether or not he's willing to work with me considering I'm going to test positive for THC. Above all I want safety and not become a corpse. I can deal with withdrawals, but my main concern is life. If I can't get the doctor to taper me/cross taper/detox me I'll figure out an alternative source for a cross taper. Or will just take my taper very slowly on my own. I'm trying not to panic about all of this, but at the same time I have to realize that right now I'm ok and going to take it a day at a time.

It should be noted that I've been prescribed benzos since I was 16. I was on a 4mg/day dose of xanax from 16-18. Ended up moving to another state and the doc wouldn't RX it so I went CT. The withdrawal was pretty tough but I didn't seize or have any life threatening complications. It was just a rough 2 months. I was benzo free for about a decade then my doc put me on Klonopin and it's been that way ever since. I'm done with this stuff. I've never had any addiction issues or even tried illicit substances (sans cannabis), but this Klonopin crap grabs you by the horns and rides you. Nasty stuff for sure.

 

[czguy99]

Quick update. I'm about 5-6 days out on my first .5mg cut. I'm not wanting to peel my skin off or anything, but I can definitely say the anxiety symptoms are a bit annoying. No other problems to report. I made the mistake of drinking a huge espresso yesterday morning and that sent me into an anxiety-filled tailspin which was moronic. Had to take a huge dose of L-theanine/Gaba to calm down. Today seems a bit better. Mildly anxious but nothing to write home about. As much as I am scared of what the doctor might tell me when he pops me with a UA, at this point I'm just enjoying each day for what it is and trying not to worry about the "what ifs" that may or may not come.

 

[czguy99]

Quick update. I'm about 5-6 days out on my first .5mg cut. I'm not wanting to peel my skin off or anything, but I can definitely say the anxiety symptoms are a bit annoying. No other problems to report. I made the mistake of drinking a huge espresso yesterday morning and that sent me into an anxiety-filled tailspin which was moronic. Had to take a huge dose of L-theanine/Gaba to calm down. Today seems a bit better. Mildly anxious but nothing to write home about. As much as I am scared of what the doctor might tell me when he pops me with a UA, at this point I'm just enjoying each day for what it is and trying not to worry about the "what ifs" that may or may not come.

Ok, so I was wrong. After 5-6 days I had to slow my cut back down to .25mg/week or so. I thought I was fine this morning then a wave of anxiety hit me so bad that I almost lost my mind. So considering my wife is going into surgery next week and I need to keep my shit together, I am slowing my taper until I can see the doctor on the 9th. My plan is to try .25mg/week or every two weeks provided I have enough to do that.

Part of me feels like I failed miserably but with 2 jobs a wife and family I have to be able to function and not be curled up in bed freaked out.

 

[Scrofula]

If you've got a stressful event coming up, there's no shame in holding your dose where it is for a while. Take your stressors one-at-a-time.

 

[mIKE420]

Maybe explain all of this to your doctor and if she does decide to take you off your medication chances are she will taper u down slowly anyway considering benzo withdrawl can be very serious and even fatal.

 

[czguy99]

If you've got a stressful event coming up, there's no shame in holding your dose where it is for a while. Take your stressors one-at-a-time.

You're right, I'm going to hold at the .25mg cut and see what happens. The wife goes into surgery next week so the last thing I need to do is be in withdrawals and not be able to take care of her.

 

[czguy99]

Maybe explain all of this to your doctor and if she does decide to take you off your medication chances are she will taper u down slowly anyway considering benzo withdrawl can be very serious and even fatal.

That's my plan, my NP from my other doctor moved over to the new doctor and will be treating me. I've already sent them a note ahead of time informing them of my need to taper slowly/cross taper off this medication and included all sorts of medical literature to back how serious benzo withdrawal can be. I also gave them examples of when I was cut in 2015 by my old NP in an attempts to taper me down 3mg -> 1.5mg in one day and it was 8 months of hell. All I can do now is wait till the 9th, see what they say. At this point I'm willing to stop the cannabis use just to get a proper slow taper off of the benzos. The cannabis will always be there later if I choose to pick it back up. But if they require a clean UA, then I'll do my best to give it to them. Again, scared shitless of all of this as there are so many unknowns, but it's time to get off this shit.

 

[czguy99]

Just an update. I'm still at 2.75mg and holding steady. Last week when my wife was in surgery my anxiety was through the roof. She's recovering nicely and things are calming down. Tomorrow is the appointment with the nurse practitioner at the new psychiatrist. I was absolutely scared shitless that they'd kick me off of benzos c/t but at this point, I just have to let go and stop worrying about it because it's going to drive me insane thinking about it. I'm just going to be honest with them and tell them why I consume cannabis (because the anxiety meds don't work) and I'm willing to give it up if I have to, but I want a different drug, safe taper, and to be healthy again. I'll post an update tomorrow after my appointment, wish me luck and thanks for your support.

 

[czguy99]

Update. I had my appointment with the NP and they didn't give me a UA. I told them how bad I wanted to taper down and he applauded that and would love to help me. But he said due to the fact that I'm going through so much stress at home/work he said it's too risky to my mental health to start withdrawing. Come to find out he's very familiar with the Ashton manual, and he said in 2 month we will start an EXTREMELY slow and careful taper and then cross taper to keep me comfortable. In the mean time he said to bump back from from 2.75 to 3mg to stabilize. I feel like I'm farther off from my goal of kicking the benzos, but at least I have a supportive doctor who's willing to help me. He suggested .25mg cuts every 3-4 weeks as tolerated until we get down to 1-1.5mg then cross tapering with valum and slowing down the K taper.

He also prescribed me seroquel for sleep since I've had so many problems lately. Took 50mg of it last night and I slept like a baby and feel calm as a god damned zen monk today

 

[Keif' Richards]

We can certainly give you advice regarding taper schemes, but I truly feel that your best course of action is to be totally upfront with your prescriber from the beginning. Don't wait for the urinalysis. You already know you'll most likely be positive, so what is there to lose? Sit down and look your PsyD in the eye and tell them the same things that you've told us. You're an occasional user of Cannabis and it has a very positive effect upon your anxiety and doesn't produce any apparent negative symptoms.

I believe that your prescriber, if they are reasonable, will appreciate your up front honesty and will be much more inclined to work with you on it. The type of prescribers who mandate urinalyses for their patients get wicked hard-ons for folks who are totally honest without them having to pry the information out of you. This is my advice. I really think you should take it.

If this doesn't work out and your prescriber says absolutely no to the Cannabis, then we will go from there, but I have high hopes that the honesty route will get you the best results. Don' be anxious. There's no reason to be worried, because what does it help?

 

[czguy99]

We can certainly give you advice regarding taper schemes, but I truly feel that your best course of action is to be totally upfront with your prescriber from the beginning. Don't wait for the urinalysis. You already know you'll most likely be positive, so what is there to lose? Sit down and look your PsyD in the eye and tell them the same things that you've told us. You're an occasional user of Cannabis and it has a very positive effect upon your anxiety and doesn't produce any apparent negative symptoms.

I believe that your prescriber, if they are reasonable, will appreciate your up front honesty and will be much more inclined to work with you on it. The type of prescribers who mandate urinalyses for their patients get wicked hard-ons for folks who are totally honest without them having to pry the information out of you. This is my advice. I really think you should take it.

If this doesn't work out and your prescriber says absolutely no to the Cannabis, then we will go from there, but I have high hopes that the honesty route will get you the best results. Don' be anxious. There's no reason to be worried, because what does it help?

Thanks so much for your reply. I omitted the fact that I talked to my NP and told him that I had to use Cannabis while tapering. He said, "Ok, well it's not the end of the world but we'd like to see you discontinue it, we are more concerned with "hard drugs". He still agreed to taper me extremely slowly and safely as he was overjoyed that I want to quit benzos. Also, he was my NP at another practice and knew from my files I had a history of Cannabis use so it really wasn't "shell shock" to him.

 

[Scrofula]

That's great you have support. And I've always felt that when people do have support, and their health isn't at risk, there's no need for a crash diet; much easier to go slow and steady, take your time, no rush.

There aren't any awards for completing a benzo taper in heroically short time (I'll personally clap for you, but most people feel dissatisfied with that); and no shame in taking an entire year to do one. The more comfortable your ride, the less likely you are to relapse or substitute some other drug.

So be happy, and enjoy your slow march to benzo freedom.

 

[czguy99]

That's great you have support. And I've always felt that when people do have support, and their health isn't at risk, there's no need for a crash diet; much easier to go slow and steady, take your time, no rush.

There aren't any awards for completing a benzo taper in heroically short time (I'll personally clap for you, but most people feel dissatisfied with that); and no shame in taking an entire year to do one. The more comfortable your ride, the less likely you are to relapse or substitute some other drug.

So be happy, and enjoy your slow march to benzo freedom.

You're absolutely right. No sense in rushing this since I want to be comfortable as possible and function at work, take care of the wife and family as well. Well I can definitely say the taper he's proposing will be 8-10 months in length which I think is doable starting at 3mg. As long as I don't go backwards I'll be happy. I'm so sick of the benzos after years that I know deep down I'll not relapse, especially since I've never abused them (always taken as rx'd). I'll definitely keep you guys updated once I start my taper, but for now I'm cruising and thrilled that I have a good support system

 

[czguy99]

Update. The NP I saw left the practice, so today I met with the head Psych doc. He reviewed my records and informed me he could no longer treat me due to my admission of "drug use". He gave me an RX for 1 month of 3mg/day (90 pills) and said to start tapering .5mg/week (currently at 2.5mg). I mean I respect the fact that it's HIS practice and he can do what he wants. But now I'm going to have to work with what he prescribed me + the 1 other full bottle I just refilled normally. So 180 1mg pills to taper to zero.

Is this even possible without me dying?

I'm going to call other psychs to see if they can help. A friend of mine has a psych which is basically a pill doc, but he's got a 3 month waiting list.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[czguy99]

Small update...

I reached out to a friend of mine who has a "pill doc psych", he doesn't take any insurance whatsoever but will give you what you need. So I paid $300 to see him yesterday and told him about my taper. He agreed to taper me from 3mg to 2mg for 3-4 months, then drop by .5 each month until I'm down to zero. He said the initial 1mg cut may be tough but he said I likely won't miss it (i do recall doing this before and 3 to 2 wasn't bad as long as I kept the dosing steady throughout the day. Going to be a long hard road, but better than nothing. I told him about cannabis use and he said, "It could be worse, you could be on H/M/C". Shrug

 

[Mmp85]

How much Depakote do you take? I take 1,000 mgs for mood stabilization although the recommended dose is 1500 mgs it was too heavy for me. I can't imagine you possibly being at risk for a seizure while on Depakote, it's stronger than most detox meds other than phenobarb. And then adding in Seroquel. I think you're pretty safe physically. I take klonopin and don't feel physical side effects from missing a dose because of my other meds.

 

[czguy99]

Thanks for responding. I take 500mg 2x/day for mood stabilization as well. The seroquel is only 50mg but helps keep me chilled out. Missing a dose of Klonopin isn't a big deal, but dropping 1mg is a pretty fucking steep cut. So I'm going to have to really "suck it up".

 

[Mmp85]

Yeah it's going to suck anxiety wise but physically I think you'll be fine.