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Harm Reduction New! - Cold Water Extraction Mega Thread & FAQ

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Its already been pointed out by Mr B and dokomo (it doesnt hurt to be redundant when correcting misinformation), but in response to Chemical Vibrations saying APAP is not water soluble, that is wrong. It is water soluble. The warmer the water, the more soluble it is, so suggesting that a COLD water extraction be done with warm water pretty much defeats the purpose. It has to be cold because APAP is practically insoluble in cold water.
 
Is this safe?? Alteration on the CWE t-shirt method

This seems almost too obvious a suggestion, but I haven't seen any information about it yet, it's just a simple change to the suggested t-shirt CWE. In my case, using ibuprofen or APAP codeine tablets.

OK, so your filtering your chilled substance through an ice water wetted t-shirt. The process slows quickly as the solids block the filtration area. Shuffling the substance along in the t-shirt is going to increase the surface area used, and waste some of your codeine, or other opiate.

Instead, why not just lift the t-shirt up directly above the container your filtering into, cup it so no solution can escape out the top, and squeeze it like milking a cow. I tried this using N+ tablets last night, and it was very fast, and left a relatively liquid free mass. Surely if getting a dangerous amount of APAP or ibuprofen in your final solution were actually a risk here, then the t-shirt method would have never been suggested?

Should I try a second filter just to be safe? The substance seemed no cloudier than usual. Although this is always going to waste some of your product, and seems unnecessary.

Any thoughts? Thanks.
 
Merging question about CWE into CWE mega thread.

I always squeeze the filter, I'm not a patient person... it most likely lets more APAP/ibuprofen into the solution though. :\
 
Mr Blonde said:
Merging question about CWE into CWE mega thread.

I always squeeze the filter, I'm not a patient person... it most likely lets more APAP/ibuprofen into the solution though. :\
Click to expand...

same here but I'm still alive. Does anyone else find that (with different brands) no matter how good the filtering process you are still left with a cloudy solution. I get a near perfect clear solution with some but others are cloudy. I have also found that with different brands there seems to be alot more sludge at the bottom of the glass before filtering. My guess is that it's the binder's used, but the tablets are the same size and the same amount are used??
 
^ Binders and fillers mos def affect the appearance of the solution; some tablets I use I always get a milky solution out of no matter how well I filter, others are pretty clear until I squeeze the filter.
 
I guess if your filtering APAP instead of ibuprofen, it matters far less if you squeeze the t-shirt or other filtration implement, because even if you get a bit more in your solution, it's not going to be anything close to the LD50 for APAP unless you've made a mistake. I believe it's about 8 grams for an average person.

Whereas with ibuprofen, a bit more in the solution in the long-run could potentially lead to stomach ulcers, or other problems. Especially given that the codeine doesn't separate in the solution like it does with APAP, so your forced to squeeze every part of that gunk, and how ever you go, it's a much less efficient method than using APAP in terms of the % of codeine you get out of it.
 
If done correctly only using a tight woven cloth filterd once. How many 5/500 hydrocodone/apap pills could a person ingest in a 24hr period? When doing 10 in 50ml's of water, how much apap would be feft over?
 
^ If you estimate using a minimum amount of APAP in solution; 1 gram dissolves in 100mL of water at around 21C. So 50mL would result in half a gram of APAP in the solution.

So if staying below the 4 gram threshold, you could do 80 hydrocodone pills a day.

Of course, you also have to factor in that the fabric you are using as a filter may not be catching all the APAP in solution. Also, if the water you are using is not 21C but rather room temperature or something, that will affect the APAP levels as well.
 
Mr Blonde said:
^ If you estimate using a minimum amount of APAP in solution; 1 gram dissolves in 100mL of water at around 21C. So 50mL would result in half a gram of APAP in the solution.

So if staying below the 4 gram threshold, you could do 80 hydrocodone pills a day.

Of course, you also have to factor in that the fabric you are using as a filter may not be catching all the APAP in solution. Also, if the water you are using is not 21C but rather room temperature or something, that will affect the APAP levels as well.
Click to expand...

I'm using a tightly woven linen type cloth and chilling about 50ml of solution in the freezer to it just starts forming ice cyrstals.
 
^ Tightly woven... well you should get minimal APAP getting through, unless it's a lab grade filter I bet particles will still get through but nothing you should worry about.

Cooling the water down that far I'm not sure how much more it will reduce the amount of APAP going into solution, not that much as far as I'm aware.
 
I just did 6 in about 40 ml's of water. Each pill weighs .7 grams so equals it 4.7 grams for all 6. I semi dried the leftovers and it weighed about 4 grams?

I also took 100 mg's of hydroxyzine and a 100 mg of tramadol and ate a small grapefruit,(didn't have juice.)and now I think I'll smoke some weed lol.=D
 
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Ok, so you should have a little less then 30mg of hydrocodone in there.

That leaves 670mg approximately of other material in solution; I'd say a lot of that will be soluble binders and fillers and the rest the APAP that got into solution.

Fucking hell I hate maths but I'll try and work this out...

There should be roughly 400mg of APAP in there I guess, so there'd be about 260mg of soluble binders and fillers? Give or take on all values depending on the effectiveness of the filter.

It sounds like you should be in for some fun though. ;)
 
Mr Blonde said:
Ok, so you should have a little less then 30mg of hydrocodone in there.

That leaves 670mg approximately of other material in solution; I'd say a lot of that will be soluble binders and fillers and the rest the APAP that got into solution.

Fucking hell I hate maths but I'll try and work this out...

There should be roughly 400mg of APAP in there I guess, so there'd be about 260mg of soluble binders and fillers? Give or take on all values depending on the effectiveness of the filter.

It sounds like you should be in for some fun though. ;)
Click to expand...

I wish I could get otc codine here. How does it compare to Hydrocodone? The solution was still a little milky
 
^ Unfortunately I can't compare them as hydrocodone was discontinued in Australia about a decade ago. :\

A lot of people dislike codeine but I love it; it's easy to get, makes me warm and sedated and euphoric. I've also been able to go way above the ceiling dose most people encounter, when I add an anti-histamine the effects are quite nice. ;)

Yeah, my solution is always cloudy or milky depending on what brands I use. Probably because I squeeze the hell outta the filter, but it also has to do with what binders and fillers are used as the cloudy/milky effect differs from brand to brand.
 
Mr Blonde said:
Ok, so you should have a little less then 30mg of hydrocodone in there.

That leaves 670mg approximately of other material in solution; I'd say a lot of that will be soluble binders and fillers and the rest the APAP that got into solution.

Fucking hell I hate maths but I'll try and work this out...

There should be roughly 400mg of APAP in there I guess, so there'd be about 260mg of soluble binders and fillers? Give or take on all values depending on the effectiveness of the filter.

It sounds like you should be in for some fun though. ;)
Click to expand...

I added incorrectly .7x6=4.2 grams so there was only 200mg's. I'm guessing here, but if you minus 28 mg's of hydro from 200 you would get only get 172 mg's of apap and filler.

EDIT:
I just thought of something. If each pill is 700 mg's in total weight. Then there's 195 mg's of filler in each pill.

6x195=1170 filler 4g-1170=2830 leftover apap minus known filler weight. I filtered out approximately 2830 mgs out 3000 known apap. Am I correct here lol?
 
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Anyone know roughly how soluble, soluble (dihdro)codeine tablets are? For a CWE

Hey, sorry if this has been covered, but searching for 'codeine' and 'soluble' in titles didn't yield a result.

I want to do a cold water extraction on some soluble dihdrocodeine tablets, and am aware that only so much of even soluble tablets can dissolve in water. I have 12 tablets, which = 7.5mg dihdrocodeine = roughly 15mg codeine. 12x15= the equivalent of about 180mg codeine, correct?

I'm going to swallow 5-6 N+'s with it, knowing at least THAT is safe at such quantities . Now, does anyone know how roughly how much of the APAP dissolves in water with soluble dihdrocodeine or regular codeine tablets?

Accounting for a body weight of 140lb, with other statistics, I worked out, and had confirmed that the LD50 of APAP for me would be about 8grams. So how much water do you think I could safely use here for a t-shirt CWE? 50ml? 100ml? I know, 12 tablet could only possibly yield 6grams, but I'm asking for future reference, as to whether or not it could be a sustainable practice.

Thanks, you've been so helpful in the past.
 
I would assume that dihydrocodeine is completely water soluble. APAP is soluble approx. 1000mg/100ML of water.

And I have no idea how you came up with your LD50, but thats not correct. LD50 is tested in rats, and has to kill 50% of the rats. Rats and humans are different. I can tell you the approximate toxic dose for you. Its 200mg/kg. You said your 140lbs, so that converts to 63.6kg. So your approximate toxic dose is 12.7g. This means that its becomes dangerous, not that its going to kill you. If you do a one time dose of 8g, then you will be okay. Dont ever exceed this figure, and dont take 8g all the time.
 
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I don't know the solubility of DHC off the top of my head, but I know the solubility of acetaminophen and thats just as good. Less than 500mg of acetaminophen will dissolve in 100mL water. So you could use way more water; you're barely going to get any APAP in solution. Use whatever amount makes the CWE easiest for you.
 
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