neurotransmitter receptor sites down regualtion

[Helios.]

Dammit, Jim.

 

[Shari17]

About my post

^I think this is the most hilarious part of your post...

I'm sorry but if you have an issue with a mod take it to pm. There's no need to rant about your constitutional rights on a drug website. Take a warning as that instead of a personal attack. Back on topic ----->

When I logged on yesterday, the furthest thing from my mind was writing the kind of post I ended up writing. I hope that you and others will understand, but when the first thing to hit me was a threat that I might be banned from the board because of a signature line that one person found offensive (and it would not have made a difference if 50 people didn't like it) I flew off the handle. I apologize to you and to others for my outburst but, after all, someone was trying to impeach my freedom of speech by threatening me. Do you really think that was right?

As far as the other things you mentioned that I should have done, you have to remember that I'm fairly new to these boards and I don't know what you mean by "mod" or "pm."

Shari

By Golda Meir

We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will never have peace with the Arabs until they learn to love their children more than they hate us.

 

[Dr. Beat]

When I logged on yesterday, the furthest thing from my mind was writing the kind of post I ended up writing. I hope that you and others will understand, but when the first thing to hit me was a threat that I might be banned from the board because of a signature line that one person found offensive (and it would not have made a difference if 50 people didn't like it) I flew off the handle. I apologize to you and to others for my outburst but, after all, someone was trying to impeach my freedom of speech by threatening me. Do you really think that was right?

As far as the other things you mentioned that I should have done, you have to remember that I'm fairly new to these boards and I don't know what you mean by "mod" or "pm."

Shari

By Golda Meir

well if your fairly new to this, then how about being HUMBLE (and not a stereo typical arrogant american) and just sitting back and LEARNING A BIT before you start raming your views on all of us.

For starters, lots of people on Bluelight are from australia and other countries, and BilZor is from New Zealand i think, so we dont give a FUCK about your constitution, because this is the global internet.

And that quote may sound good to you, and it may be good Jewish logic, but i find it pretty dumb, like some other people do on bluelight, and is why i am not suprised that ISRAEL is currently fighting its neibours AGAIN.

I am Not saying the lebonese are any better - I am in Australia, and currently live in a large Lebonese and Arab Muslim suburb, and the boys/young men can be very agressive and egotistical at the best of times.

10 years ago i lived in a Jewish suburb for 1 year and found jewish people very strange to say the least.

I believe that both Jewish and Lebonese have a very high rate of undiagnosed bi-polor illness that is mostly UNMEDICATED, and they would do well putting something like Lithium or Sodium Valproate in the water in ISRAEL and LEBANON and PALESTINE (and IRAQ). It would stop alot of the fighting.

Just my 2c

 

[Dr. Beat]

These are interesting considerations. Valid ones.

Here's one I've often thought about. On the paternal side of my family, my grandfather suffered with Parkinson's Disease (PD) and so does my father (his son). I've known it could be a genetic illness in some cases even before the researchers felt sure enough about this to talk about it publicly. For me, it has always been obvious that in (SOME) families it can be genetic. While I don't know the answer to the question posed here I have wondered, for a long time, whether or not the genetic form of PD would predispose their offspring to addiction. It is well known that in PD the neurotransmitters in the brain (or other vital brain chemicals) are seriously affected. PD patients develop the symptoms of the disease because they are lacking (and/or have low levels) of dopamine and other chemicals that cause the symptoms.

The children of the genetic form of PD, while they might not get the disease itself, may be predisposed to developing drug addictions. Opiates and other drugs might replace levels of these important chemicals that may run low enough to cause a predilection to substance abuse but not low enough to cause the Parkinson's itself. In my own family there are several of us who wandered into addiction because (I'm just theorizing) the chemicals in the brain were so low that once a narcotic was taken, was introduced, it (speaking only for myself) replaced that chemical-something that was missing and, even after just one dose I felt, not high, but normal (I can't explain this feeling).

I'm not saying that there was no euphoria at the beginning but I was 11 when I first had to use Percodan because of incapacitating menstrual cramps. I remember feeling that rush but it didn't last very long, even at that young age. Yes, I became a drug addict who hates alcohol but "needs" Opiates. The reason I'm making a point of this is because I come from a very nice, upper middle class family and I had a wonderful childhood. THE BEST! It was the best time in my life and it should have worked AGAINST drug addiction (and I didn't become addicted until I was in my late twenties, early thirties). Is it nurture of nature? In my case it was most definitely NOT NURTURE.

I would love to do some research on this hypothesis. If it turns out that children of people with PD have a statistically significant chance of developing drug addiction, then we can turn this disease (addiction) from one that needs treatment in order to get to recovery to a form of this disease that can be prevented in the first place. Any more ideas? Anyone interested in this for a research project? Treatment vs. prevention. This should be looked into and some studies ought to be done.

By the way, I had the hardest time getting off the drugs. I had to go through treatment six times. I was quite a lost cause until approx. 12-13 years ago when I found Buprenex.

Shari

My story is identical (except the menstrual cramps - I got IBS), and i totally agree with you 100%

 

[Shari17]

Keep it coming

well if your fairly new to this, then how about being HUMBLE (and not a stereo typical arrogant american) and just sitting back and LEARNING A BIT before you start raming your views on all of us.

I made an apology. What more can I do and still keep my pride. Pride and humility are amazingly two sides of the same coin. I'm not trying to ram my views on everyone. I've been seeing messages, because of my signature line, from people who don't know me and don't even know how to be polite, in any sense of the word. I'm not writing messages back using the kind of language even you have used. I think you need to also sit back a bit, as well. Do you understand everything? Let's see some humility.

And that quote may sound good to you, and it may be good Jewish logic, but i find it pretty dumb, like some other people do on bluelight, and is why i am not suprised that ISRAEL is currently fighting its neibours AGAIN.

It isn't logic. If there was any logic to any of this the Arabs would stop attacking and doing suicide bombings and there would be peace. Israel is fighting its neighbors AGAIN because they were attacked first, AGAIN. Talk about needing to learn more...geesh! What would you do if you were attacked, sit there and let them shoot you and your family?

For starters, lots of people on Bluelight are from australia and other countries, and BilZor is from New Zealand i think, so we dont give a FUCK about your constitution, because this is the global internet.

So, I get it. You would rather be without free speech? My friend, it doesn't matter where you are from, freedom of speech is a human right. Without it you would be a puppet and wouldn't be allowed to say some of the things you say. That's brilliant! Not!

I am Not saying the lebonese are any better

This may come as a shock to you but I don't care what you think about the Lebanese. One on one, people are generally pleasant to each other.

10 years ago i lived in a Jewish suburb for 1 year and found jewish people very strange to say the least.

So you do have a comic side, after all. In what way are the Jewish people strange? Well, I'm sure they must find you very strange, to say the least.

I believe that both Jewish and Lebonese have a very high rate of undiagnosed bi-polor illness that is mostly UNMEDICATED, and they would do well putting something like Lithium or Sodium Valproate in the water in ISRAEL and LEBANON and PALESTINE (and IRAQ). It would stop alot of the fighting.

Now I'm going to make you laugh Mr. undiagnosed bi-polar. I'm a licensed clinical therapist so you will be a laughing stock if you continue to throw DSM-111 or 1V or V- R terms up to me. I suppose you have your own personality deviations. LOL - I can't stop laughing.

Oh, and by the way, your 2 cents isn't even worth a 0. 8)

 

[Tilted]

I'm not sure how it works, but it's probably similar to how plants take up nutrients. They will only absorb what they need, and leave the rest. If you pre-load with more tyrosine than your body needs, then it will probably just excrete what it doesn't need.

Agreed.

 

[rnd.id.]

On a completely different note; It is very unlikely that whatever genetic predilection to Parkinson's you have (or don't have, it could easily be environmental), would cause drug taking. If anything, a lack of dopamine would cause resistance to drug addiction, not the other way around.

I have been wondering about this...

Maybe a low level of dopamine would decrease addiction in the sense of simple reinforcement and craving -- but on the other hand, someone with low dopamine levels might feel more functional and more "complete" after taking dopaminergic drugs, which could lead to a psychological/conscious liking of the drug (as opposed to simple reinforcement learning).

This is all speculation - I'm not a neuroscientist

 

[Shari17]

Maybe a low level of dopamine would decrease addiction in the sense of simple reinforcement and craving -- but on the other hand, someone with low dopamine levels might feel more functional and more "complete" after taking dopaminergic drugs, which could lead to a psychological/conscious liking of the drug (as opposed to simple reinforcement learning).

This is all speculation - I'm not a neuroscientist

I really think it is the opposite way around. A low level of dopamine and other chemicals and endorphins in the brain might INCREASE the chances of a person becoming addicted.

Yes, my father takes those drugs for his Parkinson's. However, I was talking about a person's risk of becoming addicted to drugs like opiates, etc. If one is born with a tendency to have low levels of these dopaminergic drugs they might just be more comfortable (and less depressed) when they put opiates into their systems. If we could take those who have a low level of this brain chemistry (due to heredity), perhaps we could PREVENT the disease of addiction from happening. The goal in any disease is prevention rather than treatment.

I'm no neuroscientist either. LOL! This is just a thought as my dad (and his dad before him) suffers with Parkinson's Disease and I just wondered if this heredity form of Parkinson's could predispose their children to addiction.:D Sweet Dreams!

 

[yossarian_is_sane!]

Hmm I disagree. I think if a person naturally has a low levels of dopamine or a lower density of Dopamine receptors then normal is going to be defined by that natural low state. I think they would be better at handeling the lower levels of Dopamine caused by the cessation of use. Would a person with higher levels not suffer from a larger 'crash' as it were?

The thing that gets me is that how do you define 'less Dopamine'. Is it a lack of production or less receptors? Because if it is a lower desity of Dopamine receptors then i belive a person with 'less dopamine' would be far less vulnerable to addiction. Less receptors to agonise means more 'resistance' to the effects.

I'm not fully sure if anyone understands how addiction works in its entireity so it may be a moot point.

Mod = Moderator
PM = Personal Message
I'm sure you'll find many threads to your liking in the Political & Current events forums. And about people needing to learn more? That works both ways.

 

[madmick19]

thanks to all that posted in this about the topic,
to those that posted not on topic you are potentiating the problem that when ppl ask a question on BL the ranters take over the thread.......... which i find very dissapointing on both a professional level and as along term member of Bluelight.

these posts dilute the quality of the threads and responses on bluelight to peoples questions, why ask if your going to get 500 off topic responces.

this is advanced drug discussion and should be kept to on topic level, so that we can promote Bluelight as a resouce and not just a bunch of opinionated drug users.

/end rant

 

[Shari17]

Hmm I disagree. I think if a person naturally has a low levels of dopamine or a lower density of Dopamine receptors then normal is going to be defined by that natural low state. I think they would be better at handeling the lower levels of Dopamine caused by the cessation of use. Would a person with higher levels not suffer from a larger 'crash' as it were?

The thing that gets me is that how do you define 'less Dopamine'. Is it a lack of production or less receptors? Because if it is a lower desity of Dopamine receptors then i belive a person with 'less dopamine' would be far less vulnerable to addiction. Less receptors to agonise means more 'resistance' to the effects.

I'm not fully sure if anyone understands how addiction works in its entireity so it may be a moot point.

Mod = Moderator
PM = Personal Message
I'm sure you'll find many threads to your liking in the Political & Current events forums. And about people needing to learn more? That works both ways.

There can be many roads, Yossarian, to the same destination. Therefore, it would make sense to look wherever a road takes us. A person predisposed to addiction because of heredity might have successful prevention techniques. Then again, if it comes about due to a low density of Dopamine receptors, the problem remains the same. We are interested in any research that might take us toward reasons for low brain chemicals be it heredity or receptor sites. The outcome might remain the same - addiction.

Maybe these two different paths will require difference in treatment but the end result is to prevent addiction before it needs to be treated. How can you say that because one person has low levels of these chemicals due to a low number of Dopamine receptors (although I've never heard how one could count the specific receptors) and another person has low levels due to heredity, that the reasons for possible addiction in these two cases are really that important. What is important is the end result. Two people who are living with a decrease of these chemicals in the brain. Maybe we would find out that each case needs different treatment. Just finding that out makes research into neurotransmitters (or transmissions) a very important thing.

I don't think it makes a difference though. If you were treating a long term alcoholic the reasons for the disease, after the fact, mean very little. What is most important is that this person now suffers from the disease of alcoholism and he shouldn't waste time trying to find out why. The question is, what is the alcoholic now going to do about his disease?

Thanks for telling me what those abbrev. 8) mean.​

Shari




[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][/B]

 

[Shari17]

[thanks to all that posted in this about the topic,
to those that posted not on topic you are potentiating the problem that when ppl ask a question on BL the ranters take over the thread.......... which i find very dissapointing on both a professional level and as along term member of Bluelight.

these posts dilute the quality of the threads and responses on bluelight to peoples questions, why ask if your going to get 500 off topic responces.

this is advanced drug discussion and should be kept to on topic level, so that we can promote Bluelight as a resouce and not just a bunch of opinionated drug users.

/end rant[/quote]

​

Hi madmick19

I agree with you, believe it or not. I didn't expect the kinds of reactions I got to a favorite signature line of mine. I often use it in my e-mails (along with other signature lines) and I was bowled over with what happened. At first I felt I had to explain why this was important to me but it is old now and no longer requires any explaination on my part.

So I agree with you. Bluelight seems to have enough topics for everyone.

Keep looking up!

Shari

I agree with you. Bluelight seems to have enough topics for everyone

 

[streetsurfer]

This is an interesting study regarding downregulation and a dosing stratagy to overcome it. I was wondering if I should try the same approach with an SSRI? They always work so damn well at first then stop working after 6 to 8 weeks.

Chronic elevation of brain-derived neurotrophic factor by ampakines.

J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2003 Oct;307(1):297-305. Epub 2003 Jul 31.
"The ampakine CX614 positively modulates alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA) receptor-gated currents and increases brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) expression. In rat hippocampal slice cultures, CX614 rapidly increases BDNF gene expression but with time, mRNA levels fall despite the continued presence of active drug. The present study examined this apparent refractory period and the possibility that spaced ampakine treatments could sustain elevated BDNF protein levels. In cultured hippocampal slices, CX614, a second ampakine CX546, and the cholinergic agonist carbachol each increased BDNF mRNA levels with acute (3-h) treatment. After 4-day pretreatment with CX614, fresh ampakine (CX614 or CX546) did not induce BDNF mRNA, whereas carbachol did. Western blots confirmed that after an extended period of ampakine treatment, AMPA receptor protein levels are indeed reduced, suggesting that with longer treatments receptor down-regulation mediates ampakine insensitivity. Finally, using a "24-h on/24-h off" CX614 treatment protocol, the ampakine refractory state was circumvented, BDNF mRNA was induced with each ampakine application, and elevated BDNF protein levels were maintained through 5 days in vitro. These results suggest that spaced ampakine treatments can be used to sustain elevated neurotrophin levels and to test the utility of this manipulation for neuroprotection by endogenous neurotrophins." [Abstract]

PS, Jews and Lebs are arrogant shits and as bad as each other (every race and country has its faults, this is theirs) and they deserve each other as neighbours
Its called poetic justice Boo Yahh! Can u feel it? Yeah!

 

[streetsurfer]

sorry I just have to add that for americans to vote to have a meat puppet like Dubya in charge of the red button says alot about the national psyche

 

[Helios.]

'Neurotransmitter sites downregulation' is a substitute phrase for the word tolerance.

 

[mexican seafood]

well, first off, this forum is not subject to the laws of the american constitution, or any other constitution of any other nation.

the only constitution with any jurisdiction here is that of the forum rules.

we here at bluelight try not to cause offense to anyone, just as we try not to use bluelight as a marketplace for illicit drugs.
as you can see, Shari, someone got offended, and whether you agree with their reasons for taking offense or not, that's something that bluelight forums do not advocate (hence the benevolent warning of Mr. Bilzor towards what could be classed as "essentially offensive material"). I need not remind you that as a moderator he could have made you remove your signature, but he chose to give you some friendly advice instead, so please don't throw your toys out the pram.

and this is not a forum for politics.
not right here at least.

this is a harm reduction forum, and this is the advanced drug discussion forum.

so everyone, keep your politics under your large advanced-drug-shaped hat, if you please.

I'm not sure how it works, but it's probably similar to how plants take up nutrients. They will only absorb what they need, and leave the rest. If you pre-load with more tyrosine than your body needs, then it will probably just excrete what it doesn't need.

this sounds like good logic to me. that and what smyth said about Le Chatelier's etc.

 

[BigBenn]

I don't want to stumble into someone elses jurisdiction and start firing but this is terrible. Relax people, don't continue the political nature of this thread or I am splitting it and sending all the political shit to worst of bluelight. This is advanced drug discussion people not Redneck Robert Redstate's blog or the ACLU webforum take that shit somewhere else.

 

[scp]

Um, big doses of tryptophan certainly boost serotonin release, which will the down regulate both receptors, and the enzyme that converts tryptophan to 5-HT (probably.)

Would this be true from 5-HTP ingestion alone?

 

[nanobrain]

Shari17, you are an egomaniac with a serious case of loggorhea, suffering from delusions of understanding of basic metabolic principles as well as general ignorance and a bad disposition to boot. i am also certain you are on SSRIs.

BTW, the above is my professional diagnosis as a clinical psychologist.

i am truly surprised Bilzor has let you live this long rather than putting you out of our collective misery. in Sparta, i reckon things would have been different ;-)

 

[Shari17]

BigBenn

I don't want to stumble into someone elses jurisdiction and start firing but this is terrible. Relax people, don't continue the political nature of this thread or I am splitting it and sending all the political shit to worst of bluelight. This is advanced drug discussion people not Redneck Robert Redstate's blog or the ACLU webforum take that shit somewhere else. QUOTE]

If I don't have the right just to respond to the action you are taking then I might as well be in Afganistan in front of a firing squad.

First of all, the signature line you are using against me is just that, a signature line. What happened after that involved a lot of other people and not just me.

Second of all, this would have died down all by itself so there is no reason to issue me points just because BilZ0r doesn't like my signature line. He doesn't have to agree with me. It's merely a personal philosophy. I've used several other images in my posts, not just the one in question.

Third, from now on I'll have to watch what I say because someone might not like it. I just can't believe that because BILZOR finds this signature line distasteful that I alone am going to be issued points. Where am I? In North Korea - in the USSR before it fell - or in Afganistan.

Fourth, I merely responded to what others had to say about the signature line. I used no foul language, nor did I single out one individual to go after. I'm disheartened about posting here anymore.

Fifth, it isn't as though I wasn't making some contribution in posting about
the brain and about neurotransmitters. If people hadn't responded to my signature line with such obvious hatred it never would have become a topic for discussion.

I would really like to understand this. One person dislikes my signature line so I'm issued points? This is not fair! I hope the others read this and see what happens when someones speech is banned and a mark on their person just because of some words in a signature line. Had no one responded to it this never would have become an issue.

People, you better be careful about what you say here. One person is dictating what one can and/or cannot write. This avatar was accepted and it's with my OTHER pictures (and I do have OTHER pictures)!