Misc Neurontin and Lyrica are a Death Sentence for New Brain Synapses

[embryo923]

http://www.wellnessresources.com/fr..._are_a_death_sentence_for_new_brain_synapses/

Neurontin and its newer more potent version, Lyrica, are widely used for off-label indications that are an outright flagrant danger to the public. These blockbuster drugs were approved for use even though the FDA had no idea what they actually did in the brain. A shocking new study shows that they block the formation of new brain synapses¹, drastically reducing the potential for rejuvenating brain plasticity – meaning that these drugs will cause brain decline faster than any substance known to mankind.
The problem of these drugs is compounded by their flagrant illegal marketing. Neurontin was approved by the FDA for epilepsy back in 1994. The drug underwent massive illegal off-label promotion that cost Warner-Lambert 430 million dollars (the very first big fine for off-label promotion). The drug is now owned by Pfizer. Pfizer also owns Lyrica, a super-potent version of Neurontin. It has been approved by the FDA for various types of pain and fibromyalgia. Lyrica is one of four drugs which a subsidiary of Pfizer illegally marketed, resulting in a $2.3 billion settlement against Pfizer.
Even though the marketing of these drugs has been heavily fined, they continue to rack up billions in sales from the off-label uses. Doctors use them for all manner of nerve issues because they are good at suppressing symptoms. However, such uses can no longer be justified because the actual mechanism of the drugs is finally understood and they are creating a significant long-term reduction in nerve health.
The researchers in the above study try to downplay the serious nature of the drugs by saying “adult neurons don’t form many new synapses.” That is simply not true. The new science is showing that brain health during aging relies on the formation of new synapses. Even these researchers managed to question the common use of these medications in pregnant women. How is a fetus supposed to make new nerve cells when the mother is taking a drug that blocks them?
These are the kind of situations the FDA should be all over. As usual, the FDA is sitting around pondering a suicide warning for Lyrica while its off-label uses include bi-polar disorder and migraine headaches. The FDA is likely to twiddle its thumbs for the next decade on the brain damage issue. Consumer beware.

Thoughts? This is disturbing as I've been on Gabapentin for nearly a year. I definitely notice horrible short term memory loss and general mental fogginess while on this drug.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

They both inhibit thrombospondin, the chemcal responbible for the formation of new synapses. And they both can enter neurons; whether or not this causes neuronal damage or not is a matter for discussion

 

[BigG]

I remember when lyrica was first introduced and being one of the first people in the UK to be put on it. At the time pain management doctors were pushing it as some kind of panacea and a vital adnunct to opioids in treating chronic pain. It was thought that without it the neuropathic component of pain was being untreated and by adding lyrica to the mix the total amount of opioids needed could be drastically reduced. It was also thought hat there were no possible dependence issues associated with it and it had no respiratory depression effects either.

Now many years on the story seems to be very different. As well as the issues that the OP has outlined it is known that lyrica does indeed have serious dependence and subsequent withdrawl symptoms associated with it. It was also pointed out to me recently by my GP that it can indeed contribute to respiratory depression when combined with opioids, benzodiazepines and alcohol greatly increasing the overdose risk. Doctors over here are slowly coming around to this and no longer hand it out like candy the way they used to (which very conveniently happens to coincide with Pfizer's patent expiring and generic versions now being sold in the UK).

This isn't the first time that a drug has been introduced that claims so much on my to be found severely wanting and possibly extremely dangerous a few years down the line. Obviously when new drugs are introduced onto the market it takes a while for their use to become widespread enough that a large data set can be obtained to give us a better understanding of it's long term side effect profile. However I can't help be a little sceptical of the fact that it takes years and billions of dollars in profit later for big pharma to realise the dangers of some of these drugs.....

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

The dependendy issues and withdrawal issues were well-known when it came out. All anticonvulsant have severe dependency and witrawal reactions

 

[Felonious Monk]

Is that a trustworthy website?

1. They sell competing herbal products
2. All the links in the article are to their own site

 

[BigG]

The dependendy issues and withdrawal issues were well-known when it came out. All anticonvulsant have severe dependency and witrawal reactions

That's my point. Many of the issues were well known when it came out but were severely underplayed by drug reps and thus prescribers.

The dependence issues with oxycontin were also well known but it still didn't stop it from being marketed as being far less addicting than other opioids.

At the end of the day many prescribing doctors don't bother to do vastly detailed research themselves on some of the drugs they prescribe but tend to go on what the drug companies tell them.....unfortunately drug companies lie....

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Gabapentinoids have many mechanisms of action and we shouldn't be hasty about attributing a particular mechanism to a particular effect, although we may theorycraft.

Gabapentinoid's increase in GABA synthesis could certainly cause memory issues (very well recognized in benzo users), and the decrease in glutamate seen via a decrease in substance P could create cognitive issues as well.

The idea behind antagonism of thrombospondin for chronic pain is that astrocytic thrombospondin might be playing more of a role in synapse formation when astrogliosis severely affects a peripheral nerve after injury/inflammation.

I think the concern with thrombospondin inhibition is more to do with gabapentinoids crossing into the placenta and affecting fetal development (a great concern with all anti-epileptics).

If you want to explain issues with cognition, I would sooner look to blame GABA synthesis and glutamate inhibition, or even dysfunction of network oscillations which are very important for cognition.

 

[tightlywound]

ah man but lyrica's so much fun.
=/

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

Gabapentinoids have many mechanisms of action and we shouldn't be hasty about attributing a particular mechanism to a particular effect, although we may theorycraft.

Gabapentinoid's increase in GABA synthesis could certainly cause memory issues (very well recognized in benzo users), and the decrease in glutamate seen via a decrease in substance P could create cognitive issues as well.

The idea behind antagonism of thrombospondin for chronic pain is that astrocytic thrombospondin might be playing more of a role in synapse formation when astrogliosis severely affects a peripheral nerve after injury/inflammation.

I think the concern with thrombospondin inhibition is more to do with gabapentinoids crossing into the placenta and affecting fetal development (a great concern with all anti-epileptics).

If you want to explain issues with cognition, I would sooner look to blame GABA synthesis and glutamate inhibition, or even dysfunction of network oscillations which are very important for cognition.

In regard to their effects specifically on synapse formation, it has to deal solely on thrombospondin inhibition.

As for doctors not knowing about lyrica dependency and withdrawals or it being downplayed. It is a given and it wasn't downplayed. It is a common and expected effect of all anticonvulsants. Every doctor knows and expects this.

 

[SKR]

^Take it daily for two years or even one year. I can gobble a gram of the stuff (Lyrica) and not 'feel' the drug at all. I take as prescribed 300mgs morning and night which is considered the highest maximum recommended daily dosage (Scary in itself when you consider ow much folks take recreationally). But it does not help my pain and I'm tapering down these days. I seem to be able to halve my daily intake and not suffer any WD.

However, I know WD is there because there was a time when I skipped my doses and at the 48hr mark I started to fall apart having been on the drug 12months at the time. Sweats, weird headaches and general wobbly vision and walking became difficult. So I did the right thing and fled back to my car from the noisy brightly lit noisy supermarket and jumped behind the wheel and drove the short distance home - then took 150mgs and felt normal after about one hour.

If you are in chronic pain in Australia the first thing thy push is Lyrica - pfizer have done a great job marketing this drug, but if you don't take Lyrica you can forget about stronger pain killers like Oxycodone or Oxycontin - what they don't know is that 'Oxycontin' if bought as a Sandoz generic, crushes to a powder and voila - you have oxycodone, so we don't have to suffer those plastic pieces of oxycontin shit....back on topic....Yep if you are not on Lyrica, which they give out like candy especially to those patients in pain then you haven't tried hard enough and you will not get anything else so you have to be on both.

I must say I do wish Lyrica was a full agonist opiate because WD's are no where near as bad as with Oxycodone I don't think.

 

[SKR]

ah man but lyrica's so much fun.
=/

^Take it daily for two years or even one year. I can gobble a gram of the stuff (Lyrica) and not 'feel' the drug at all. I take as prescribed 300mgs morning and night which is considered the highest maximum recommended daily dosage (Scary in itself when you consider ow much folks take recreationally). But it does not help my pain and I'm tapering down these days. I seem to be able to halve my daily intake and not suffer any WD.

However, I know WD is there because there was a time when I skipped my doses and at the 48hr mark I started to fall apart having been on the drug 12months at the time. Sweats, weird headaches and general wobbly vision and walking became difficult. So I did the right thing and fled back to my car from the noisy brightly lit noisy supermarket and jumped behind the wheel and drove the short distance home - then took 150mgs and felt normal after about one hour.

If you are in chronic pain in Australia the first thing thy push is Lyrica - pfizer have done a great job marketing this drug, but if you don't take Lyrica you can forget about stronger pain killers like Oxycodone or Oxycontin - what they don't know is that 'Oxycontin' if bought as a Sandoz generic, crushes to a powder and voila - you have oxycodone, so we don't have to suffer those plastic pieces of oxycontin shit....back on topic....Yep if you are not on Lyrica, which they give out like candy especially to those patients in pain then you haven't tried hard enough and you will not get anything else so you have to be on both.

I must say I do wish Lyrica was a full agonist opiate because WD's are no where near as bad as with Oxycodone I don't think.

 

[chase_in_56ace]

^Take it daily for two years or even one year. I can gobble a gram of the stuff (Lyrica) and not 'feel' the drug at all. I take as prescribed 300mgs morning and night which is considered the highest maximum recommended daily dosage (Scary in itself when you consider ow much folks take recreationally). But it does not help my pain and I'm tapering down these days. I seem to be able to halve my daily intake and not suffer any WD.

However, I know WD is there because there was a time when I skipped my doses and at the 48hr mark I started to fall apart having been on the drug 12months at the time. Sweats, weird headaches and general wobbly vision and walking became difficult. So I did the right thing and fled back to my car from the noisy brightly lit noisy supermarket and jumped behind the wheel and drove the short distance home - then took 150mgs and felt normal after about one hour.

If you are in chronic pain in Australia the first thing thy push is Lyrica - pfizer have done a great job marketing this drug, but if you don't take Lyrica you can forget about stronger pain killers like Oxycodone or Oxycontin - what they don't know is that 'Oxycontin' if bought as a Sandoz generic, crushes to a powder and voila - you have oxycodone, so we don't have to suffer those plastic pieces of oxycontin shit....back on topic....Yep if you are not on Lyrica, which they give out like candy especially to those patients in pain then you haven't tried hard enough and you will not get anything else so you have to be on both.

I must say I do wish Lyrica was a full agonist opiate because WD's are no where near as bad as with Oxycodone I don't think.

I've taken so much neurontin over the years SKR... I read your entire post twice and didnt realize it until the last word:/

Pretty sure they dont call it MoronTIN for nothing lol...

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

The TIN in Neurontin come from tin in gabapentin

 

[tacodude]

No wonder I ended up trying to cut my wrist for the first time and Jill myself due to gabapentin.... I hope a class action lawsuit occurs

 

[tightlywound]

uuugh I don't know whyyy aaaanyone on this fucking planet thinks gabapentin is an enjoyable recreational drug. I took 1200mg a bit ago to put me off food for the rest off the day and honestly all I feel is nauseous and the best way to describe it is "woozy" and tired. I feel gross. but I'm definitely not going to eat anything else today feeling this so mission accomplished. fuck.

 

[bamos]

Is that a trustworthy website?

1. They sell competing herbal products
2. All the links in the article are to their own site

Definitely looks like an ad.

"The xyz supplement line contains 90+ science-based nutritional supplements formulated by Byron J. Richards, Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist." ...who coincidentally wrote this article.

The study just says that pregnant women should be careful taking Gabapentin, because of the possible effect on fetal brain development. Ok... pregnant women should be careful taking any medication, shouldn't they?

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

No wonder I ended up trying to cut my wrist for the first time and Jill myself due to gabapentin.... I hope a class action lawsuit occurs

A class action lawsuit shouldn't occur because you had a bad reaction. Millions of people get extraordinary relief from this drug and it improves their life dramatically. It is your responsibility to understand the risks before taking it

 

[chase_in_56ace]

^Take it daily for two years or even one year. I can gobble a gram of the stuff (Lyrica) and not 'feel' the drug at all. I take as prescribed 300mgs morning and night which is considered the highest maximum recommended daily dosage (Scary in itself when you consider ow much folks take recreationally). But it does not help my pain and I'm tapering down these days. I seem to be able to halve my daily intake and not suffer any WD.

However, I know WD is there because there was a time when I skipped my doses and at the 48hr mark I started to fall apart having been on the drug 12months at the time. Sweats, weird headaches and general wobbly vision and walking became difficult. So I did the right thing and fled back to my car from the noisy brightly lit noisy supermarket and jumped behind the wheel and drove the short distance home - then took 150mgs and felt normal after about one hour.

If you are in chronic pain in Australia the first thing thy push is Lyrica - pfizer have done a great job marketing this drug, but if you don't take Lyrica you can forget about stronger pain killers like Oxycodone or Oxycontin - what they don't know is that 'Oxycontin' if bought as a Sandoz generic, crushes to a powder and voila - you have oxycodone, so we don't have to suffer those plastic pieces of oxycontin shit....back on topic....Yep if you are not on Lyrica, which they give out like candy especially to those patients in pain then you haven't tried hard enough and you will not get anything else so you have to be on both.

I must say I do wish Lyrica was a full agonist opiate because WD's are no where near as bad as with Oxycodone I don't think.

The TIN in Neurontin come from tin in gabapentin

No shit... Jesus you're annoying as fuck

 

[BigG]

A class action lawsuit shouldn't occur because you had a bad reaction. Millions of people get extraordinary relief from this drug and it improves their life dramatically. It is your responsibility to understand the risks before taking it

You don't think perhaps his doctors (and by extension the drug companies advising the doctors) are the ones with the responsibility to fully explain the potential risks to the patient first?

I'm not sure if you just say these things with the intention of offending people or not but you're doing a pretty good job......

 

[tightlywound]

^Take it daily for two years or even one year. I can gobble a gram of the stuff (Lyrica) and not 'feel' the drug at all. I take as prescribed 300mgs morning and night which is considered the highest maximum recommended daily dosage (Scary in itself when you consider ow much folks take recreationally). But it does not help my pain and I'm tapering down these days. I seem to be able to halve my daily intake and not suffer any WD.

However, I know WD is there because there was a time when I skipped my doses and at the 48hr mark I started to fall apart having been on the drug 12months at the time. Sweats, weird headaches and general wobbly vision and walking became difficult. So I did the right thing and fled back to my car from the noisy brightly lit noisy supermarket and jumped behind the wheel and drove the short distance home - then took 150mgs and felt normal after about one hour.

If you are in chronic pain in Australia the first thing thy push is Lyrica - pfizer have done a great job marketing this drug, but if you don't take Lyrica you can forget about stronger pain killers like Oxycodone or Oxycontin - what they don't know is that 'Oxycontin' if bought as a Sandoz generic, crushes to a powder and voila - you have oxycodone, so we don't have to suffer those plastic pieces of oxycontin shit....back on topic....Yep if you are not on Lyrica, which they give out like candy especially to those patients in pain then you haven't tried hard enough and you will not get anything else so you have to be on both.

I must say I do wish Lyrica was a full agonist opiate because WD's are no where near as bad as with Oxycodone I don't think.

I wouldn't want to take it daily ...it would ruin the "magic." and although I'm sure it would have great therapeutic effects for me at first, that would only last a couple weeks at most before my tolerance was too high to get anything therapeutic out of it.
if I had a scrip for say 75mg lyrica 3x/day I'd probably take 15-20 pills about once a month, maaaybe occasionally twice a month. and if I had a lot of extra I'd share it w/ people I know -- either give it away or sell it, I don't know but I'd want other people to experience how fun lyrica is. =)