Need some advice from experienced psychonauts :)

[FooloftheSun]

Hi all, I'm completely new to the whole forum thing here so, bear with my inexperience.

I've been very much fascinated with the notion of psychedelic experiences for quite some time now, and I think it's about time that I get my head out of internet and experience it for myself. But see, the thing is, I'm pretty hesitant about diving into it, which I guess most people are to some degree... I'll give you some back story...

Back in May of 2013, I smoked marijuana for the first time. I didn't smoke much whatsoever, so it was relatively uneventful. The second time, however, was different; I smoked it with two close friends in a forest. Not only was I naive to the power of this plant, but I was very keen to explore this new state of being, so I smoked quite a bit; well, a lot, for my second experience. Too much for someone so inexperienced. I was zonked and shit started to go stop-motion and slow-motion and I began freaking the fuck out at how foreign and unexpected all this was . It was extremely intense and I felt like my entire world was spiralling out of control. I didn't end up calming down and I spent the next weeks questioning what the hell happened. It's clear to me now, but at the time I had no idea what an anxiety attack even was. Being so naive, I was pretty convinced that what ever happened had flicked some switches in my brain because everything was just... different. Am I going crazy? Am I already crazy?

The next time I did it was in July of 2013. Still intensely wondering what had happened that day and why, I decided to smoke again. I took a single drag and suddenly was overcome by the same intense feeling of my whole world spiralling out of control. I didn't think I was going to die either times, it just got extremely out of hand, and I spent the rest of the night gripping on to my bed for dear life and didn't sleep. Still naive to what was happening and why, this experienced refreshed my feelings of "craziness" to the intensity they had been the first time.

3 days later, I got on a plane to visit family in Croatia. I was on various flights for about 13 hours, and I didn't see the sun set for 36 hours 8(. I had never experienced jet-lag before (well, in 13 years) let alone 9 hour jet-lag. For the next week and a bit, my brain was in dream-mode all day, and wide awake all night; this furthered my feelings of insanity and I developed extremely intense anxiety. In a village 3 hours inland, for the next month and half I tore apart my entire existence and questioned everything I had ever known to be reality. The main theme was basically "Is the universe inside my head, or is my head inside the universe?". I realized that good and bad were totally subjective concepts, as so with time. All the arbitrary ideas of life and existence I had grown up with evaporated. I OBSESSED day and night about the true nature of consciousness and existence. Being alive became pointless, but being dead was equally as pointless. Everything was absolutely meaningless. These thoughts and feelings of derealization gave me anxiety attacks quite generously. I returned to BC, Canada 6 weeks later and I was very different...

My existential anxiety stuck around for a good six 6 months afterwards. At that point it was just a pain in the ass, and I actually would drive myself into fits of derealization for kicks sometimes (sick, I know). At no point in this whole 8 month period did I get any magnitude of depression, I just felt absolutely fucking wacked beyond words, and my only "mental-scar" from this is that I think I'm subconsciously holding onto reality for dear life.

All that being said, I'm very much interested in returning to that mental state of pure discovery; diving back into that wilderness of the mind and consciousness, but without the extremely unpleasant feelings I had when I was in Croatia. I feel that LSD will my ticket there, but obviously I'm hesitant. My only worry is having to endure 10 hours of a trip gone bad, because I "over" thought existence in such a state of expanded awareness. I'm not so much worried about it "cracking" me because, well... been there, done that.

I've smoked weed a good dozen time since my first experiences and I've found I don't really like it; it just seems swampy and delirious to me.

All I'm really asking for is some insight from some experienced pyschonauts. Will my mind be expanded to a degree that any existential thoughts will just flow? How much effort do you think I'll need to put into staying relaxed through an LSD experience?

Pardon my vagueness :/

- Adrian

 

[phatass]

Sounds a bit like the weed triggered a ligh sort of schizoid psychotic episode... i wouldn't venture with any psychs beore seeing a doctor and at least dealing wit your anxiety issues...

 

[rpm]

As with phatass I'd say you experienced acute cannabis psychosis that triggered derealization and depersonalisation. It's not uncommon, but I really wouldn't recommend taking psychedelics. Unfortunately this suggests that you are one of the few people that might have a psychotic episode triggered by these drugs. I may be wrong, but I know people who have had reactions like you to cannabis, and then gone on to lose it on psychedelics. I wish I could say that it would all be fine, but I just don't think it's worth the risk.

Having said that, perhaps you should you go to the doctor to talk about these problems. You might be able to resolve these issues and be in a better place to think about taking psychedelics. However, unfortunately these things are often genetic, so it may be that your brain just isn't built for them.

 

[FooloftheSun]

I neglected to say that my anxiety is totally gone now, in fact, I really don't stress about anything at all and I'm very positive with everything. I love myself and my life and I'm excited to see where I go in life. I feel like that entire period was very situation dependant, as it never happened before and hasn't happened since. It really changed me for the better and I'm actually quite glad it happened.

Being that I nursed (meditation, being rational) myself back to full "sanity" in under six months leads me to think I'm actually quite mentally stable in that corner. I mean, some people who have these kinds of episodes typically have some sort of history, personally or in their family (neither of which I have), and struggle with it for years, decades, or their whole life. I feel great.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I find LSD and pot to be very divergent in their effects; cannabis tends towards the paranoid and the hedonistic, whereas IME LSD has tended toward megalomania (like, "Those people out there man, on the other side of the door man... They don't know man! They can't know! We've figured it all out!" feelings hahah) and extremely profound emotions and realizations (such as staring at a brick wall, and realizing how the bricks make up a greater whole, and there are infinitely smaller things within those bricks that make the bricks a whole, etc.) which often leave me feeling like I know the exact size of the universe and like I am one with all things.

For those brief hours on LSD, I don't question my existence... I question how one defines existence. I question how one defines sanity, I question language itself, I question sexuality and I question the existence of the self. Time ceases to exist or have meaning, and I really mean ceases to exist. "Change your mind, and you change your relation to time." *cue groovy guitar rift* LSD is so overwhelmingly... God like in it's effects, for lack of a better term. Cannabis comes nowhere near its profound psychological effects. Before LSD I believed in no higher power... Now after having some intense spiritual LSD trips, I know that at the very least, the universe itself is a living being, and we are a part of it. LSD helped me to appreciate natural beauty, to feel deep emotions from pieces of art (be that music, film or other), and to realize just how insane the world is with its fixation on material goods and everyone's constant obsessions with monotheism and sexuality and "morality".

My advice? Drop two or three tabs of verified LSD. And I mean two or three, I've had a few one tab trips, but they never produced the profound spiritually connected, ego-less experiences that multiple tabs have. If you're truly worried you can take just one, but I feel this is overly cautious. Taking half would just be a plain waste in my book. Best of luck to you!

And remember kids, "If it's bitter, it's a spitter!"

 

[rpm]

Well, everyone is different.

I myself had a really bad experience on acid. Ended up going totally mental and being taken to hospital as I was putting myself in danger and couldn't really be restrained. I came out of it and was pretty much ok the next day. But I spent the next year recovering from the scars. Questioning things. Occasionally I'd have flash backs in my sleep, or look far to deeply into fairly ordinary things. Two years after that I started taking psychedelics again and never looked back. Haven't had a bad time since (that was 8 years ago). So you might be ok.

Thing is that all my knowledge of mental illness, drugs and psychology makes me think that you may well have a predisposition to dissociative type disorders. So I can't recommend it.

Having said all this, you are free to make your own decision. If you do decide to do this then a) don't take much - maybe half a dose (50mics if you know the dosage). b) Have some benzos on hand if things start going down hill, c) have an experienced trip sitter, d) perhaps learn some meditative techniques and lastly don't fight the feelings, just let what happens happen.

 

[rpm]

My advice? Drop a two or three tabs of verified LSD. And I mean a two or three, I've had a few one tab trips, but they never produced the profound spiritually connected, ego-less experiences that multiple tabs have. Best of luck to you!

Really, you think it's in the spirit of harm reduction to suggest taking 2 tabs of strong acid to someone who has had a psychotic reaction to drugs in the past? It might be fine, but it really might not!

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^Well I altered my reply a bit, but my sentiment still stands. A single tab is like "Woohoo lets go party and socialize" while multiple is like, "Hey man, we are the universe." It's up to the OP to decide what he feels works for his situation.

I know many feel that there are psychological risks associated with diving too deep too quick, or simply by taking LSD in the first place, but even a 'bad' trip will have portions where you learn something. When it comes to actual verified LSD, I personally believe there is no risk in dropping a few tabs (mind you away from the public and in a safe setting). Sure people might freak out, but they'll end up fine.

 

[rpm]

Apart from the people who don't end up fine, and find that they suddenly have to deal with psychological problem triggered by their LSD freakout. I am one of the lucky ones, my freak out only gave me a slightly skewed perspective for a bit. Others aren't, believe me, I know some of them. There is no harm in testing the water before jumping in - you can always take a heavy trip later.

 

[FooloftheSun]

I very much appreciate the replies everybody, and with respect to everyone who recommended against it, I don't feel like I could go through this life and not at least experience it once.

And once again, in regards to the "psychotic reaction" to marijuana, I believe that marijuana created a spark of anxiety, and the trip to the opposite side of the planet, to a isolated village that smelled like chicken poo, where nobody spoke English (Zdenci, Croatia) blew that spark into a flame. Had I never gone to Croatia, I believe I would've simply stopped smoking weed and been as fine as I am now, except I would still be stuck in my box of dogmatic morals and ideals.

And on a more technical note, I had no hallucinations, no catatonia, only quite an existential crisis, which again, I don't consider to be "bad". Really intense and unpleasant, but not "bad".

I'm surely going to test the waters with a single tab.

 

[rpm]

Yeah, sorry - I don't want to sound like I can diagnose you over the internet, or face to face for that matter. It just sounds so textbook that I had to add my 2 cents.

If you are going to do it then that's your decision. It may not be a bad one. Just be prepared and make sure you follow the common advice on set and setting ect.

 

[Sweet Jones]

My first advice is to not go into an LSD trip with any expectations or any idea that you know what will happen or even expectations that it will help facilitate certain processes, if you have not done the drug not just once, but numerous times.

My second and more important piece of advice is that you sound you like are or have before struggled with fairly serious mental illness and this would make LSD several times more dangerous for you than otherwise. I strongly recommend that you reconsider altogether and/or wait until these issues have been diagnosed/treated and are under your control, if ever.

^Well I altered my reply a bit, but my sentiment still stands. A single tab is like "Woohoo lets go party and socialize" while multiple is like, "Hey man, we are the universe." It's up to the OP to decide what he feels works for his situation.

I know many feel that there are psychological risks associated with diving too deep too quick, or simply by taking LSD in the first place, but even a 'bad' trip will have portions where you learn something. When it comes to actual verified LSD, I personally believe there is no risk in dropping a few tabs (mind you away from the public and in a safe setting). Sure people might freak out, but they'll end up fine.

There are bad trips, and there are psychotic episodes.

 

[FooloftheSun]

It's no problem, I can certainly see how it can appear as that.

The reason I want to do it in the first place is to expand on the spirituality I found through my turbulent trip (ba-dum-tssh) in Croatia, so I'll surely be going about it a relaxed setting. I'm much more comfortable by myself though in general, so I'm thinking about going solo. I find it kind of uncomfortable being artistic (writing, playing guitar, composing groovy tunes %)) when I'm with others.

I'm probably going to play it safe and have a sitter, then embark on solo odysseys of creativity and exploration on my own, once I'm sure I can steer the ship.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

It's no problem, I can certainly see how it can appear as that.

The reason I want to do it in the first place is to expand on the spirituality I found through my turbulent trip (ba-dum-tssh) in Croatia, so I'll surely be going about it a relaxed setting. I'm much more comfortable by myself though in general, so I'm thinking about going solo. I find it kind of uncomfortable being artistic (writing, playing guitar, composing groovy tunes %)) when I'm with others.

I'm probably going to play it safe and have a sitter, then embark on solo odysseys of creativity and exploration on my own, once I'm sure I can steer the ship.

I would embark on the journey with one or two of your best friends. People you really trust and can appreciate your artistic activities.

 

[FooloftheSun]

I appreciate your concern Jones, but as I've said in the later posts, I don't believe it to be a psychotic episode. I had one hell of a stressor to throw me into my existential crisis that summer, but the only symptom of psychosis I showed in any magnitude, would be altered thoughts, which I wouldn't say is defining characteristic of a psychotic episode, and is pretty vague.

 

[Doldrugs]

It doesn't sound like a psychotic episode. It sounds identical to the anxiety I experienced in college. Weed would worsen it. Now that my anxiety is under control I enjoy both weed and psychedelics.

I say go for it, but be safe. Have a sitter or a couple if friends, dose reasonably, be in a positive setting. You'll be just fine.

 

[rpm]

For the record, I meant it sounded like acute cannabis psychosis - which is basically a short lived freak out (ie till the cannabis wears off). The symptoms of questioning reality and oneself is text book depersonalization/derealisation. But then a friend of mine has had these problems and can trip fine.

 

[FooloftheSun]

Alright, I gotchya. Regardless, thanks for putting your two cents in.

 

[rpm]

Oh I think I ended up giving you more like 2 dollars Sorry about that: boredom and so forth

 

[phatass]

If you're decided to do it, be prepared, "set and setting" is crucial.