Need serious help, Xanax is going to ruin me
- Thread starter Enough999
- Start date
Here are some links to some relevant threads on Bluelight that might get you the info that you're looking for, they're fairly old though, maybe you can get them going again...Google "opiate wd and benzo wd bluelight if you don't want to cut and paste. I wish I had better advice being an opiate and benzo addict. Good Luck!
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/667597-Differences-between-benzo-and-opioid-withdrawal
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/527472-Benzo-withdrawal-vs-heroin-withdrawal
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/667597-Differences-between-benzo-and-opioid-withdrawal
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/527472-Benzo-withdrawal-vs-heroin-withdrawal
Pentakillx
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2017
- Messages
- 42
I quit Xanax, Vicodin, and drinking all at the same time. It was shit. Withdrawals are always shit, whether you're coming off of one drug or five. However, your health is at risk if you keep using. The safest way to quit is to keep tapering down on all of it; the dope and the Xanax. Withdrawals from both can do serious harm if you just get rid of everything and quit cold turkey.
I managed to quit by sheer force of will, but I'm a masochist who sometimes "enjoyed" the pain of withdrawal. Everybody's different. Some good advice that's helped many addicts I know quit (meth, heroin, and benzos) is to just smoke weed. It sounds silly, and it's not going to get rid of your cravings, but if you're down for it, a nice hybrid (that is CBD dominant) can help with the body pains and nausea, as well as give you a bit of a buzz in the head. If that's not an option, try to get yourself a vacation from work. Post up, keep tapering down, and get yourself some digestive teas, heating pads, soups, a thermometer to keep track of your fevers, and whatever would make you feel 'comfy' (like fuzzy blankets, a gel neck pillow, hot chocolate, etc.). There's not really much else to do except ride it out.
I managed to quit by sheer force of will, but I'm a masochist who sometimes "enjoyed" the pain of withdrawal. Everybody's different. Some good advice that's helped many addicts I know quit (meth, heroin, and benzos) is to just smoke weed. It sounds silly, and it's not going to get rid of your cravings, but if you're down for it, a nice hybrid (that is CBD dominant) can help with the body pains and nausea, as well as give you a bit of a buzz in the head. If that's not an option, try to get yourself a vacation from work. Post up, keep tapering down, and get yourself some digestive teas, heating pads, soups, a thermometer to keep track of your fevers, and whatever would make you feel 'comfy' (like fuzzy blankets, a gel neck pillow, hot chocolate, etc.). There's not really much else to do except ride it out.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
Please do not quit the Xanax without some kind of taper, ideally switching to a longer acting benzo (in order of preference) diazepam, clonazepam or lorazepam. Not tapering off benzos when one is dependent often leads to seizure, a DT like condition, sometimes resulting in death. Tapering using a short acting benzo such as alprazolam is very difficult and tends to require more frequent dosing, which is problematic when trying to maintain a taper schedule.
This is not an issue with opioids, though it still makes the withdrawal infinitely more bearable and significantly increases you chances of success in early recovery when you taper off your opioid of choice using a longer acting opioid, ideally with blockade properties, such as buprenorphine (suitable for the majority of most habits) or methadone (more suitable for longer term habits and more severe cases of dependency).
Alcohol is much the same as benzos when it comes to detoxing, with any significant dependency requiring a taper of a gabaergic substance (ideally long acting benzos like diazepam, but longer acting barbiturates are often used in combination with other substances as a substitute). Not doing so can result in perminant damage and death as is the case with benzos.
This is not an issue with opioids, though it still makes the withdrawal infinitely more bearable and significantly increases you chances of success in early recovery when you taper off your opioid of choice using a longer acting opioid, ideally with blockade properties, such as buprenorphine (suitable for the majority of most habits) or methadone (more suitable for longer term habits and more severe cases of dependency).
Alcohol is much the same as benzos when it comes to detoxing, with any significant dependency requiring a taper of a gabaergic substance (ideally long acting benzos like diazepam, but longer acting barbiturates are often used in combination with other substances as a substitute). Not doing so can result in perminant damage and death as is the case with benzos.
Last night after reading blue light over and over I decided that even though I would normally pick up today (day on day off), I wouldn't because I thought I dodged a bullet by not suffering on my off days. I woke up this morning in full on opiate withdrawal. I have access to only 4 mg of sub right now, and of course, as much dope as I can afford. My past abuse definitely made it much faster for me to become readdicted. I plan to take this 4 mg now before I do something even stupider. I might be able to find one more 8 mg sub. I know there are taper threads all over this site but being that it was for a short time at a short dose etc, is there a different taper plan I should be following? This is regarding subs if I can get them, I don't plan on dropping any more Xanax until this is done.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
Try and get enough buprenorphine to take the equivalent of 2mg twice a day for seven days. That will get you through your withdrawal without much fuss other than, perhaps, some minor runs, a bit of insomnia or a bit of anxiety. As long as you can get 4mg in you each day for seven days, ideally split into two doses to get it into your system more effectively for you to stabilize properly during the week on it, you'll be fine.
Mind you, this won't keep you sober, just keep you from having a difficult kick. It is worth considering getting on some kind of MAT program to address concerns related to you longer term sobriety. Expect 2mg twice a day for a week to get you safely through withdrawal without too much pain or suffering, but nothing more.
Also keep in mind that using buprenorphine and heroin on and off, waffling back and forth, will make you eventual detox far more difficult, decrease the effectiveness of buprenorphine and increase your tolerance to heroin. If you can make up you mind as to whether to either continue to use heroin while you get things organized with more buprenorphine, get some social support going outside of simply using buprenorphine and begin to make a plan as to what you are going to do in order to stay sober after you detox from heroin OR just jump right in and avoid continuing to use heroin, going straight to your buprenorphine managed detox, choosing and sticking to the option you find more reasonable would be best.
Yes, we all want sobriety. And fuck all, we want it NOW. But it is better to be realistic in your plans and focus on achievable goals than set yourself up for failure. After all, you have the rest of your life to figure this shit out, there is no rush.
Mind you, this won't keep you sober, just keep you from having a difficult kick. It is worth considering getting on some kind of MAT program to address concerns related to you longer term sobriety. Expect 2mg twice a day for a week to get you safely through withdrawal without too much pain or suffering, but nothing more.
Also keep in mind that using buprenorphine and heroin on and off, waffling back and forth, will make you eventual detox far more difficult, decrease the effectiveness of buprenorphine and increase your tolerance to heroin. If you can make up you mind as to whether to either continue to use heroin while you get things organized with more buprenorphine, get some social support going outside of simply using buprenorphine and begin to make a plan as to what you are going to do in order to stay sober after you detox from heroin OR just jump right in and avoid continuing to use heroin, going straight to your buprenorphine managed detox, choosing and sticking to the option you find more reasonable would be best.
Yes, we all want sobriety. And fuck all, we want it NOW. But it is better to be realistic in your plans and focus on achievable goals than set yourself up for failure. After all, you have the rest of your life to figure this shit out, there is no rush.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
How long did you have away from all opioids prior to your recent use of sustained use? If you weren't already tolerant to heroin before using it for that week, you almost certainly get away with a relatively discomfort free detox using 4-12mg.
2mg once a day one day one, twice a day on day two and three and then 2mg once a day for day four should see you through this. You could also take 2mg on day one, 2mg twice on day two, three, 3mg on day four, and 1mg on day five and be pretty normal. You could actually easily get by with just 4mg over the course of four days if you hadn't taken it all at once. Even a single dose of just 4mg at the beginning of the process would make it substantially more managible compared to cold turkey.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter how you take the buprenorphine if you're working with such a limited amount as long as you space it out as much as possible, concentrating your use of it on days one, two, three and four (generally the most difficult) of the detox.
Do you have any plans for how you are going to manage things after the buprenorphine runs out? Do you have insurance/have you thought about some kind of outpatient program or something to help support you in your early recovery?
Is there any way you can put the benzo taper on hold until you have detoxed successfully from the heroin? Doing both at once will be much harder than one at a time. There is a very good chance you are have the severity of symptoms you are because of your concurrent benzo taper. You may need slightly more buprenorphine than I am suggesting in this post if you continue to taper benzos while you are coming off opioids.
2mg once a day one day one, twice a day on day two and three and then 2mg once a day for day four should see you through this. You could also take 2mg on day one, 2mg twice on day two, three, 3mg on day four, and 1mg on day five and be pretty normal. You could actually easily get by with just 4mg over the course of four days if you hadn't taken it all at once. Even a single dose of just 4mg at the beginning of the process would make it substantially more managible compared to cold turkey.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter how you take the buprenorphine if you're working with such a limited amount as long as you space it out as much as possible, concentrating your use of it on days one, two, three and four (generally the most difficult) of the detox.
Do you have any plans for how you are going to manage things after the buprenorphine runs out? Do you have insurance/have you thought about some kind of outpatient program or something to help support you in your early recovery?
Is there any way you can put the benzo taper on hold until you have detoxed successfully from the heroin? Doing both at once will be much harder than one at a time. There is a very good chance you are have the severity of symptoms you are because of your concurrent benzo taper. You may need slightly more buprenorphine than I am suggesting in this post if you continue to taper benzos while you are coming off opioids.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
Your idea for the taper sounds just fine. I'd probably do 3mg, 2mg, 2mg, 1mg and 1mg and just call it even at that. There isn't any need to go down low with the dosage if you're only using it for a two or less weeks.
Glad to hear you're putting the taper on hold (hell, if I were in your shoes I might even go back up by the equalilavent of 0.5mg clonazepam (so 0.5mg alprazolam, 5mg diazepam, etc) for a week; you're the best judge of this though).
Since you had months of abstinence prior to your lapse here, you aren't in for much suffering. Honestly two or three days of bupe is all you really need to get by, so five or six days of it will be more than enough for you to manage.
Glad to hear you're putting the taper on hold (hell, if I were in your shoes I might even go back up by the equalilavent of 0.5mg clonazepam (so 0.5mg alprazolam, 5mg diazepam, etc) for a week; you're the best judge of this though).
Since you had months of abstinence prior to your lapse here, you aren't in for much suffering. Honestly two or three days of bupe is all you really need to get by, so five or six days of it will be more than enough for you to manage.
toothpastedog: everything you said was great...
I just wanted to add that I wouldn't set a specific mg to taper each day of the sub. Take the minimum to function then jump off as soon as possible.
I was screwing around with sub for several days and got hooked for several years. Everyone is different and to be fair I do get addicted to crap easily.
I just wanted to add that I wouldn't set a specific mg to taper each day of the sub. Take the minimum to function then jump off as soon as possible.
I was screwing around with sub for several days and got hooked for several years. Everyone is different and to be fair I do get addicted to crap easily.
basix
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2003
- Messages
- 840
I can't comment on the opiate stuff from experience - but my advice would be to go back on the last stable dose of xanax you felt 'fine' at, and address the opiates first.
Withdrawing from both isn't the best option. You won't know what is causing what side effect, and will take 10x as much willpower.
-----
Have you tried a liquid Titration method for xanax? It will remove the need for a longer acting benzo like diazepam if you do it correctly.
You can reduce 0.3-1% daily and do it very very gradually.
If it becomes too hard, you can pause for a day or a week. But personally I've found sticking to schedule very easy.
Along with splitting your dose into 3-4 daily doses like you're doing already, this will produce the least side effects.
You'll stabilise the levels in your body throughout the day and not experience the interdose withdrawal that xanax causes.
-----
From a FB Benzo Group that I've found Helpful (https://www.facebook.com/groups/112449132147409/):
Liquid titration (LT) is seen as a preferred method of tapering off benzodiazepines because it allows for micro-cuts and often has fewer and less intense withdrawal symptoms than dry cutting.
Take as much information as you can get!
The following is for an average 10% per month reduction taper for approx. 10 months.
1. Using the 100 ml graduated cylinder to measure, carefully pour 300 ml of water into the large primary mixing jar. A 300 day taper means we start with 300 ml of water.
2. Place the crushed or solid pill(s) into the water (pills dissolve into a suspension by themselves over a few minutes), let the pill dissolve in the primary mixing jar, then put the lid on top, and shake for 30 to 60 seconds.
3. Take the lid off, and syringe 1 ml of mix out of the main mix jar, and shoot that 1 ml into the sink. (Day two, you syringe out 2 ml of mix, day three, 3 ml of mix, and so on.)
4. Place lid on, shake again, then pour equal amounts of the benzo/water mix into three separate dose containers. (You can usually get away with 2-3 doses per day with Valium, but with Klonopin 3-4, Xanax 4-6, & Ativan 4-5, as they're short acting, and more doses during the day lessen the chance of interdose withdrawal.)
5. Take the first dose now, and save the other two for afternoon and evening. That's it!
Please note that the 10% reduction method we recommend is a 10% reduction on the CURRENT reduced dosage per month.- If you started at 10mg, the first reduction would be 10% of 10mg, or 1mg, over the period of a month for a reduced dose to 9mg.- Your second monthly reduction would be 10% of 9mg, or .9mg, over the period of a month for a reduced dose to 8.1mg.- Your third monthly reduction would be 10% of 8.1mg, or .81mg, over the period of a month for a reduced dose to 7.29mg.And so on.This ensures that your nervous system is eased down a gentle 10% slope at every step of the process. It's important that drops become smaller, not larger, as you go. Once you find the rate at which you can comfortably taper, you don't want to jolt your nervous system with a larger drop than it can handle.Mathematics whizzes may recognize that the 10% reduction formula is a geometric progression (asymptote) approaching but never equaling zero. At a very small dosage, likely less than 0.05mg V equivalent, when reductions no longer cause any withdrawal symptoms, you may want to simply stop.
For those who've been taking benzos for a significant amount of time, and or at high doses, you can slow your taper down to as long as 20 months by simply making your dose cuts every other day.
Video of LT Process
https://youtu.be/EGNb5LetgDw
How to calculate the percentages of your dose as it fluctuates
EXAMPLE - -
300 Mls of water
1 mg of medicine
26 mls discarded
300 - 26 = 274
274/300 = .9133 which is 9.13%
Withdrawing from both isn't the best option. You won't know what is causing what side effect, and will take 10x as much willpower.
-----
Have you tried a liquid Titration method for xanax? It will remove the need for a longer acting benzo like diazepam if you do it correctly.
You can reduce 0.3-1% daily and do it very very gradually.
If it becomes too hard, you can pause for a day or a week. But personally I've found sticking to schedule very easy.
Along with splitting your dose into 3-4 daily doses like you're doing already, this will produce the least side effects.
You'll stabilise the levels in your body throughout the day and not experience the interdose withdrawal that xanax causes.
-----
From a FB Benzo Group that I've found Helpful (https://www.facebook.com/groups/112449132147409/):
Liquid titration (LT) is seen as a preferred method of tapering off benzodiazepines because it allows for micro-cuts and often has fewer and less intense withdrawal symptoms than dry cutting.
Take as much information as you can get!
The following is for an average 10% per month reduction taper for approx. 10 months.
1. Using the 100 ml graduated cylinder to measure, carefully pour 300 ml of water into the large primary mixing jar. A 300 day taper means we start with 300 ml of water.
2. Place the crushed or solid pill(s) into the water (pills dissolve into a suspension by themselves over a few minutes), let the pill dissolve in the primary mixing jar, then put the lid on top, and shake for 30 to 60 seconds.
3. Take the lid off, and syringe 1 ml of mix out of the main mix jar, and shoot that 1 ml into the sink. (Day two, you syringe out 2 ml of mix, day three, 3 ml of mix, and so on.)
4. Place lid on, shake again, then pour equal amounts of the benzo/water mix into three separate dose containers. (You can usually get away with 2-3 doses per day with Valium, but with Klonopin 3-4, Xanax 4-6, & Ativan 4-5, as they're short acting, and more doses during the day lessen the chance of interdose withdrawal.)
5. Take the first dose now, and save the other two for afternoon and evening. That's it!
Please note that the 10% reduction method we recommend is a 10% reduction on the CURRENT reduced dosage per month.- If you started at 10mg, the first reduction would be 10% of 10mg, or 1mg, over the period of a month for a reduced dose to 9mg.- Your second monthly reduction would be 10% of 9mg, or .9mg, over the period of a month for a reduced dose to 8.1mg.- Your third monthly reduction would be 10% of 8.1mg, or .81mg, over the period of a month for a reduced dose to 7.29mg.And so on.This ensures that your nervous system is eased down a gentle 10% slope at every step of the process. It's important that drops become smaller, not larger, as you go. Once you find the rate at which you can comfortably taper, you don't want to jolt your nervous system with a larger drop than it can handle.Mathematics whizzes may recognize that the 10% reduction formula is a geometric progression (asymptote) approaching but never equaling zero. At a very small dosage, likely less than 0.05mg V equivalent, when reductions no longer cause any withdrawal symptoms, you may want to simply stop.
For those who've been taking benzos for a significant amount of time, and or at high doses, you can slow your taper down to as long as 20 months by simply making your dose cuts every other day.
Video of LT Process
https://youtu.be/EGNb5LetgDw
How to calculate the percentages of your dose as it fluctuates
EXAMPLE - -
300 Mls of water
1 mg of medicine
26 mls discarded
300 - 26 = 274
274/300 = .9133 which is 9.13%