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Need quaalude advice from someone who KNOWS (c. 1970)

D

Denial

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
722
In a ficitional scenario (of course)...
I am in the position to acquire a large quantity of methaqualone which has come from south africa (allegedly) and not the fake valium crap from mexico...
Can someone who was around in the 70s and has actually consumed quaaludes give me a quick rundown of how it 'should feel' when I sample one?
Ive done valium, xanax, e, meth, coke, oxycodone, hydrocodone and more... so feel free to describe in terms of those...
Ive 'heard' that the quaalude high is like the 'relaxation of a benzo, with the blissful euphoria of oxycodone' ....
any suggestions?
 
also... what is a recreational dose?
in my fictional world, the pills i would obtain are guaranteed to be 250mg+
is that enough to enjoy the 'full experience'?
thanks all.
 
If you could get ludes from South Africa I would imagine they'd actually be around at some point instead of everything being fake. From what I've heard ludes aren't manufactured anywhere now. The synth isn't impossible but for the level of difficulty there are things you could make that would be a lot more profitable.
If you can try them first go for it but I seriously doubt that they are actually real ludes.
 
The South African ludes are the real deal from what I have heard, bonafide methaqualone, and I believe like in the UK they are called Mandrax (pronounced Mandrakes).
Don't know what they look like, they have some pictures up at Lycaeum I think if you want to look, but the high from I've been told is closer to a barb than benzo, only waaaaaaay better.
A rec dose would be in the 300mg range.
 
Also the fakes are pretty easy to spot, seen plenty of those, they are large off-white pills, usually crudely made, and will have either a Lemmon 714/717 or Rorer 714 inscription.
And if you know what Valium feels like, that's what most of the fakes are made with, so if it feels different (i.e. better) than diazepam, then a winnar is yuo.
edit: here's a couple of pics, the first is kinda grainy and some those look like counterfeits
mandrax
mandrax
[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: tonedeff ]
 
I was lucky enough to get a few of the real ones.. an older friend of mine (a guy I worked for) had a bottle under his sink - I saw the old amber bottle, faded label .. they were the extra strength 300mg .. the pills were falling apart, definitly looked to be 20 years old or so .. now, for the high - it's very hard to describe a high, and I am not a good write when it comes to conveying these things.. it's NOT like benzos because 'ludes have a more pronounced body high.. they are closer to barbituates really.. they just stone you, you're mashed, glued to the chair you're in and you are just happy as can be staring at the world ... I took 300mg, he refused to sell me any more of them which really sucks..
I can just about gaurentee you the quaaludes you have are not real.. methaqualone is NOT being made and solf ANYWHERE .. it's not like these are just banned in the US and you can get them in Europe ..
Could a clandestine chemist make it? Yes, the synth is not very difficult, and a competent chemist could make it, but the problem is that there is NO PROFIT IN THIS! It takes 150mg at the minimum to make a pill, so think of the volume of drug that you would have to make to crank out a few thousand pills? Think of the logistics of smuggling such a large volume of powder? Now, each pill has a top street price of maybe $10 max, so at the chemist/presser -> main buyer level, they are probably paying only a buck or two per pill - sorry, it's just not worth it.. so from time to time some kitchen cook may crank out some methaqualone powder and sell some caps, but I would go as far as to say that there are NO 'LUDES OUT THERE THAT CONTAIN METHAQUALONE EXCEPT RESERVES FROM THE EARLY 1980's!
There are a TON of Lemmon 714's out there - but it's proven they contain high amounts of various benzos (diazepam, oxazepam, bromazepam, etc..)
It just makes no sense - anyone with the means to make huge amounts of the drug, and with access to a press, is NOT going to waste their time with 'ludes, they are going to either use that Lemmon press and stamp out pills loaded with Valium, or they use their lab to make something profitable - such as MDMA or something else...
Do you follow? You're not going to see pills that contain Methaqualone .. HOWEVER, some of the fake 'ludes ARE worth $5-$10 a pill because some of them contain as much as 70mg Diazepam - can't complain about that!
You can try looking for someone that liked to party back in the 70's and 80's .. this guy forget he had them until they were getting ready to remodel the bathroom and I was helping, he found the bottle in a box that hadn't been opened in about 15 years .. needles to say he was one happy camper (there were about 20 pills in the bottle) ..
 
Not everything everyone does makes sense PhreeX.
:) .
Yeah, they are probably fake, but just because it doesn't make sense to do something, doesn't mean people don't do it...
Beyond that, it could make sense for SOMEONE to do it.. maybe they have excessive knowledge of the drug... or it's production... or they want to enter into a non-competitive market... or they think they can MAKE a market for the drug at... $50 a gram... which honestly I don't think would be entirely absurd... look at E.
See what I'm saying?
Or maybe they just believe that they are less likely to get caught making those because so few people are in the business of making them that the gov ain't lookin...
Or maybe it is a joint venture between two giant drug cartels who have already saturated their exdisting markets. You're a smart guy, PhreeX, but you have no way of knowing the details of the entire world.
I'd almost guarantee you that somewhere, someone is making a significant quantity for sale... though it may not be for sale in the west. :) .
 
I know it's hard to grasp the idea - and it seems logical - it's a big world, so SOMEONE might..
Again, there ARE small kitchen chemists that will make an ounce or so, cap 300mg in a cap and sell it to their friends - this happends because I know people that have done it .. but we want to look at LARGE SCALE PRODUCTION ...
There ARE people making tens of thousands of Quaaludes - this is true, they really are making them and shipping them and if you look hard enough, you WILL FIND THEM! In fact, in Florida it seems like no one has any good pain killer but everyone has "the real 'ludes" ... well, some of these were analyzed - the DEA published an article over a year ago on it, and there are even a couple on DanceSafe's webpage, I have also read some independent articles in regards to "The return of the Quaalude" .. heres the thing - they don't have any methaqualone in them, instead they contain high amounts of various benzos.. see, you give Kimmy Kandyraver one of these "new 'ludes" and she is gunna flashback to 1982 - even though she wasn't alive back then... that 'lude is gunna FUCK HER UP, I mean, crawling on the floor fucked up, and with that, she thinks she got a real Quaalude because we ALL know it's a downer that people would take for it's sedetive effects - so what she took fits the bill ...
There goes your idea of getting into an untapped market .. so why not actually put methaqualone in the pills? I mean, hell, they got the right press - why not just make it like you're supposed to? Simple, you can buy a pound of pure diazepam for under a few hundred bucks, and if you bought many pounds it would probably drop even lower.. now, you can put 20mg-30mg into your pill and this will DEFINITLY fuck someone up... so, that one pound could make like 10,000 "ludes" .. and these are NOT BUNK, they will FUCK YOU UP (as is the case when you take 30mg diazepam or 20mg bromazepam) .. they don't even need to make the benzos - as I said, they can be legally bought in countries where they are uncontrolled ... if these ludes were sold for FIFTY-CENTS EACH then the person that made them will make bank..
But I did say that there ARE people making it - you can find chemists that have ounces to sell.. so why not large scale?
Well, a large-scale lab is very unique.. the bottom line is PROFIT! Yeah, it would be neat to bring back a drug that hasn't been around in almost 20 years, and thats the motivation of the kitchen chemists making an ounce or two.. but when you talk about "cartels" you're talking MONEY, GREEN, BENJEMINS! They don't care about helping introduce todays youth to the experience of a drug our parents enjoyed, no, they want to make more cold, hard, cash so they can buy jets, houses, landing strips, surface to air 'twister' missels, more drugs, play station games, women, etc..
Lets break down large scale production and see why this isnt profitable ..
Ok, first you need the setup - glassware, location, a chemist, and chemicals.. the tricky one to get for this is anthranilic acid - big cartel connects could get this, but of course it would cost.. you could take the route the kitchen chemists are taking at home, which uses no restriced chemicals (the synth using H2SO4, Nitric Acid, Toluene, Distilled H2O, Iron filings, Denatured Alcohol, Methanol, Acetone, Sodium Hydroxide, Hydrochloric Acid, etc..) well, thats all fine and good for the kitchen chemistry student, but for a large scale synth it's totally impractical, I mean you're making precursors to precursors to precursors .. well, lets say that we have a lab ran by someone motivated by you post, lets say they went balls out and cranked out 20 pounds of pure methaqualone (after much laborious work, refining, etc..) what next?
Well, it's time to smuggle the dope to the pill presser .. if we assume they make a MILD STRENGTH 'lude with 200mg of methaqualone in it - guess what? Thats a little more then 2,000 pills per pound .. when you talk about "large scale" it generally means a capacity of 50,000 - 1 million pills .. thats a LOT of fucking powder to pack into a car gas tank.. it would also cost - so in order to turn a profit (remember the benjemins) the pills would have to be sold at a higher price .. given that I don't know the cost of producing methaqualone I could only guess - they would be sold with a LOW profit margin .. hell, ecstasy pills are sold for less then $1 each fom the presser and they fetch over $20 on the street.. a Quaalude would only bring $10 - oh, but I forgot, these are not even the extra strength Quaaludes, so $10 might be asking a little too much...
Does that make it any more clear? The DEA also agrees with this, in their article they said large scale clandestine methaqualone production is unlikely due to the low profit margins and the amount of the drug needed to produce a high worth the buyers money..
Sorry to rain on your parade, but if it was being made then SOMEONE would have seen it.. we wouldn't be swimming in these bullshit Lemmon 714's packed full of Valium..
If I am wrong or you at least think I am, explain the logistics as you see it - why would it be a worthwhile endeovour to produce them?
It's not like any cartel would have saturated their market.. its like saying they saturated the cocaine market so it's time to branch out to something new and expairmental.. the big players produce the same products over and over because there is such a HUGE demand for it, and it seems demand has ALWAYS outmet supply .. it's also FAR more profitable to produce ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, meth, etc..
That is all.. though I am interested to hear your rebuttal..
 
Like I said, I don't know the particulars of the synthesis, but let's look at it this way.
A wealthy ecstasy maker in Eastern Europe says that next month his lab can make 1,000,000 pills instead of 500,000 pills. However, the chemist does is not in charge of "marketing" so to speak. He just has some guy who comes and picks the pills up from his factory, one shipment a month. He turns to the guy whom he tries to sell the pills to, and says--- "I can make 1,000,000 pills next month, do you want to buy them?"
His guy says "Nah, I have enough trouble selling 500,000. I had to drop my prices last month anyways, the market is depleting because this new research is coming out on brain damage. Though, I think people might be interested in buying some other stuff... is there some way you could make something new?"
"Like meth?"
"Nah, too dirty."
"Well... hey, you know... my second to-the-top chemist says that he found a way to make ludes, maybe we should do that."
"Let me talk to my people..."
[Time passes]
"Yeah, my people say it would be ASWESOME to have a supply to sell, people are ALWAYS looking for them and they have such a reputation they are easy to push."
"Well, it's kind of a pain in the ass, maybe we should make fake pills."
"No man, my guys have reputations to uphold... they have to be real."
"Alright... well, I'll make 500,000 of those next month, they are a little heavier than the x, bring bigger trucks."
That's obviously a massive oversimplification, but you get it, don't you?
People do make substances with lower profit margins... And although demand for drugs usually is higher than supply, it is the case that it is sometimes VERY difficult for the two to meet... so we have both users wanting drugs AND wholesalers who don't know what to do with them.
The wholesalers have a LOT of trouble distributing the product to the citizens... that's why so many people are involved and it goes up in price so much. They just need to get rid of the shit, and frankly there aren't many people wlaking around looking to buy 10,000+ pills.-.. and finding them is a whole new story, you can't put out an add in the paper!
You've already demonstrated that there is a significant market for Ludes at $10 a pill... they are "everywhere"... so if someone just went out and made real ones, that market would expand.. people would like them better than the fake ones... the price could increase a little... etc. I don't think it would take more than one large cartel entering the business to really create a supply nationwide. Clearly, you are right though, we don't see a large supply of real pills, so not many people are in the market, though, theoretically there could be periodic waves of actual pills, circulating, as we speak.
Maybe not though, maybe it isn't profitable at this point in time. I'd think it would be... $50-100 a gram isn't exactly dirt cheap. And there would probably be a demand.
[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: Timerare2 ]
 
HUH? Have you done any research in the world of large-scale clandestine chemistry? An ecstasy lab is setup for ecstasy, they wouldn't breanch out into methaqualone for the hell of it .. if sales were down then they would make MORE ECSTASY, so at 2 million tabs the price would drop.. the presser could then up the amount of MDMA in each pill, which would draw buyers back to that brand (for awhile, until the counterfeits come out) .. if someone was going to do large-scale methaqualone then that would be a totally seperate venture...
Now, you refer to whats out there as "fake" - technically anything other then the originals are "fake" - but these pills WILL fuck you up good, so what we have is an ASSLOAD of satis-fuckin-fied customers ..
But you think that "real 'ludes" would hit the market and people would be more attracted to those then the "fakes" - personally, I agree, the high from methaqualone is more enjoyable and, um, complete then a high dose of some benzo .. BUT, and here is the hum-dilly of a dinger, to make such a pill you would need to put AT LEAST 300mg of methaqualone in it.. suddenly things got less-fun... you would only get about 1,500 pills out of a pound .. the higher-up people buy by the 10k, so it takes 7 pounds of methaqualone for that to happen.. now, how much do you think they would pay per-pill? Probably not much...
Or you could call up [a supplier]in Bangcock and say "yes, I would like 1 pound of diazepam, actually, on second thought, what kind of deal can you do me on 10 pounds? Oh, $160 a pound? Perfect, put me down for 10 pounds" .. one week later the diazepam arrives, you celebrate your girlfriend not being pregnant by dumping 50mg of diazepam in each pill, you sell them for whatever, you make bank, thousands of kids get so fucked up they urinate on themselves...
 
While you know far more about this than I, I wouldn't underestimate how bizarre the illegality of drugs makes the market for them. If your regular supplier of precursors dries up you can't just go the yellow pages and order from someone else. Conversely sometimes (through diversion) you might be in a position to obtain a large quantity of precursers for a very cheap price. In such a situation I could imagine lude production. Of course it is still unlikely.
However, I can't see how it matters if they are fake. If you plan to sell them ppl can't tell the differnce so it hardly matters. If you plan to do them yourself all that really matters is how good they make you feel. If it isn't any better than valium and you can get valium at a cheaper price don't buy them. If the high is worth the money spent (compared to other drugs you could buy) then buy them. The exact chemical combination, as long as nothing really nasty is involved, hardly seems important
 
What the FUCK are you people babbling on about? The history of ludes, synths, macroeconomics, my homo plumber who slipped me a lude and plunged my butt, blah, blah, blah--none of it has ANYTHING to do with what the orignal post was asking.
This guy apparently has an in on SOUTH AFRICAN ludes. Do any of you live in SOUTH AFRICA? It isn't a suburb of Atlanta, in case you were wondering. As far as I know, methaqualone still exists in certain quantities in SOUTH AFRICA because up until very recently there was a serious methaqualone abuse problem among the rural populations there.
These ludes, as I said, are called Mandrax I believe, and I have heard of people in that far away land having access to them in RECENT months.
Now, this is all secondhand information, but at least it might be a little more useful than rambling on whatever the lude scene in South Florida or the rest of North America is.
Again, to review:
South Africa != South Florida
 
Yeah there is a large Mandrax problem in south Africa. Apparently one way they are done is they are crushed up and smoked in a glass bottle top like crack.
I posted links to information about this in the most wanted drugs thread because lots of people where mentioning ludes.
 
Guys, i assure you, they are from south africa, and yes, they are called mandrax there...and the popular mode of consumption is crushed into a weed joint.
Anyhow, phreex, if you want particulars, email me privately and we can talk.
Ill report back when I get my shipment in the next 2 weeks.
Cheers!
 
First of all, neither one of us have the slightest clue what goes on at the top of the food chain, let us not pretend.
Secondly, don't you know anything about business? People will try to make money where there is money to be made... it's that simple. Ecstasy manufacturerers will get pissed off that they have flooded the market, and try to sell something else in addition to it. They CANNOT just "create" a new market, it is some difficult networking (=risktaking) to open up new paths for the drugs to travel down to the consumer. But they can, fairly easily, distribute *new* products through their existing network.
Neither one of us has the slightst clue how much it costs to illicitly manufacture and import significant quantities of certain drugs. We just plaing don't know what's involved. We aren't in the business. You have some experience with small scale manufacturing and distributing, but I am willing to bet you've never been on location as some major coke smugglers were given their paychecks. That being said, if we look, and we see that there aren't any ludes floating around, then you are right-- no one has found it profitable at this time. HOWEVER, there is no way we can know if someone might find it profitable in the future.
And look at all the weight in marijuana which enters the country..I think it is significantly simpler than "Stuffing it into car-gas tanks"...
 
Secondly, don't you know anything about business? People will try to make money where there is money to be made... it's that simple. Ecstasy manufacturerers will get pissed off that they have flooded the market, and try to sell something else in addition to it. They CANNOT just "create" a new market, it is some difficult networking (=risktaking) to open up new paths for the drugs to travel down to the consumer. But they can, fairly easily, distribute *new* products through their existing network.
Completely wrong. The American drug market exist 100% on supply that in return will create a demand if there's not enough supply of something else.
Assuming the method of ingestion is appropriate and you get the greenlight, the word travels on drugs. Creating new markets is easy. Start from the top. Funnel them down. The people at the bottom will introduce the new product and create the market.
Even drugs little white boys with little dicks and nice cars will try heroin if you flood a suburban community.
Again, the formula for creating a new drug market is: supply, word of mouth, good reviews on the product.
 
methaqualone IS still available in a few countries, namely: india (where it was invented), kenya, tanzania, south africa.
i lived in tanzania for four years, i just left about 3 months ago. i had the chance to try them, but for some reason i never did go to POCO LOCO (the place they sold drugs, meaning weed, hash, some VERY low quality coke and mandrax).
the methaqualone is smuggled from india into these countries ... they are VERY cheap, so i figure, someone might think about starting a business with this stuff ... a small box full of mandrax sent from one of my friends in tanzania to me here would be easy to sell, i really do wonder why no one has done it yet ...
it wouldnt be so hard to send the drugs anyway. a small bag, well closed and all put into a hole in a clay figure, with "RARE MAKONDE AFRICAN ART - FRAGILE" written on the box youre sending it on would be almost impossible to detect, me figures.
as to your question, i cant really help. they sedate you, and thats just about all i know. oh, and they make you horny (so i read on erowid)
 
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