NEED ADVICE ON IF I SHOULD TELL MY PSYCHIATRIST

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

You can ease withdrwals with klonipin and probably the flexibility, Prozac takes a while(weeks to work and suicide: is a side effect for some, side effect try tragedic consequence)

im guessing id have to take a lot of klonipin to ease those withdrawals
you know what fuck it! im just going to do it and deal with it as it happens.
for all i know i could be overeacting.

 

[PtahTek]

as far as muscle relaxer i do have Flexeril on hand. i suppose i can use that as well? if i need?

are they any good? i took it once for a issue i had with my muscles of the jaw and all i remember is feeling groggy the next day. cant tell you if they helped

In my opinion and experience; yes.

I find it best to take it as early as possible to try to avoid next day "hangover" and also I break the 10mg in half as it works great for me but I also take NSAID (naproxen sodium -aleve) up to 440mg.
One has to lay down and relax for it to be effective.
Also... there is an issue if taken as prescribed (10mg x 3 day) the drug quits working after a few weeks. So when i do take it (cyclobenzaprine) it is like the first time. Hell a bottle of 90 will last over a year I toss em and get fresh, though.
I like it. Non narcotic, no dependence, no addiction and just as effective as diazepam (IMO) when taken with anti inflammatory.
Hope some of this is helpful getting sleepy.

 

[Jnowhere]

The depression from lack of opiates ain"'t the same as clinical depression. There is no magic cure for depression.
Don't take this wrong, but you are functional, responsible and decent guy. You need to protect that. The klonipin is going to stay, got it, taking more can help withdrawals, and although I am not familiar with flexiril, it probadly will help.
My general feeling is that your problems( and I am not here to disparage them, can be over come without all the drama that many, including myself have had to deal with. Opiates may be miserable to come off, of but not as bad a certain other drugs( yes I know barbiturate addiction is rare today) but benzodiazapines , ( stupid fucking thing keeps incorrectly, correcting me) can be a long term pain and deadly.
You need to stay away from stimulants, try using more klonipin and Flexiril, and if you can get some Zofran( perscription anti nausea med), then take down the amount of opiates at a consistent but not too painful pace. I seriously doubt the Prozac or Wellbutrin will help much:The Adderall my cause problems.

.

 

[Jnowhere]

I just would love for you to not ruin your life and the lives of your family members.
If you can get off, of the subs/ recreational opiates without attracting: attention in your life and the life you have built for your family that would be great. And chalk it up to a lesson learned. Watch out for any legal entanglements and money wasted ( drugs have brought people with an 8 figure net worth to poverty. Your problem, ( regardless of what others on here say seems like something you can handle) If you can be disiciplined enough to do all that being a competitive body builder entails then you should be able to handle this.
You need to figure out what is the least amount of opiatrs/ subs you can take and try out extra klonipin, make sure you always have enough to maintain your regular dose!, and try the Flexeril, to see if it helps. If you have to and can get other opiates( not heroin or fent) to ease withdrawals then do so but be ready for some discomfort, but try to take meds on empty stomach and wait at least 45 minutes to an hour to eat. Keeping Up nutrition and activity is very important.
The exercise regiment that a competitive body builder is extremely brutal( at least from my standpoint) but all endorphins and all the other natural chemicals your body releases from a good work out can only help.

.

 

[Jnowhere]

I am now of the opinion that the subs was a big mistake. That some sort of non-sub taper might be safer before you get addicted to a substance that may be worse than the oxycodone.
After looking around the web, I am more motivated more than ever to limit or even totally eliminate my own opiate use. There is no magic cure for opiod addiction, a taper of something may be the answer, but getting hooked on suboxone, read for yourself what that is like.

 

[papercuts]

what i didnt mention was that i was with my doc a good 7 tears before this. i never took oxy or any opiate except for the time i tore my hamstring and i still didnt use much
but i got hooked and youll think this is ridiculous - because im a competitive bodybuilder - and where i live - the community, lots of parties weddings..very close community. i need to have drinks or something in me to relax and socialize etc. drinking alcohol is the wosrt thing for a bbers physique. training the next day would be rough - let alone the hinders of your physique prepping for a contest.
so i said, ill take oxy since when i did take them, they made me very outgoing and incredibly motivated. slowly i took more and more for about a year on and off
i own a biz, etc. my doc looks at me like a stand up guy - who just happens to have anxiety, and depression.

so if i tell him hey i been taking this and that the last 2 years on and off i need your help - im afraid like you said he could drop me. i know his personality but its hard to gauge how he will react.

all i want is his help. help me with a ween off subs. i dont take any opiates and havent since feb (was night of the superbowl) but started subs - which i prob didnt need. i had no idea of their dependence. i stayed on them for the depression. but i have to come off. im exhausted and unmotivated.
it really sucks man. i have a great life - but i cant enjoy it

It sounds to me like you don't want this shrink to think less of you, so you aren't honest with him. Does that actually help? Like if you aren't honest with him about your coping mechanisms is he going to help you or are you wasting your money?
That was just a thought, I'd definitely NOT trust a doctor of any type because they aren't going to risk losing their cosy lives to help some junkie if there is even the slightest chance it breaks the rules.
Do shrinks have a list of local guidelines of what to do in the situation you describe?
I tried two counsellors. First one I didn't tell because he was an asshole.
A year later I tried another place, thought she was ok, so eventually I told her I've an opiate addiction, she asked had I turned up to sessions high, I said only twice, she freaked out about not having known and wouldn't see me in person after that, we went to phonecalls.
The fact she hadn't noticed says a lot about her lack of knowledge on the subject.
Her colleague who does addiction was off sick getting a hip replacement.
Neither was an actual doctor, doctors are expensive, don't know if they behave differently.
Can't you taper down the subs? It sounds like you're on a low dose, but I know that doesn't matter much because it's the last few mgs that are the hardest to kick no matter what you start at.
For myself, when I can't get anything else I turn to buprenorphine and it is slow to get out of your system again afterwards, but I don't have any intention of living opiate free, my efforts go into keeping it under control and I cut down in the unpleasant way when I need to reduce my tolerance, in theory, these things rarely go to plan.
If I had to be on bupe forever it wouldn't matter to me, it doesn't impair anything, but since you want off it, I'd recommend loads of high dose vitamin c, honestly, there is no upper limit, you can take as much as you have and it really helps. So do Black Cohosh herbal tablets, max strength always for opiate withdrawals, there is an upper limit for those and a time limit of 3 months, they help the chills and sweats. Weed also helps in general, I use it to extend the time I can last between opiates.
I think you've got the right attitude to walk away from this. Very good luck to you.

 

[papercuts]

i picked up some kratom just in case - getting a lot of people telling me it helps tremendously with the withdrawals. smoke shop around the corner has it so i bought a bottle.
theyre 600mg ea

Kratom is really addictive too and the sickness of kratom withdrawal makes buprenorphine withdrawal seem fricking easy imo.
Definitely helps you not miss the subs though.
Vitamin C, black cohosh and antihistimines (eg. hydroxyzine) won't hook you.
Cyclizine is an antiemetic that is an immense relief if you sometimes retch a lot like I do, but habit forming and prescription only where I live.
I get cyclizine off my doctor because I have this mysteious illness where I throw up a lot sometimes, she doesn't know me very well, I come across as very respectable when I try, but I got it easily before that too.
Clonidine is another reliever of everything in withdrawal, problem is it sends my blood pressure crazy. To do it safely you need a lot to taper off slowly with, so probably not worth it in your case.

 

[Jnowhere]

To Bytor_and_the_snowdog, first I didn't realize that the shrink you see: didn't know about and didn't perscribe the klonipin. Second there are some who will not take kindly to drug use and non-upfront honesty. Call it what they will, but admiting face to face with someone about your deep secrets who is a stranger is very hard. They might also be scared( you said you are a competetive bodybuilder). They may wonder about their safety especially if you are in a larger weight class. The fact that whatever you got, you got them through less than legal channels and might cause them to assume something else and be scared to piss you off.
I do not know or believe that to be the case.
Unfortunately there ain't much a shrink can do accept therapy and maybe some other benzos( methadone and suboxone seem wrong for the limited use you did. A taper if you have withdrawals might be the best. You are a family man which complicates things,ⁿ but mentally you seem done with opiates( recreationally which is a lot of the fight. The subs produce bad, longtime up to a month withdrawals, but could you get off oxy with a fairly quick taper, using extra klonipin maybe Flexiril and any other perscription opiods you can come up with. Can you do this and avoid the subs, because they will create a whole nother bigger worse problem. The mental part seems under control. Ween your self off and means some discomfort and and unpleasantness unless you are living in Michigan, Colorado. Washington or some other place where weed is basically legal and with the stuff, get high till the opiods run there course and a you are fine.

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

To Bytor_and_the_snowdog, first I didn't realize that the shrink you see: didn't know about and didn't perscribe the klonipin. Second there are some who will not take kindly to drug use and non-upfront honesty. Call it what they will, but admiting face to face with someone about your deep secrets who is a stranger is very hard. They might also be scared( you said you are a competetive bodybuilder). They may wonder about their safety especially if you are in a larger weight class. The fact that whatever you got, you got them through less than legal channels and might cause them to assume something else and be scared to piss you off.
I do not know or believe that to be the case.
Unfortunately there ain't much a shrink can do accept therapy and maybe some other benzos( methadone and suboxone seem wrong for the limited use you did. A taper if you have withdrawals might be the best. You are a family man which complicates things,ⁿ but mentally you seem done with opiates( recreationally which is a lot of the fight. The subs produce bad, longtime up to a month withdrawals, but could you get off oxy with a fairly quick taper, using extra klonipin maybe Flexiril and any other perscription opiods you can come up with. Can you do this and avoid the subs, because they will create a whole nother bigger worse problem. The mental part seems under control. Ween your self off and means some discomfort and and unpleasantness unless you are living in Michigan, Colorado. Washington or some other place where weed is basically legal and with the stuff, get high till the opiods run there course and a you are fine.

sorry Jnowhere you must of misunderstood me. he (my shrink) does precribe me my klons. thats what im afraid to lose the most and why im on the fence with telling him- im on those for life and i have accepted that. im not addicted in the sense where i take more than im prescibed - if anthing i take less. so to clarify, my shrink does prescribe 4mg a day - but he didnt start me on them. i started them in fla under a different doctor. a general practicioner and when i ,oved to my current stae, i found him to prscribe me.
after reading comments from you and others, i decided prob best not to tell him. im going to do it myself - i see many on here who have been in much worse scenarios and were able to come off. i can always go on the outside and find a private doc to help me if i need to. that would be a worst case scenario. its funny, he only does zoom - since covid he hasnt seen anyone in person so we do zoom calls for about 10 min once a month.
you been a great help man, i really appreciate you taking your time in replying to all my posts.
fyi, today i happen to feel great. i have to see what i did different. i took 1.5 of sub when i woke up and had an ice coffee. i usually wait till 1-2pm to take. that might be the difference.
Have a awesome day my friend

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

It sounds to me like you don't want this shrink to think less of you, so you aren't honest with him. Does that actually help? Like if you aren't honest with him about your coping mechanisms is he going to help you or are you wasting your money?
That was just a thought, I'd definitely NOT trust a doctor of any type because they aren't going to risk losing their cosy lives to help some junkie if there is even the slightest chance it breaks the rules.
Do shrinks have a list of local guidelines of what to do in the situation you describe?
I tried two counsellors. First one I didn't tell because he was an asshole.
A year later I tried another place, thought she was ok, so eventually I told her I've an opiate addiction, she asked had I turned up to sessions high, I said only twice, she freaked out about not having known and wouldn't see me in person after that, we went to phonecalls.
The fact she hadn't noticed says a lot about her lack of knowledge on the subject.
Her colleague who does addiction was off sick getting a hip replacement.
Neither was an actual doctor, doctors are expensive, don't know if they behave differently.
Can't you taper down the subs? It sounds like you're on a low dose, but I know that doesn't matter much because it's the last few mgs that are the hardest to kick no matter what you start at.
For myself, when I can't get anything else I turn to buprenorphine and it is slow to get out of your system again afterwards, but I don't have any intention of living opiate free, my efforts go into keeping it under control and I cut down in the unpleasant way when I need to reduce my tolerance, in theory, these things rarely go to plan.
If I had to be on bupe forever it wouldn't matter to me, it doesn't impair anything, but since you want off it, I'd recommend loads of high dose vitamin c, honestly, there is no upper limit, you can take as much as you have and it really helps. So do Black Cohosh herbal tablets, max strength always for opiate withdrawals, there is an upper limit for those and a time limit of 3 months, they help the chills and sweats. Weed also helps in general, I use it to extend the time I can last between opiates.
I think you've got the right attitude to walk away from this. Very good luck to you.

think less of me? i cant really disagree - i wouldnt care what he thought of me or anyone else for that matter, but i think he sees me as one of his more stable patients. so i suppose youre right. with that said, im def more afraid of losing him. im just going to do this myself and as i mentioned to jnohere, if for whatever reason i cant do it or relapse, ill find a private doc. my mind races with dif scenarios. trust me i also thought of just staying on. but then i think, i wasnt a heavy user for that long to ascertain that scenario. i also dont know the long term sides - the friggin constipation is a nightmare. remember i eat a good 6 meals a day, and if i dont go one day - the next day is torture.
i might mention to my GP - hes a bit more liberal and easy going i think. he sees me as the stigmatic dumb bodybuilder (he monitors my bloodwork and scans)
btw, i see you mentioned clonidine and raise in BP - isnt it supposed to do the opposite?
i appreciate your input - thank you

 

[jasperkent]

Many years ago I was prescribed Xanax (later switched to Klonipin) for general anxiety and occasional panic attacks. Benzodiazepines always helped me at first-- like for a few weeks. But using them long-term always resulted in worse symptoms.

 

[Jnowhere]

I wouldn't mention it to your gp in case something happened to you and you really needed a script for opiod painkillers.
Privacy is almost none existant anymore, and keeping your medical records in good shape ( meaning: you are not associated with drug abuse, can only be a positive, who knows what shit our power hungry politicians, who have no respect for personal privacy, might try)
The government keeps records, and if you can keep your name; NOT ASSOCIATED WITH ADDICTION OR DRUG ABUSE, YOU WILL BE MUCH BETTER OFF IN THE LONG RUN.
As a long time Opiode user; They will cause massive constipation issues, kill your appetite and : For those who become lifetime addicts; destroy all motivation you have, except to get more dope.

SUBOXONE contains buprenorphine which is a long lasting opiode, which can cause withdrawals for a month. Those subs, will enslave you, and as a long time opiode user, will kill your appetite and make taking a decent shit, a distant memory.
What if you tell your GP? and other doctors look at your medical records and find out?
There is no privacy between your different doctors, they have a right to know, and the more they know, the more every other doctor you go to will know also. We are not talking about allergies to meds, but addiction in your files: That will screw you over if you really someday need painkillers. As for me, I have a bad liver and pure opiods are safer for me. My doc will not give me anything with An NSAID in it. But I say get clean, stay clean, and keep quiet to doctors or anyone that could use it against you. There is a big difference between reaching out for help here and going to the medical community in your case. Remember this, your shrink has a right to see all your medical records( he does prescribe, doesn't he) and he is human, and people regardless of their profession: Do not like being deceived. Even if you trust your GP, he still might put it in your file. Files are now electronic, and people can see them. Trust and the reality, of what our society has become are two very different things.

 

[papercuts]

think less of me? i cant really disagree - i wouldnt care what he thought of me or anyone else for that matter, but i think he sees me as one of his more stable patients. so i suppose youre right. with that said, im def more afraid of losing him. im just going to do this myself and as i mentioned to jnohere, if for whatever reason i cant do it or relapse, ill find a private doc. my mind races with dif scenarios. trust me i also thought of just staying on. but then i think, i wasnt a heavy user for that long to ascertain that scenario. i also dont know the long term sides - the friggin constipation is a nightmare. remember i eat a good 6 meals a day, and if i dont go one day - the next day is torture.
i might mention to my GP - hes a bit more liberal and easy going i think. he sees me as the stigmatic dumb bodybuilder (he monitors my bloodwork and scans)
btw, i see you mentioned clonidine and raise in BP - isnt it supposed to do the opposite?
i appreciate your input - thank you

You're very welcome. Sorry if "think less of you" was a tactless way of saying it, it just covers a lot of bases is all, whatever the worry is.
I have a good respect for doctors, I've seen how much work goes into someone becoming a doctor and they are right to protect themselves.
So are we.
We are right to protect ourselves from an invasion of privacy and all the judgement that comes with it.
It's all part of the fricking game really, get out if you can, as quietly as you can, that's my advice even though I don't have the strength or even the will to do it myself.
In February this year I was determined to quit for a trip overseas I couldn't get out of and I nearly did.
Every time you quit, the withdrawals are worse than last time. It's all in the tapering thread.
I thought I couldn't do it, I'd tapered then CTed from a low amount and on the second day I was in a really bad way, desperate for relief, I made the decision to tell my doctor, get some methadone and be done with it. That was a landmark moment in my head, it told me where i am in this game and didn't impress me.
I'd have done anything at that point for relief, even fuck up my own medical future.

Didn't happen in the end because I had buprenorphine and also managed to sleep a bit and I'd changed my mind when I woke up and just kept sticking on more bupe patches until I felt OK.
But then I'm addicted to bupe and it's not even a full agonist.
Buprenorphine can and does give a month of withdrawals, then there is the depression to deal with for many months.
It sucks and it seems my way of dealing with the depression is to relapse back to my DOC. That's where I am now, saving my bupe for the next time I kick.

You're right, Clonidine is a blood pressure reducing med that takes away withdrawal symptoms (that can include high BP) but my BP went too low, then too high when I cut down, more than 200/100.
It took me months to wean myself off them very very slowly. However physically you are a body builder, I'm a bit skinny, so your body would likely be more resilient than mine to these shocks.
Get those chewable vitamin C candies and live on them for a few days while you quit.
For constipation Magnesium Oxide and that good old Vitamin C might help, obvs not needed if you're quitting. SD Bells coffee is a good laxative too! Definitely a common problem.
I'm still on Prozac from another attempt to kick. Never got weaned of that because I like being happy and I figure it all helps.
I'm just basically living until I die, no other plans in life, but fuck it, in this minute I'm happy really really happy as it happens, people around me are content with how I am and my morning stomach pains are almost away too.

What do you want out of life?

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

i do know he wouldnt take someone who had a histroy of abuse, i recommended them to him and they were honest with him and h denied them. thats the main reason im afraid to tell him.

Ok bloody heck. If that's the situation keep quiet about it if otherwise you'd lose care. (I find his attitude unethical and unprofessional in that case.)

Any chance of changing to a different doc who's more 'druggie-friendly' ?


PS I've had the problem with a few docs unfortunately where as soon as I was upfront about the fact I had a drug problem, not so much that I was outright refused treatment (though that's happened as well), but more usually that any and all of my UNRELATED mental health issues were immediately blamed on my drug use and waved off.

Like 'stop bothering me and just get clean and that'll solve all your problems'. No matter how much I tried to explain that the only REASON I was doing drugs to excess in the first place was because of my mental health problems. This type of attitude is sadly quite common.