Opioids Need Advice Getting Off Fentynal

[cowgirl0510]

so I’m having some severe anxiety about getting off of fentynal as I’ve heard the withdrawal is hell. I’m not even sure how much I’ve been taking. I have some 10mg Percocet and I have suboxone so my thoughts were to maybe wean down to percs then subs to avoid precipitated withdrawal. I’ve also read about microdosing and considered trying that. Any advice?

 

[DKs]

Why not switch to methadone via prescription? I don't know how much you've been taking, how and for how long, so I can't really give you advice regarding percocet, but fenta -> is most certainly not going to work and your tolerance is likely to be much to high for 10 mg percocet to make a real difference.

 

[morphonorconic]

Fentanyl withdrawal is extremely acute; symptoms come on more rapidly than with any other common opioid save maybe hydromorphone. I won't lie they can be brutal. But they also are over quickly. I don't know if you mean microdosing buprenorphine or what, but I'd start as you said with the oxycodone to bridge the worst of it, allowing you some time before taking the bupe where you're not in unbearable agony, then jump onto the suboxone- in small doses and wait as long as you can so as to not make things worse.

 

[cowgirl0510]

Why not switch to methadone via prescription? I don't know how much you've been taking, how and for how long, so I can't really give you advice regarding percocet, but fenta -> is most certainly not going to work and your tolerance is likely to be much to high for 10 mg percocet to make a real difference.

I’m not sure if there’s anywhere near me that offers methadone or how that works. I heard it’s hard to get off of too.
Been taking pressed fake 30s for a year or so and fent powder 4-5 weeks. I think I’m going to go the micro dosing route as I’ve tried waiting ad then going to subs and had precipitated withdrawal. I’m just nervous to try it hoping it doesn’t make me feel awful. I need to be able to function and work.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Oh 4-5 weeks? Don't go on methadone. At least the standard maintenance route. If you are still struggling months from now, then perhaps.

Subs will be good. Just withdrawal, eat the percs if they help, then when you can't take it any longer (after a few days) then take a sub. Smallest piece. You won't get PWD and will probably be fine. Take another day or 2 worth, and stop. Perhaps another way to take them for a week then taper for a week if you feel you need longer than just a bit.

The problem is you are going to be ill and will need time off work. Perhaps where a 30 day methadone detox taper will help. I noticed my clinic is now even offering these.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I have never been able to kick fent without suboxone in hand. It is the single most horrible withdrawal I have ever gone through. Every second. With suboxone you can expect to be a little bit sick and sleeping all the time for the first day or two after administration? But then you'll feel good again I couldn't stop sweating or sleeping the first day I took suboxone for some reason.

After the subs are gone--they tend to have a minimal but long-lasting gloomy withdrawal towards the last strip/tablet being consumed. It's barely noticeable but it's definitely there especially if you use subs for longer than a week. > from there I would actually use a tiny bit of percocet for the sub withdrawal but after the opioid blocking mechanism is no longer in your brain (which notoriously is a suboxone characteristic 2-3 days after stopping subs give or take for most I'd say). I know the percocet at the very end is ironic and probably misleading... but a short term opioid in my opinion for some reason helps stop the long lasting duration of the fent/sub withdrawal combo. As long as you have self control with percocet.. but that's an arbitrary and personal thing. Percocet in itself is highly addictive so where you place it in this gameplay is up to you lol. You will not be able to feel the percocet literally at all if you use it while on suboxone.
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Methadone is a definitely no-go I agree with the abover user. It in itself has a withdrawal that people sometimes never break out of.

 

[DKs]

I’m not sure if there’s anywhere near me that offers methadone or how that works. I heard it’s hard to get off of too.
Been taking pressed fake 30s for a year or so and fent powder 4-5 weeks.

Oh 4-5 weeks? Don't go on methadone. At least the standard maintenance route. If you are still struggling months from now, then perhaps.

Well, from what OP wrote here he WILL be struggling. Honestly: methadone is not that bad a a "replacement" drug (that is what substitution or maintenance means). So, of course it is just addictive as all the other opioids/full agonists. Methadone withdrawal can be lengthy, but you can always (at least here) taper down in your own time. Only a tiny bit every week. Only once you're stable enough not to relapse at once, of course.
I detoxed after 2 years from 80 mg of Methadone per day going cold turkey, ie from 80 mg to 0 from one day to the other and i must say it's not really any different from stopping other opioids. Withdrawal takes longer than with most others, but is way less intense, too.
Your decision, at the end of the day. I'm just saying that I think it seems unlikely you'll remain clean for long.
I'm sure you'll find a methadone clinic or a medical doc who can prescribe it to you near you by google or just by asking yout current GP or pharmacist or whatever. Should not be too hard to work out.
Only you can know for sure what's right for you, at the end of the day. No-one here knows you.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

A quick methadone taper would be best. Just most clinics do not offer this, sadly.

I find methadone easier to kick than heroin personally. Because yes, its a controlled taper drop by drop.

Never made it more than a couple of weeks from the H willingly. However when using that life is too close to you. Need time to break away from it. Nobody will quit H when they are staring at fresh tracks, or seeing a new vein pop out after taking a shower sick.

Certainly methadone is an option, when considering the full habit.

A better option if you need to work, get away from bad people, bad living situation, etc. Buys you time. Or if you think you are going to jail, hurry up and join the clinic since then you will get a nice 21 day detox in jail .

Even so, tread carefully. Don't want to turn just over a year of mistakes into a 10 year long run. When you have no underlying issues opiates aren't so bad to get off. Once physical pain and age is involved it becomes a whole new game.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I'm sorry I usually try to see every viewpoint and remain calm and picture what everyone is saying from their perspective--but I don't understand why you are pushing the methadone thing? It has its benefits for sure and saves lives but it also destroys them.

OP has enough tools to battle the fent withdrawal and at least make an attempt to at least level off with weaker ones if he/she continues to use. Methadone kills the chance of that happening. You can most certainly taper off but it's such a long and drawn-out battle and many people taper down off methadone but absolutely struggle beyond doubt to completely get off it. It doesn't make sense to me because I think that it is overkill for OP to get on methadone. Fent withdrawal is notoriously awful but it has a shorter half life than most opiates so it's very intense but shorter in duration sickness wise. Methadone is such a long haul so if the treatment route is the way to go than I think a suboxone doctor would make more sense.. although I don't know about insurance and how methadone clinics work if they even cost anything for some people at all.

Not to mention if someone loves opioids as it is they're really going to love methadone adding fuel to the fire. Methadone is probably great for people who redose IV heroin day after day with wicked tolerance.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Not sure whom you are replying to. Myself or DKs?

Assuming me since you replied direct.

I didn't recommend maintenance. If a methadone detox was available, then for sure that would be a no brainer. Unfortunately, clinics do not offer this.

DKs followed up with the truth. This person is going to be struggling regardless. And a short maintenance could work. I agreed.

Suboxone and methadone are the same. However I will argue methadone is 10000x better. From getting on, to being on, to getting off. In fact, it is documented that suboxone withdrawal is LONGER than methadone. And from what I felt off bupe withdrawals, they are more like a fast acting opiate in how the withdrawal comes on. Was already puking / dry heaving on the 3rd day. Never once puked in methadone withdrawal coming off all kinds of doses. There is nothing easier or harder about sub vs methadone withdrawal. Its an opiate withdrawal either way. Too much is not known about long term bupe usage. Staying on that stuff for years will do some damage due to ingesting an antagonist daily. Would not recommend my worst enemy to take that stuff for more than 7-14 days MAX. Believe me, there is a reason they have just as much value as a common anti depressant. None.

In regards to methadone, if you raise your dose to 100mg, sit there for 10 years, you are in trouble. But imagine someone on bupe for 10 years would be in more than just trouble, they just spent a decade taking an antagonist. Anything that strips receptors and blocks anything but super high affinity fent is bad news. And the millions of stories I read about bupe withdrawal show that. Even that other thread, the guy can't even skip 1 day of his bupe. Once stabilized on methadone, the withdrawal doesn't even start until 2-3 days.

Getting on 30mg of methadone, stabilizing for 7 days, then coming down 1/2mg a day is the easiest way off. There is just no profit in this for the clinics to keep someone at the clinic for 3 weeks, so they don't offer it. If the OP was able to scrape up even 7 days worth would make it 100x easier than cold turkey. Methadone is a proper drug.

You will take a sub when sick enough, but anything more than once or twice, forget it. These guys basically took an opiate and turned it into something screwed up to block abuse.

I don't recommend maintenance just yet. But if your attempts fail, do not discount the fact you can join a clinic, be taken out of active addiction in the snap of your fingers, stabilize and be off in 6 months.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Not sure whom you are replying to. Myself or DKs?

Assuming me since you replied direct.

I didn't recommend maintenance. If a methadone detox was available, then for sure that would be a no brainer. Unfortunately, clinics do not offer this.

DKs followed up with the truth. This person is going to be struggling regardless. And a short maintenance could work. I agreed.

Suboxone and methadone are the same. However I will argue methadone is 10000x better. From getting on, to being on, to getting off. In fact, it is documented that suboxone withdrawal is LONGER than methadone. And from what I felt off bupe withdrawals, they are more like a fast acting opiate in how the withdrawal comes on. Was already puking / dry heaving on the 3rd day. Never once puked in methadone withdrawal coming off all kinds of doses. There is nothing easier or harder about sub vs methadone withdrawal. Its an opiate withdrawal either way. Too much is not known about long term bupe usage. Staying on that stuff for years will do some damage due to ingesting an antagonist daily. Would not recommend my worst enemy to take that stuff for more than 7-14 days MAX. Believe me, there is a reason they have just as much value as a common anti depressant. None.

In regards to methadone, if you raise your dose to 100mg, sit there for 10 years, you are in trouble. But imagine someone on bupe for 10 years would be in more than just trouble, they just spent a decade taking an antagonist. Anything that strips receptors and blocks anything but super high affinity fent is bad news. And the millions of stories I read about bupe withdrawal show that. Even that other thread, the guy can't even skip 1 day of his bupe. Once stabilized on methadone, the withdrawal doesn't even start until 2-3 days.

Getting on 30mg of methadone, stabilizing for 7 days, then coming down 1/2mg a day is the easiest way off. There is just no profit in this for the clinics to keep someone at the clinic for 3 weeks, so they don't offer it. If the OP was able to scrape up even 7 days worth would make it 100x easier than cold turkey. Methadone is a proper drug.

You will take a sub when sick enough, but anything more than once or twice, forget it. These guys basically took an opiate and turned it into something screwed up to block abuse.

I don't recommend maintenance just yet. But if your attempts fail, do not discount the fact you can join a clinic, be taken out of active addiction in the snap of your fingers, stabilize and be off in 6 months.

Ah okay I fully appreciate you clarifying and backing up the post with a personal experience. Why would an antagonist be harmful to digest just curious?

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

It can not be good for your brain to put something in it daily that strips receptors. Its like the anti d of opiates.

Other antagonists such as the implants, people have cut them out themselves. Could imagine the torture of an antagonist leaking into you 24/7 when you trying to get your mind back.

Many people on bupe now say they cannot feel other opiates.

And my experience with it is that is makes you feel like crap. Inducing onto it can be a horrid experience as well.

Especially when there is the tried and true methadone that has been around for near 100 years now. If im going to take an opiate and catch a withdrawal, it better feel damn good and not play with my brain like that. If sub did indeed have some super minor minor withdrawal, then I would think different. The withdrawal just as bad, if not worse.

The one thing bupe is good for is to keep in your drawer just in case you may ever need it. Or a friend.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

I didn't make any claims man. I said we will certainly see more studies about this drug in future is all.

And common sense you wouldn't want to strip your receptors day after day.

Lastly, easy to look around at all the people I know that get it scripted. None take it. Unless they are desperate.

Endogenous opioids are enkephalins and endorphins that are primarily produced in the brain and have multiple actions throughout the body. Enkephalins and endorphins act at opioid receptors and their activity can be blocked by opioid antagonists.

Enjoy your subs Or take them like you should. For a few days and off. Taking that stuff daily is again something not to be enjoyed as the dependence is not even close to being worth it.

 

[DKs]

Well, if you get along with Buprenorphine... I never did. But Fentanyl -> Methadone seems to be the least painful option available. I would go with this. Morphine-Sulfate is used in the German speaking world, too and is at least as good as Methadone. Over long time in maintenance therapy Morphine is even superior to Methadone. But you just don't get it in most parts of the world.
My favorite for opioid maintenance is still DHC but, just like Morphine-Sulfate, not available for this indication in most parts of the world.

Oh and EDIT: As I mentioned here (or somewhere else recently *?*): Methadone is not half as bad as its reputation, imho. SOme people loce PBuprenorphine, too. But its rather a kind of stimulating opioid and not sedating or "blocking" all your feelings and things from outside like noises and bright lights, and so on... at all.