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NDMA Agonist

Oddeye said:
NMDA can create a depression feeling, the depression come from an enhanced sensivity to everything. Meaning if you cut your finger, you'll feel the pain during long and you will recall it for a pretty damn long time. The NMDA is expressed when you are young, remember how much it hurted when you fell off your chair from the first time? Remember how you remember it. (Meh not the best exemple but whatever)
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fastandbulbous said:
I was held down by one at about age 5 while they administered the anaesthetic gas - it's a scary thing for a little kid to experience and has formed my adult fear of dentists
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Would that be a better example Oddeye?
 
Lol raybeez, that a funny thing since the gas was maybe an NMDA antagonist :)

So it would be possible to relive the experience well prepared (I'm guessing without being held down) and fall into dreams without being scared at all. It might as well take away all the fear you ever had and make you love dentist (I'm exaggerating a little maybe ;-P )
 
This is whacky.

No NMDA agonists are safe. They will blow holes in your brain. Theoretically, an alosteric positive modulator (think benzos, but for NMDA receptor, not GABA-A), could be helpful, but as far as I know, they don't exist.
 
They will cause massive excitotoxicity be causing large-scale Ca2+ influx into the cell. NMDA itself, the natural cell agonist, is an excitotoxin when levels of it rise too high.
The more powerful an agonist something is in activating the NMDA receptor, the more likely it will cause damage is.
 
MattPsy said:
They will cause massive excitotoxicity be causing large-scale Ca2+ influx into the cell. NMDA itself, the natural cell agonist, is an excitotoxin when levels of it rise too high.
The more powerful an agonist something is in activating the NMDA receptor, the more likely it will cause damage is.
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Yes, please read the thread, thanks. I have said IF it was non-toxic. I am totally aware of the toxicity of NMDA throught the Ca2+. The plasticity is directly linked to the Ca2+ influx I think.
 
So the cells will undergo apoptosis (sp?) due to unbalanced ion levels? Then they die, thats reasonable. Holes=dead cells.
The reason it bugged me when the hole thing was mentioned is that many less informed people claim all sorts of drugs cause holes in your brain. In fact, I had a discussion about NO2 doing this with a less-than-informed future biotech employed biochem major just the day before. I obviously hold more regard for BliZ0rs opinion on the matter but can be anal about word choice :)
 
MattPsy said:
...NMDA itself, the natural cell agonist, is an excitotoxin when levels of it rise too high.
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The natural NMDA agonist is glutamate, NMDA itself isn't present in the body.
 
Yeah, but saying "if you had a non-toxic NMDA agonist" is like saying "if you had a non-lethal nuclear bomb".
 
Dr.Heckyll said:
The natural NMDA agonist is glutamate, NMDA itself isn't present in the body.
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Ah yes, my bad.
Lol BilZ0r, that's a rather apt description.

Oddeye: You cannot separate the effects of NMDA agonism from the damage that occurs when it happens. They go hand in hand.
 
MattPsy said:
Oddeye: You cannot separate the effects of NMDA agonism from the damage that occurs when it happens. They go hand in hand.
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No, or else glutamate would not be a neurotransmitter.
It wouldn't make sense to have a receptor that is not agonizable without damage, it makes no evolutionary sense.
 
Ok, more correctly, at levels of agonism seen over that of baseline glutamate activity (how much over, I don't know, but probably not much). Which there /will/ be, because if you're taking a NMDA agonist, it's action is going to be in addition to that of preexisting endogenous glutamate.
 
So do excess levels of glutamate induce cell death?
I wonder if MSG is a neurotoxin then???
 
Very interesting...
If not obvious by now, my neuropharmacology is lacking in comparison to some others on the bored...
But to steer this dying thread in a new direction, what is the addiction potential of partial NDMA agonists?
For instance, I believe some of the "anti-depressant" effects of post-K exposure is due to something like a receptor upregulation that makes the brain more sensitive to glutamate.
Personal experience has shown that MSG in foods is ADDICTIVE. Yes, when I eat some junk food, I can instantly tell if it has MSG in it because I cannot put it down. I have to keep stuffing my face until my will power takes over (which is quite strong ;))
I've also heard that in some parts of Africa, MSG is sold by sinister ice-cream-truck-like salesman that drive around and dispense little baggies of MSG to kids who eat it with gay abandon. PLAIN!
Sprinkle it on anything and it tastes good and makes you want to eat more.
I don't believe this is simply a taste/sodium reflex. Glutamate is readily water soluble and could cross into the bloodstream through the mouth and be into the brain in seconds.
Am I crazy? yes, but has anyone else experienced this or have anything to mention about how NDMA receptor agonism could be involved with addictive behavior?
-note, I do not have an addictive personality (alright, aside from the ganj, but c'mon, thats not really addictive ;)) so this is a real, distinct behavioral abnormality for me.
 
Thats an interesting view.

To me, the medicinal antidepressive aspect that I take Ketamine for is not the post-dissociatve stimulation, since the doses I take it at hardly produces dissociation or stimulation thereafter.

My opinion is that Ketamine may, even in small quantities, inhibilit amygdaloid currents, causing the irrational fear of existing and the extreme depression it brings on to neutralize.

In any case, I doubt it is the post-dissociative stimulation that is anti-depressant. If I haden't taken Ketamine or a long time, I almost always get an anxiety rebound after the dissociation wears off. But three or four uses, at any dose, takes care of that,
 
MSG doesn't have shit on d-glucose (the best drug ever) for me. Put some candy in front of me and it'll all be gone in 10 minutes.. MSG tastes alright but it's not really addictive.
 
So, Lefetamine, as well as being a stimulant, is an opiate & NMDA antagoinst. Does this mean that it's toxic?
 
If it is, it's not obviously, I don't think... It may be neurotoxic to the dopaminergic system, ala amphetamine.
 
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