Narcan: The Next Big Thing In Pain Management

[LightTrailz]

^ Hahaha , i was just thinking the same thing but decided not to post it . fuck , we dont even have a foothold in the bupe department yet .. and i highly doubt theyre just going to STOP making the other formulations of particular narcotic medications just to put that antagonist shit in them ..

i could see them making something for the group of individuals known to have / do abuse their pain medication so that they can treat chronic pain in persons with the risk of abuse . but i highly doubt theyre just going to stop making all those other medications just because something new has come out , so dont believe everything you read .

They had been working on that oxycontin / naltrexone mix since 3 years ago . and it has yet to be put on the market . IF theyre so concerned about making these new medications , they would have had this new formulation out along time ago , instead of posting this crap on the internet to get everyone scared of having to take something thats not abuseable ... please , ill worry once its actually a problem. again it comes down to , if you dont abuse your pain medication you have nothing to worry about . get over it .

 

[thanatron]

As I empathize thoroughly with the conceptual backings of this projected idea. I also am just as entirely resentful of the implementation of such a system. Being an IV drug user. But, on the same note. It may be a good thing for me, as I've grown too fond to the needle and perhaps should return to classic ingestion and insufflation use of pills. Regardless, I don't think we'll see the drug exporters and importers cutting diacetylmorphine with Nalaxone, So there's always good ol' heroin for you IV lovers. But as far as curing the epidemic, from an adverse advocational point of you, I think it's a brilliant thing. But being part of the epidemic myself, it frightens me. But in conclusion, I don't see this happening realistically. The drug companies make too much money off the legal addicts and need that element to keep pain management centers open. So, Yeah. That's my outlook.

 

[lenses]

Thats a pretty ultra low dose of naloxone. That kind of dose actually makes the opiate work BETTER. It forget the pharmacology of it right now, but that low of a dose will not block . Thats like a microgram (ug) dose , right?

Naloxone isn't impossible to seperate if you wanted to badly enough. Theres a way you can with cheap, easy accessible chemicals. I won't say yet right now, but you should be able to figure it out. PM if you really need to know.

 

[Tchort]

I apologize in letting two seperate notions blend together. Part of the conspiracy-theory esque language is based on the notion that a successfully produced tamper proof potent opioid analgesic formulation would be released, and that it would be in the form of a agonist/antagonist mix. 'What if'ing is all.

The other products will not be discontinued, they will simply be prescribed less. The point for the pharmaceutical companies is to continually release new patented brand products as their old brand patents run out (and generic production begins).

Long term use of agonist/antagonist analgesics has not been tested, and is not a 'sure thing'. While some studies point to improved analgesia from ULD antagonist + agonist opioids, what is the situation years down the line? Whats the side effect profile like, is it similar to other partial or full agonist/antagonist products (which have a standing record of increased sid effects)? Does it change over time?

They had been working on that oxycontin / naltrexone mix since 3 years ago . and it has yet to be put on the market .

It takes about a decade for any single formulation to go through the Phase I-II trials, the studies, the FDA approval, marketing, etc. and finally make it to the pharmacy shelves. It takes a long period of time to lapse between conception and release.

The problem I see is the emergence of more lies to make unlimited amounts of money from vulnerable sick people.

The evidence presented that ultra low dose/low dose antagonists promotes analgesia when combined with an opioid partial or full agonist is based on very small study samples, and is (from all I've seen) based on single-dose response vs single dose of opioid-only analgesic; not repeat doses, or over a time span.

Claims are made that the small doses of antagonist will not adversely effect the patient taking them as directed- this has been refuted (reluctantly) by the pharm. companies themselves (who now admit that in 'some patients' extremely low doses of antagonists taken regularly will cause unpleasant side effects such as headaches, nausea, etc).

Opiophobia drives the opioid analgesic market; claims that a new formulation will be less addictive, less prone to abuse, tamper proof, etc are made for virtually every new opioid put on the market. Following the example of Talwin NX/Suboxone, these agonist/antagonist analgesics are already following suit claiming to be all of the above (read the statements from OxyTrek/Embeda's parent companies). This has already been proven by bioassay on the street to be completely false, as both drugs continue to be abused via all routes of administration, and this farce will continue for many new meds to come.

PainDoc- I will send you an e-mail with a less disjointed and more linear line of thought. Sometimes I let ideas run together and tangents form without following up, as is obvious by this thread. I disagree with many parts of your post, but appreciate the response. I look forward to responding.

 

[sonnyluv]

Superb thread. I wonder how many licensed medical pro's are checking this out- pondering the truths and motive's behind our collective pharmacology.

Just my two cents: DEA pushes Big Pharm sales and policies. There is really no actual policing going on. Just an enforced, legislated marketing plan and the project coordinator happens to be the DEA, with the widget supplier being Pharm, and Physicians, NP's, PA's, being the sales people.
Whether or not partial agonists work isn't the point (which for users is the crux of the ethical dilemna). New pill formulas are just product for our increasingly (and alarmingly) medicated society-world.

To all you IV users out there: Yup, you are not on the top of Pharm's priority list. But soon enough the incredible plethora of addicts (with all of our varying degrees of abuse) will become a product in and of itself. Those left behind.

 

[rachamim]

Great thread Tchort. I had not realise the patent on Kadian was set to expire. On the compounding of Antagonists. The idea is that they will only antagonise if the tablet is misused because of pH sensitive regulatory mechanisms. Those that consume it as directed, orally and uncrushed will not have issues. It will not effect "euphoria" or anything else for that matter.

On "Ts and Blues," reminds me of old heads cooking Paregoric on the stove, mixing the target with the same anti-histamine. It was wide open in NYC and they used to call it "Blue Velvet." The "Blue" is self explanatory but the "Velvet" relates to the consistency of that cooked target from the Paregoric.

When I first entered MMYT in NYC the ID cards for programmes used to have disclaimers on the bottom warning MDs, etc. not to administer Talwin (of course they mants Talwin NX which was the only form at that point). Times have changed...

To the poster who asked about other countires...Not only are they not advertised in the Philippines, they are arely seen period. There is not even an illicit opiate/opioid trade and until this year there was not even codeine by Rx (although 3 heavier opioids were but almost impossible for most to obtain).