My therapist dropped me cause I couldn't say I'll quit all drugs forever

[Mycophile]

It should be possible to help some one without actually been through or at least experiencing it.

A very common dream is that you can fly, it feel's very real. Maybe you had one, or a sort like one. So our mind has the power to produce something it hasn't experienced.

Well it is possible, but it's definitely a disadvantage to not have used drugs or been an addict when helping someone with addictions, and an advantage if you have been.

I'll say that if you don't have the right level of understanding it COULD mean that you are not capable of being a good addictions' counselor if you have never used drugs, and I believe with this guy it was certainly one of the things that made him fucking incompetent.

Especially with drugs in general being a subject that often has people naturally biased against it, and because most of them are illegal, it is very easy if you haven't used drugs to be a super huge douchebag who is a know-it all and thinks he knows he to help addicts and be all judgemental about what they should do when he has never experienced how hard it is to stop himself.

If you are the sort of addictions' counselor who IS good at helping addicts but who has not ever used drugs or had addictions, then you will need IMO to be VERY open minded, unbiased, NOT of the opinion that all drugs are always bad no matter what like this asshole, and preferably have known addicts yourself.

This guy wasn't like that at all.

If you are judgmental about drug use AND haven't use drugs yourself, no way you can IMO be a good addictions' counselor.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

@Mycophile

I agree with this whole heartedly. My mind is my biggest strength and also my biggest liability.

My mind fights itself.

If I tell it "forever" , my mind will say "not a chance...LOL".
If I tell it "tomorrow" , it will grunt and say "ok...whatever".

When tomorrow comes, here's what I do... I tell my mind again "Tomorrow. I really mean it this time."
It's not happy but I'm the boss.

I won't go on, but that's when it really starts getting hard for me.

I like the tomorrow scenario. It's a step up from the never ever one. I have used both so have some exp with em

I should go zzzzzzz! , rise with the sun so to say. Good night y'all.

 

[mal3volent]

You seem to not be saying you necessarily think it is a set-in-stone imperative but that that is usually how people who get clean think and speak...am I right about that??

Well what I was referring to was when someone's life comes crashing down on them and they feel as though their whole world will soon end...they may break down and say "never again. From this day forward not a single drug, not a single alcohol will pass mine lips...nay, I will shut them out of my mind completely".

They feel that is true at the time, but as their situation becomes less critical the mind starts to wander. And if they want to succeed long term they'll probably have to come to terms with the fact that few things in life are so cut and dry.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Well it is possible, but it's definitely a disadvantage to not have used drugs or been an addict when helping someone with addictions, and an advantage if you have been.

It's alway's a disadvantage if you have not used drugs. Good night

Weird format btw lol my reply imbedded in the quote

 

[mal3volent]

Like, a different metaphor is that I have had knee and neck injuries from martial arts that I have to do regular physical therapy for, and there's a whole shit load of exercises I am supposed to do, but sometimes it's hard for me to do ALL of them.

For a while I would tell myself "I have to do EVERY SINGLE exercise today" and lots of the time then I wouldn't do any at all cause it just felt like too much you know?"


So then I started telling myself "I DON'T have to do every one, but it would be good if i did, but I am just going to start with 2 of them, and then when I am done with those 2 we'll see" and on MANY occassions I actually did do all or most of my exercises when I said I was probably only doing 2, cause once I was finished with those 2 I'd say to myself "ok, now just try one more, but you don't necessarily have to do more after that", and that would seem not too hard, and I'd keep going and finish them all.

Yeah man EXACTLY. That's a perfect analogy. Take a little at a time. Slow and steady. No need to overwhelm yourself.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

@Mycophile
how you doin' head wise?
hell its hard to get a MF to listen without them looking up youtube diagnosis. ha
whatever shape one is in it would seem most support will come from here. it's the only avenue i have. but then i dont talk to many people and dont care to look in their eyes as a lot of times i do not like what i see. fuck it.
being a veteran substance user gives one knowledge/understanding and this may bring some semblance of how one deals with shit and/or ability to control ones impulses.
idk cause im an impulsive MF
getting a little better at it but still act a fool sometimes
i blame it on never having children
that is all
cept love and best wishes

 

[Mycophile]

@Mycophile
how you doin' head wise?
hell its hard to get a MF to listen without them looking up youtube diagnosis. ha
whatever shape one is in it would seem most support will come from here. it's the only avenue i have. but then i dont talk to many people and dont care to look in their eyes as a lot of times i do not like what i see. fuck it.
being a veteran substance user gives one knowledge/understanding and this may bring some semblance of how one deals with shit and/or ability to control ones impulses.
idk cause im an impulsive MF
getting a little better at it but still act a fool sometimes
i blame it on never having children
that is all
cept love and best wishes

Thanks for asking.

Well, hard to answer how I am "head wise" cause a number of things haven't been going so well in my life, but right now I am high on Dexadrine, Kratom, strong coffee and a little left over Phenibut that is wearing off, so I feel good, but truth is I need to not be using these drugs and that's part of the reason I've been messed up lately.

Anyways, I guess I can't complain too much at the moment haha.

Yeah man, I feel like when I talk to people here, and probably even more the mental health forum if I know people are both substance users and have some mental-shit going on as well, I feel like you people get me.

A lot of people in life are just not going to understand people like you and me.

Even in real life I like to hang out with the freaks haha.

To get close to someone I have to know that they are not totally normal hahah, and I have to feel like they have had those times they feel like they are "losing their shit", and that they know what it's like to feel "altered" and different, whether it's from drugs or just feeling that way in general.

I tend to imagine that most people in life really don't understand the kind of subjective experiences people like us talk about, and we might not even be high, it's just that how we think is not the same as others.

I guess I like feeling like my mind is probably different from a lot of other peoples', though it does come at a price sometimes...

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Yeah man, I feel like when I talk to people here, and probably even more the mental health forum if I know people are both substance users and have some mental-shit going on as well, I feel like you people get me.

A lot of people in life are just not going to understand people like you and me.

Even in real life I like to hang out with the freaks haha.

To get close to someone I have to know that they are not totally normal hahah, and I have to feel like they have had those times they feel like they are "losing their shit", and that they know what it's like to feel "altered" and different, whether it's from drugs or just feeling that way in general.

I tend to imagine that most people in life really don't understand the kind of subjective experiences people like us talk about, and we might not even be high, it's just that how we think is not the same as others.

I guess I like feeling like my mind is probably different from a lot of other peoples', though it does come at a price sometimes...

It's alway's a disadvantage if you have not used drugs. But it's not impossible to become a freak without them, just a bit more work! Bit of a joking but through at the same time.

Think about it the ones who introduced the world to a whole erray of highly pure drugs. Themselves at times being the first ones too know about them. Dr's would have been among the first to get detailed info about the effects of the different classes of drug's. Most were OTC at a time, but they seemed to have gradually evolved from pioneers to the unknowingly.

I asked my psychologist when I got diagnosed ADD if she had any experience with the effect's of the med's her clients were on. But during their study an work the possibilty to examine the effect's themselves is not offered.

I wonder if that is a good thing, having dr's, therapist's and the like without any personal exp?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Yeah man EXACTLY. That's a perfect analogy. Take a little at a time. Slow and steady. No need to overwhelm yourself.

Reffering to the analogy, which martial art's?

Imo Aikido warming up and down's very much followed the guidelines of physical therapy. The recommended excercises of the therapist to take home for certain back problem's. These same excersizes were present in the training. Sometimes in a form that seemed even better fit. But that Dojo has a good rep.

I learned rotating your head 'Atlas and Rotator' should never been done with your chin dropping down as far as your neck. Just slightly tilted.

Relaxed, no stress.

 

[BeachBum4u]

Somebody might have already posted this, so sorry if that's the case. I am pretty sure AA and NA make a point of saying that no one can say they will quit forever right here and now. You can only tackle one day at a time. Anymore than that just isn't something one can promise.

 

[tracedwards313]

Honestly, its a waste of time to seek help for any serious psychological issues if you are choosing to abuse drugs recreationally.

Im not trying to sound like a dick here but, perhaps you should think about your therapists decision to drop you and what that truely means. Probably that they dont see themselves as having the ability to help you.

Until you are willing to commit to a seriously length of sobriety, I doubt youll find many therapists that are willing work with you in-depth, outside of addressing your drug issues. Even if you do find a decent therapist, it will be near impossible to achieve much of anything if you are still coping with life by abusing drugs and alcohol.

 

[Mycophile]

Honestly, its a waste of time to seek help for any serious psychological issues if you are choosing to abuse drugs recreationally.

Im not trying to sound like a dick here but, perhaps you should think about your therapists decision to drop you and what that truely means. Probably that they dont see themselves as having the ability to help you.

Until you are willing to commit to a seriously length of sobriety, I doubt youll find many therapists that are willing work with you in-depth, outside of addressing your drug issues. Even if you do find a decent therapist, it will be near impossible to achieve much of anything if you are still coping with life by abusing drugs and alcohol.

I've already admitted that I have to commit to a "serious length of sobriety", but that I am not willing to say "forever", and while I'll agree that you are PARTIALLY right that it is certainly very hard to address psychological issues while using drugs, I have talked to my mother who is a better psychoanalyst than this guy could ever DREAM of being, and she fully thinks he was in the wrong to drop me and that it is generally a sign that he is not a good therapist.

In the end, my not being willing to say I'd quit all drugs forever wasn't the only reason he dropped me, but because he said "I had too many major issues" and "he is used to only dealing with people who have one major issue at a time", and my mother agreed that that is just ridiculous and really weird, and that most people have more than one major issue, and we agreed that this guys is probably not a very good therapist.

I already just stopped using substances a few days ago, and i don't know how long i can go, but this therapist never even asked me whether or not I'd be "committed to attempting to go a significant amount of time without substances",which if he had asked I would have said "yes, I am willing to give it a shot at going as long as I can, but I will not commit to saying it will be forever or necessarily how long it will be."

That IMO should have been enough, but he didn't even ask that question.

He didn't ask if I'd try to go a while, or a year, or anything, only if I'd commit to FOREVER...which I said I would not.

The fact of the matter is, I have seen therapists before and this was a pathetic, incompetent therapist in comparison to much better ones I have seen, and he was incompetent to help me with my issues and saw himself as ill-equipped, which he was.

I am not sure if I had not had drug problems if he'd have been able to help me either.

I think he'd probably have been willing to give it a shot if I didn't, but I don't think, from the way he acted completely overwhelmed by hearing about all my issues, that he would have ended up being helpful.

He was not a good therapist, not equipped to deal with someone with multiple issues, and "what it truly means" that he was not willing to work with me, is that he's a shitty therapist who was in over his head, realizing that all his years of training would not be enough to help someone with as many issues as me, regardless of what they were, that he didn't take the time to ask me if I'd try to go without drugs for even a little while, to which I'd have said "YES", and that basically, he just felt overwhelmed and didn't want to deal with me, cause he knew deep down he really wasn't all that good.

 

[Mafioso]

Sorry I didn't have time to read through the whole thing but the ethical thing to do would have been to refer you to a substance use disorder counselor who could then work in conjunction with your regular therapist. It's pretty well understood now that often one disorder(mental/emotional) leads to the other disorder(SUD/addiction) and vice a versa.

If you are unwilling to work with a SUD counselor or address any drug issues immediately, and if your therapist believes that any of the problems that he/she is attempting to treat is the result of or amplified by drug use, then it'd be unethical for him/her to continue to treat and charge you money. It'd be like a physical trainer who continued to charge the client despite the client admitting to not changing their diet. I know this is an extreme example, and your situation is much more nuanced, but this is the general response I've heard from the counselor/therapist side. Many view it as potentially enabling behavior by helping the client cope with the symptoms while not addressing the true issue.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Sorry I didn't have time to read through the whole thing but the ethical thing to do would have been to refer you to a substance use disorder counselor who could then work in conjunction with your regular therapist. It's pretty well understood now that often one disorder(mental/emotional) leads to the other disorder(SUD/addiction) and vice a versa.

If you are unwilling to work with a SUD counselor or address any drug issues immediately, and if your therapist believes that any of the problems that he/she is attempting to treat is the result of or amplified by drug use, then it'd be unethical for him/her to continue to treat and charge you money. It'd be like a physical trainer who continued to charge the client despite the client admitting to not changing their diet. I know this is an extreme example, and your situation is much more nuanced, but this is the general response I've heard from the counselor/therapist side. Many view it as potentially enabling behavior by helping the client cope with the symptoms while not addressing the true issue.

Same thing happened to me when I was actively being an alcoholic. I was pissed off at first, but now that I'm sober for the most part I understand it better from the therapist's perspective.

 

[srv45]

Try saying you won't use no matter what.....Just for Today....

 

[tracedwards313]

I've already admitted that I have to commit to a "serious length of sobriety", but that I am not willing to say "forever", and while I'll agree that you are PARTIALLY right that it is certainly very hard to address psychological issues while using drugs, I have talked to my mother who is a better psychoanalyst than this guy could ever DREAM of being, and she fully thinks he was in the wrong to drop me and that it is generally a sign that he is not a good therapist.

In the end, my not being willing to say I'd quit all drugs forever wasn't the only reason he dropped me, but because he said "I had too many major issues" and "he is used to only dealing with people who have one major issue at a time", and my mother agreed that that is just ridiculous and really weird, and that most people have more than one major issue, and we agreed that this guys is probably not a very good therapist.

I already just stopped using substances a few days ago, and i don't know how long i can go, but this therapist never even asked me whether or not I'd be "committed to attempting to go a significant amount of time without substances",which if he had asked I would have said "yes, I am willing to give it a shot at going as long as I can, but I will not commit to saying it will be forever or necessarily how long it will be."

That IMO should have been enough, but he didn't even ask that question.

He didn't ask if I'd try to go a while, or a year, or anything, only if I'd commit to FOREVER...which I said I would not.

The fact of the matter is, I have seen therapists before and this was a pathetic, incompetent therapist in comparison to much better ones I have seen, and he was incompetent to help me with my issues and saw himself as ill-equipped, which he was.

I am not sure if I had not had drug problems if he'd have been able to help me either.

I think he'd probably have been willing to give it a shot if I didn't, but I don't think, from the way he acted completely overwhelmed by hearing about all my issues, that he would have ended up being helpful.

He was not a good therapist, not equipped to deal with someone with multiple issues, and "what it truly means" that he was not willing to work with me, is that he's a shitty therapist who was in over his head, realizing that all his years of training would not be enough to help someone with as many issues as me, regardless of what they were, that he didn't take the time to ask me if I'd try to go without drugs for even a little while, to which I'd have said "YES", and that basically, he just felt overwhelmed and didn't want to deal with me, cause he knew deep down he really wasn't all that good.

You sound like a self aware person.

Maybe, ditch the entire idea of needing a long term therapist?

You remind me...of me.

 

[Mycophile]

You sound like a self aware person.

Maybe, ditch the entire idea of needing a long term therapist?

You remind me...of me.

Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Well, this last guy has put me off looking for a new therapist for a while, but I'm not so super self-aware that i couldn't use some help, but then again, a lot of therapists have been unable to really help me and sometimes my view towards therapy is that it's not ALWAYS what it is cracked up to be, but you get out what you put in...so long as the therapist is actually GOOD...

I'd rather try more experimental procedures like transcranial magnetic stimulation which sounds interesting.

I tried neurofeedback but it didn't work, which sucks cause i felt it had so much promise and I know it does work for some people and I felt the short term effects but they just didn't last. I think it works...but not for everyone.

I know I'll probably need some different meds and a new psychiatrist, but even that I'm not being as pro-active into looking for.

At the moment I'm just kind of thinking I need to not use many drugs and exercise more and I really don't know what else.

 

[Mycophile]

Sorry I didn't have time to read through the whole thing but the ethical thing to do would have been to refer you to a substance use disorder counselor who could then work in conjunction with your regular therapist. It's pretty well understood now that often one disorder(mental/emotional) leads to the other disorder(SUD/addiction) and vice a versa.

If you are unwilling to work with a SUD counselor or address any drug issues immediately, and if your therapist believes that any of the problems that he/she is attempting to treat is the result of or amplified by drug use, then it'd be unethical for him/her to continue to treat and charge you money. It'd be like a physical trainer who continued to charge the client despite the client admitting to not changing their diet. I know this is an extreme example, and your situation is much more nuanced, but this is the general response I've heard from the counselor/therapist side. Many view it as potentially enabling behavior by helping the client cope with the symptoms while not addressing the true issue.

Yeah, but this idiot claimed to be BOTH a substance disorder counselor AND a therapist, able to help with multiple issues.

Then after seeing him it turned out his whole fucking resume meant "yeah, all those issues...ONE AT A TIME INDEPENDENTLY ONLY...and if you have more than one of them that are bad then he's not equipped to handle it.

Out of all the bad therapists I have seen he wasn't the biggest asshole or the cockiest, but mostly certainly the most OPENLY INCOMPETENT. Almost shocking in his honesty of his own limitations, yet in the end, he never really APOLOGIZED to me...which he should have...

What I think was truly "unethical" on his part, is his entire resume which claims he has the ability to help people who have all these issues, everything from substance use to depression to men's issues to anxiety etc, and then I went to see him and at the end he admitted usually the people he works with only have ONE of those issues and he's not really capable of people who have multiple issues at once which is simply pathetic and weird. Don't advertise you can help with all that shit if you can't help with all of it AT ONCE is my opinion, or it is kind of false advertising.

 

[Mycophile]

Same thing happened to me when I was actively being an alcoholic. I was pissed off at first, but now that I'm sober for the most part I understand it better from the therapist's perspective.

No, I will not ever see this from this particular therapists position simply because I'd becoming from a "position of sobriety" and you guys who say this kind of thing, that it's only cause I wasn't 100% clean and sober that I didn't agree with him", are giving him FAR too much credit.

Like I said, he didn't even drop me mostly cause I wouldn't quit all substances forever, but because I just had more issues then he felt he could help with, and said "I only help people with one major issue" which again, by a better therapists' admission coming from my mother, IS PATHETIC.

And it was not right for him to say that if I wouldn't use the word "FOREVER", that that meant I could not be helped with substances and other issues.

I do not believe that using the word "FOREVER" is necessary, and I stand by that opinion, and I believe that there are substance abuse counselors who would agree that it is not initially necessary to use the word "FOREVER",and that it can be enough to just say you are going to give it your best shot to go as long as you can.

I will never see it from this therapists perspective because he was WRONG.

He was incompetent and pathetic.

 

[nuttynutskin]

The point is you're not going to find any psychiatrist that's fine with you abusing drugs. Good luck.