Help! My Son and E, Butylone (bk-MBDB), MDMA, Mephadrone use and has now attempted suicide

[chopin]

He started at University last October and since doing so has got himself into the drugs mentioned. He has had a few experiences over the last few months with it seemingly and the last experience has left him fucked...

The most recent episode goes like this - since 1st May I think, he's been taking various drugs as mentioned in the title on a daily basis. His last lot was on Wednesday morning where he took I think 200mg Butylone and two or three other things an hour later but these were just topping him up on what was already there but topping up doesn't work properly because once the first lot has released the seratonin, you can't re-release more coz there's none left to release? So basically he's been taking this shit from Saturday til Wednesday so five days of it... during that five day period he's pissed himself in public, had his phone and £70 stolen and of course has lost his dignity which I fear will take a long time to get back now....

He got taken back from University on Wednesday 5th (evening) and as far as I know has had nothing since.

His speech was mumbled for some hours after returning home, he finally went to sleep at 12:00 midday on 6th May... woke at 6:30pm 6th May - could speak but very depressed... since then his mood hasn't improved, he's ratty, moody and this morning, 8th May, he said he wanted to kill himself then made an attempt in his room - called police, what else I could do I don't know... he's now resting ... he's not tried again since...

My questions are:-

-- When will the feelings of suicide subside and will they?
-- Does this shit work in the way I think? That is, by releasing seratonin and if so, when will his seratonin levels reach normal levels again?
-- He wants to go back to Uni next week, he's not ready and I don't think he ever will be, but I can't stop him going or can I? What can I do? That place was where the problem started - I feel like I'm throwing him back to the lions if I let him go back....
-- What the fuck am I gonna do?

He's 18, intelligent but has serious confidence issues which I think is what brought on this episode in the first place....

Please someone help me...

Alone, depressed and at the end of my tether with worry...

 

[Listening]

Unfortunately I don't have any advice for you, so others will have to help out. (Maybe this would be better suited to The Dark Side?) But I just want to say I feel for you, it's a horrible situation for a parent I'm sure.

He wants to go back to Uni next week, he's not ready and I don't think he ever will be...

You sound like you're a caring parent, but keep in mind: People make stupid mistakes, and people learn from those mistakes. Have some faith in your son in spite of what he did. Approach him with that mindset.

 

[jamaica0535]

The recovery from overuse of ecstasy is dependent on the severity and what exactly he was taking. The depression from it can last just a short time or it can persist for weeks. Over time the brain will slowly go back to a more normal state.... A week long binge is nothing that someone shouldn't be able to get very much back to normal within a few weeks.

I would be alarmed at the suicide attempt and the general severity with which this seems to have escalated in a short timeframe. The thing is when you run out of serotonin, that causes depression and when your comming down from all of that with no serotonin and the shit in your life is just hitting the fan, suicide can seem like a way out....

What im saying is that your child probably does have some dependency issues with these things and that it was the shit hitting the fan in his life all at once combined with the terrible comedown of all of this stuff that caused him to do the suicide attempt.

Consider rehab, its up to you to determine if its bad enough. If not rehab i would at the very least suggest that he see a psycologist/psychiatrist.... Whether or not you need a rehab facility or just a doctor is pretty much up to the question of, did depression cause the drug use or did the drug use cause the depression?

Also i think this would be better placed in the dark side...

 

[yucatanboy2]

He's 18, intelligent but has serious confidence issues which I think is what brought on this episode in the first place....

Please someone help me...

Alone, depressed and at the end of my tether with worry...

Hang in there, I'm sorry to hear this. How was the suicide attempt done? I would say he needs professional help (not a loony bin, but at least serious counseling). Look into local professionals/places, or people at the university to talk to him (not condescending to him, he feels like he's an adult, and would be frustrated by being talked down to). Yes he's an adult, but he's a young adult, and needs guidance and friends.

In the mean time, take him out somewhere (to get food, fresh air, something to drink, etc), and see if you can talk about other aspects of his life (not drugs, not classes, what about his friends at uni? Is he dating?). Tell and show him you love him and care about him no matter what happens (perhaps he's scared of failing at uni and feels trapped). If he really wants to go back to uni and won't go to counseling, tell him you want to keep in touch, that you love him, and want him to succeed. Remind him that 18 might feel like the end of the world, but time continues and things will change, and his life has so much more fun and adventures left in it. There are dark times, but there will also be plenty of wonderful times too. See if he'll go to a counselor back at uni just to have someone to talk to.

Just my two cents, I can't even imagine what you are going through, although I had some dark times around that age, as did my sis, and we're both in our late 20's, early 30's and successful, even though we had crazy rough times in college.

Post an update please, and also, start a similar post in "The Dark Side" forum, and ask about resources there, they should be able to help.

 

[Chemical Wizard]

I would talk with your kid about starting up some kind of therapy where he can talk about those dark feelings, and the feelings that made him want to do drugs in the first place. It is my opinion that people who have problems with drug addiction will struggle with it to varying degrees throughout their life for different reasons, and with different drugs. And now that you and your son recognize that he has a serious problem controlling his urge to take drugs, you should both try to explore that dark aspect and discover what the driving force behind it is that will cause him to want to take drugs. Know they demon, not conquer thy demon.

After abusing ecstasy like that, time WILL heal the damage that he caused himself, and the chemical imbalance will go away. But spiritually speaking, suicidal thoughts can be traumatic in and of themselves, and some serious soul searching should really be done so that your son can discover a little more about what it is that is inside of him that is causing him to want to want to abuse drugs.

I'm not accusing your son of being a drug addict at all; wanting to get high is a part of growing up we all go through to some degree....some of us here at bluelight seem to never grow out of that urge...but it can be a precarious balance between use and abuse, and sometimes we do just need family and friends to help us out and point out life's pitfalls before we step in them.......

 

[PippUK]

Perhaps some 5htp or tryptophan dietary supplements might help reestablish his serotonin deficit. Available from healthfood stores.

I am truly sorry to hear of the state that your son has found himself and wish him all the best in his recovery. He is lucky to have a father so supportive.

Peace - Pipp

 

[Kallisti]

So sorry to hear this has happened.........In my own experiences, I became somewhat unhinged myself when I was your son's age. My depression subsided after receiving psychiatric intervention and withdrawing from college for a semester. Then I started back taking classes part time, and worked my way back to full-time. Has your son shown feelings of anger, more than what would be considered 'normal' for his personality? I found starting college to be extremely overwhelming when I was young (combined with some other situations that I was dealing with) and felt very angry and depressed.

If his substance use is his way of coping with some other emotional issues, then he will risk damaging his ability to develop healthy coping mechanisms for dealing with the stresses of life. Drug use, beyond the truly recreational sort, pretty much halts a person's ability to create these healthy coping mechanisms and can create a situation where a person will have difficulties functioning in their life and being able to meet their responsibilities without serious emotional distress. That's why I think it is good advise for you to approach him about counseling, or seeing a doctor, or some kind of professional help where he can learn to cope with the stresses of university without drugs.

Is it possible for him to take 6 months or a year before going back to college without being penalized too badly academically? This really helped me when I was in my similar situation........now I have a bachelor's degree and two master's degrees and I really don't think I could have been successful academically if I hadn't taken that break from school to address my mental health concerns.

As one parent to another, I know it is a scary thing to have to go through.......to know your child is hurting and not know what to do to help. To watch them start to go down a wrong path and/or risk their life. It sounds like you really care and are a good parent........you are probably your child's best hope at overcoming these obstacles. Just try to take care of your own needs too! I hope things work out for your family. Sorry for such a long post, I hope it helps a little.

 

[CRICKETBEE]

i know from personal experince that mdma related depression does go away and some of the things that helped me were eating healthy, getting lots of rest, and support from my friends (in your case, family)

it is a destructive cycle and one that is easy to get into as taking mdma more than infrequently (no more than once a month at the MOST) can easily get you into a cycle of depression without the drug.

THE FIRST THING you might want to do is BUY jullie hollands excellent book on MDMA...just look up Julie Holland and MDMA. (its called ECSTASY, the COMPLETE GUIDE...this is a good book with info on the dangers and the long term risks, etc. it is written in a very clear and useful way, edited by a Doctor. There is information on all kinds of things that may be helpful in helping your son.

By the way. I would avoid 5-htp and instead go for L-tryptophan (which can also help your son sleep) you can find it at GNC or other big vitamin stores.


In one of the chapters in that book there is a chapter from DANCE SAFE where they talk about how often kids who get into a negative cycle with MDMA are in need of SSRI's and how 1. SSRI's can keep MDMA from working anymore, and 2. many of those people dont miss MDMA once they are on SSRI's/

You sound like a concerned parent who is trying to educate herself...which is good.
MDMA is a wonderful substance but is easy to use in destructive ways so you might really want to talk openly with your son about what it was he enjoyed about it, and what void it was filling in his life, etc.


I only wish my parents had ever shown such concern.


good luck and please check out the JULIE HOLLAND BOOK...it has a TON of info.


you can also check out the previously mentioned DANCE SAFE website which has NON-SENSATIONALIZED info on the risks and benefits of these drugs.


thanks

 

[rickolasnice]

The only thing i can help you out on is your knowledge of how these drugs work. You're kinda right, in that with MDMA the initial high will not return, but you still do get an affect. With the others, i'm pretty sure they have more of a dopamine rush side to them, meaning, again although the initial high will change, you can still carry on getting high for days

Lack of sleep and poor nutrition will no doubt have played a part in the way he feels, give him some good decent food and let him rest. Exercise works wonders for confidence and general mental health, advise him to take a run every couple of days or whatever.

I can't speak for any others but mephedrone is VERY addictive.. to be honest he's probably not ready to go back to uni (even if he's not addicted) where these drugs are widely available and probably used willy nillyly.

If he goes to the doctors they'll throw him on SSRI's, which MAY be what he needs.. Although i'd recommend St John Wort.

I'd also recommend phenibut. Look it up. Although, if he is unable to take a couple days break from it every week, and takes over the recommended dosage (altough, tbh.. i take just over the recommended dose but have no problems taking a couple days break) it could lead to problems. It's AMAZING for dealing with social anxiety and low mood.. I've actually stopped SSRI's, been going to work every day (which i cldnt do before) and broke a very long term habbit of drinking multiple times a week (yes, during the week and sometimes before work, too) and taking drugs (mephedrone / speed / anything tbh) every weekend with no side effects..

 

[any major dude]

^ well intentioned but I doubt more drugs are the answer to this problem.

I would venture a guess that the drug abuse stems from another problem that needs to be treated. Though its possible it was just an extended period of youthful indiscretion as well.

To really recover from a bender like that one would need about a week at least. I'd wager that most symptoms should be alleviated by then if he continues to abstain from monamine releasers. Perhaps a different school where he doesn't know the crowd that are into these substances is a possiblity, though it seems they're pretty ubiquitous throughout the U.K. these days.

I am sorry for your trouble and hope your son gets better.

 

[Solipsis]

It depends on if his depressed feelings now are caused by chemical imbalance, so just the drugs... Or if there is an underlying psychological issue.
Then there is also addiction to consider.

Generally speaking I would say that stimulant overuse can make you feel like you were never born but it should pass if use is abstained and healthy patterns of normal day behavior are re-established.
If one would fall into this pit over and over again the whole thing can be like a downwards spiral which can result in increasingly nasty things happening.

Very clear changes and ways of regulating his behavior and habits are probably what is best for him, but underlying reasons to fall into these habits should also be looked after.
I would approach with love and forgiveness but not acceptance in the way of trusting that everything will be better even if nothing changes. Changes don't happen by themselves.

Anyway this does not belong in PD. Do you agree to have this moved to
- basic drug discussion
- the dark side

Maybe anyone can suggest another forum that would fit but it's not like I definitely want this thread moved.

Anyway I wish you all the best with this.

 

[Roger&Me]

I rarely say this, ever.

But IMO your son should be put on a low dose of an SSRI, if he doesn't start recovering soon. This is a textbook example of an instance where an SSRI might actually help more than it hurts.

Its important that you don't allow him to stay medicated indefinitely, though. Medication is just a short term band-aid that can stop the bleeding while you work to correct the source of the problem.

Don't pathologize him, just support him and be there for him lovingly and non-judgmentally. He's experiencing normal human emotions that have been scaled in their intensity due to stimulant overuse; he'll be back to normal soon, and everything will be okay. In the meantime, get him in to see a psychiatrist that isn't a quack; which is easier said than done, as many psychiatrists are the quackiest of quacks. But good ones do exist, and they're out there if you look.

Best of luck to you, and I hope that everything works out with you and your son.

 

[Solipsis]

Good words, Roger.

 

[Xorkoth]

Sorry to hear about this.

I believe that there is something underlying this behavior, so cause such excessive use of these drugs and then especially the suicide attempt. I think your son needs to speak with someone who can help him figure out those issues and correct them. And it goes without saying he needs to stay away from drugs. There is nothing inherently wrong with drug use... when used responsibly they can even be beneficial to your psyche (at least MDMA/Ecstacy and psychedelics can), but overusing them crosses into abuse, and it sounds like your son was pretty heavily abusing. And that is always going to be very harmful, at least short-term.

Stimulants are some of the worst drugs to abuse because they deplete your serotonin and dopamine. This can take a while for your brain to recharge. But it definitely will. With time, he'll be back to feeling good. Just as long as he can take care of himself during the recovery time.

Best of luck...

 

[f1ct]

Your son absolutely needs professional help.

Excessive drug abuse leading up to a suicide attempt is not good, and is almost certainly not something you should attempt to deal with alone.

Seriously, seek professional help as soon as possible. You do not want him to go back to university and potentially make another suicide attempt, which could be successful.

This is not something to fuck around about.

 

[raver2008]

Cant say for sure that it will work, but im sure it will help at least a bit. He should start taking 5htp everyday a few times a day for the next few weeks. Alot of e users do it after getting high because it helps replace the seratonin in your brain. If nothing else it should at least speed up recovory

 

[f1ct]

Look: You don't know if rapidly escalating drug abuse is a cause of suicidal behavior or a symptom of suicidal behavior. Going on bluelight to seek advice on this matter is seriously misguided. No one here is going to be able to assist you.

Seek professional help. Now.

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

I will keep you and your family in my thoughts, that is really rough..... I have felt like ending it all after heavy usage of mdma and withdrawling off of heroin as well..... meph seems to be more dangerous than people realize, everyday it seems that suicide attempts and wild inciidents are taking place in direct association with meph... maybe its just hitting the media hard and covering up other drug related stories but I hear about it ALL the time.

Like f1 said, even if he stops using the drugs he needs to speak with a professional immediately. Hopefully you have insurance and almost all of it will be covered, otherwise seek help from a state program depending on what state you are in .... you can receive free mental care to an extent....

As far as the ecstasy goes, after 2 years of heavy use it took me 6 months to go back to feeling "normal". TBH I never think my brain has recovered completely from MDMA... I still love the drug but only use it once every 2 years or so now.... and its not the same I wish I wouldnt have ruined the magic of it, and abused it like I did..... (And I didn't even get real bad... im talking twice a week 3 pills each use on average....)

 

[Chemical Wizard]

I rarely say this, ever.

But IMO your son should be put on a low dose of an SSRI, if he doesn't start recovering soon. This is a textbook example of an instance where an SSRI might actually help more than it hurts.

I agree, I remember hearing that for people who have mild or moderate depression, SSRI's were no better than placebos at combating depression, but it is in cases of severe depression that they are able to make a difference. So in your sons case were there is a drug induced chemical imbalance, other drugs that increase serotonin levels could provide some relief.

 

[Delsyd]

I dont think the suicide attempt was caused by the drug abuse.
It sounds like his issues run deeper.

Like others have said, professional attention is what he needs.

Im Sorry to hear about your situation. It must be really difficult to deal with.