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Opioids My doc referred me to rehab! Do i really need it?

badkitty1990

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Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
2
I need advice. My family doc referred me to pain center 2 yrs ago. Had to wait a yr to get in! This is Montreal so thats what free medicare gets you! I suffer from chronic pain due to compressed nerves in my spine from a car accident 25 yrs ago. Pain doc tried me on several meds ranging from tramadol to methadone + finally a combo of oxycodone 10 mgs 3 x a day + supeudol 10 mgs 4 x a day worked. But with time my tolerance has built up + instead of my family doc increasing my dose slightly she has referred me to rehab cause she says that increasing my dose will put me into respiratory failure!! From what i can tell i'm on a pretty low dose + not in any danger of getting hurt. The pain center has discharged me + expects my family doc to adjust my meds as needed but she's too afraid or uneducated in the area of opioids. What should i do??
 
I don't know about in Canada, but in the US most treatment centers will do assessments for free. Generally they take a detailed history and based on the factors they assess, determine what - if any - level of care would be appropriate going from 'early intervention' (generally brief classes for people who are using drugs and at risk for addiction but their use isn't causing problems that warrant traditional treatment), outpatient, intensive-outpatient (sometimes combined with Partial Hospitalization) and inpatient treatment. This link is a lot of information (and is from the American Society of Addiction Medicine but I guarantee that if they don't use the exact same system, it's nearly identical) and will give you an idea of what they are assessing for and what criteria they use to place patients in the various levels.

I have no idea if you are strictly using your opioids therapeutically; oftentimes pain patients (especially with a history of substance abuse) rationalize their use truly believing it's completely to treat pain (even when exceeding their prescribed doses, supplementing their scripts from outside sources or using other routes of administration). Even if you are strictly using your medicine appropriately, almost everyone with chronic pain experiences psychological distress that near-inevitably will exacerbate the physical symptoms and most benefit from counseling to help deal with the psychological issues that derive-from or preceded the physical problems.

It's also essential that chronic pain is treated from every angle it can be because no singe treatment modality is THAT effective alone so the best (and what should be the ONLY) method to treat chronic pain is to attack it from every angle. Opioids are far more effective in treating pain when medications that attack it from other angles are introduced such as anticonvulsants for nerve pain, NSAIDS for inflammation, muscle relaxants, antidepressants such as SNRI's and tricyclics can address not only some of the resulting mental distress but the physical pain, local anesthetic patches and others.

Aside from medication, pain should be treated non-pharmacology with a variety of treatments (oftentimes dependent on the specific condition) such as transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS), steroid injections, nerve blocks, radiofrequency ablation, acupuncture, massage/physical therapy, neuro- or biofeedback, counseling, guided meditation/relaxation and many other options. The best outcomes are seen when pain patients try as many treatments as they can to find a regimen that maximizes effectiveness and minimizes side effects.

Oftentimes when doctors get patients that are resistant to non-opioid approaches, they tend to view them much more suspiciously. Drug-seekers often give excuses for why all other medications aren't suitable and push to be prescribed opioids. Some legitimate patients are either skeptical that other treatment options would be effective because of how much pain they are in or past experiences leading them to believe that other options won't be sufficient but to doctors it's nearly impossible to distinguish this from drug-seeking behavior so to build trust with your doctor, it's essential that you are open to treatment suggestions beyond just opioids and even better if YOU bring up with the doctor other treatment options to pursue (to supplement, not replace the opioids).

I have chronic pain from nerve damage in my left leg and had very similar experiences with doctors and I have training and education in addiction counseling as well. If you have any question or would like to speak privately about anything, please feel free to send me a message.
 
OP, you are on a very conservative dose of narcotics..especially since you are not a young kid...accident history 25 years ago! Not only have I been a nurse for 20 years (in many different areas of care but my specialty is mental health) but I have also been a chronic pain patient for many years.

I can appreciate what the above poster is saying but I think that is a little overboard based on the info you supplied and my personal knowledge of pain mgmnt. I am also in the US so I cannot answer questions specific to countries outside of the US.

How long have you been on the dose that you are on now? (By the way increasing your dose would NOT xcause respiratory failure..it drives me nuts when docs lie to patients to avoid med changes..and surely your doc actually knows that is not true). Why did the pain clinic discharge you?
Have you had any issues with your meds that would cause the doc to refer you, ie. Running out early, taking more than you should, failed drug tests, anything?
Are you doing any other treatments besides narcotics? Physical therapy? TENS unit?
Anything besides pain meds?
Do you take them like you are supposed to?

Anyways a little more info would be helpful. I think it would be ridiculous to go to rehab for 30mg a day of oxy...if you do need to come off of them for some reason it wouldn't be extremely difficult physically. I just don't understand why they would refer you to rehab if you asked about getting a little more...at worse I would think they would just say no. Anyways, if you would like to share more info maybe we could give a little more advice.
 
You should switch doctors to someone who actually knows what they are doing. Your doctor does not seem qualified to treat pain. I have heard this before and it pisses me off enormously, like rehab would help someone who suffers from a legitimate painful condition. What are they going to do for you in rehab, talk your pain away? No, switch doctors and avoid any unnecessary suffering I say. Thankfully (or not) my pain does not respond well at all to opiates so at least I don't have to get labeled as a drug seeker. Appearently people don't come into doctor's offices ranting about that they need prescriptions for various anti-epileptic drugs that are used to treat neuropathic pain.

TL DR: Your doctor is an idiot who does not know what the hell he is talking about. Switch. I've had far too many of these doctors and there is nothing else to do but SWITCH. They can not be reasoned with.
 
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You should switch doctors to someone who actually knows what they are doing. Your doctor does not seem qualified to treat pain. I have heard this before and it pisses me off enormously, like rehab would help someone who suffers from a legitimate painful condition. What are they going to do for you in rehab, talk your pain away? No, switch doctors and avoid any unnecessary suffering I say. Thankfully (or not) my pain does not respond well at all to opiates so at least I don't have to get labeled as a drug seeker. Appearently people don't come into doctor's offices ranting about that they need prescriptions for various anti-epileptic drugs that are used to treat neuropathic pain.

TL DR: Your doctor is an idiot who does not know what the hell he is talking about. Switch. I've had far too many of these doctors and there is nothing else to do but SWITCH. They can not be reasoned with.

Agreed!

This is also something that pisses me off enormously!

I just wondered if there was anymore to the story since she was discharged by her PM clinic. But yes, all too frequently the doctors just don't know what the hell they are talking about, or, just as bad, they just don't want to deal with it.
 
I can appreciate what the above poster is saying but I think that is a little overboard based on the info you supplied and my personal knowledge of pain mgmnt.

What do you find to be overboard? I'm not trying to be confrontational or say you're wrong, I'm just curious what specifically you feel that way about. I'd also like to convey a tremendous amount of respect that you've been a nurse for 20 years; it can be such a taxing job and often lacks the full compensation it deserves. To do that with chronic pain is really impressive. Also, very good questions. Without insight into those issues, it's hard to give suggestions/advice of much value.

I probably wasn't very clear about some things (despite how verbose I was!). If the patient isn't abusing their medications, doesn't have a history of substance abuse and/or mental health problems, etc. then formal assessment with an addiction treatment center really isn't warranted. I really just wanted to make the point that seeking advice from people who aren't trained AND only have a tiny window into the situation really can't replace formal evaluation.

Regarding the pain treatment, I wasn't trying to say that every pain patient should pursue EVERY option listed. Some patients are lucky and find relief relatively quickly and easily while others have to miserably go through one ineffective treatment after another while their doctors stubbornly and inhumanely refuse to prescribe opioids. My main point was just that pain is treated more effectively from multiple angles and if patients are resistant to that, it can give doctors the impression they are drug-seeking.

I certainly agree with Toz and Missmeyet? that based on the information you gave, OP that it sounds like your doctor is either an idiot and you should switch or you aren't giving us the full picture of the situation.
 
Some doctors have a bad attitude, especially to people they suspect of being "drug seekers". For example, as my past addiction is on record, my doctor claimed that slightly increasing my mirtazipine dose could be toxic to my liver, when I've heard of people on far higher doses; it was an outright lie (besides, my liver function test came back and it's in perfectly healthy condition.)

Suggesting rehab is a very drastic step; many of those places are very tough, and treatment can last up to six months. I would 100% look for a second opinion on this. (There are good doctors out there, after all).
 
What do you find to be overboard? I'm not trying to be confrontational or say you're wrong, I'm just curious what specifically you feel that way about. I'd also like to convey a tremendous amount of respect that you've been a nurse for 20 years; it can be such a taxing job and often lacks the full compensation it deserves. To do that with chronic pain is really impressive. Also, very good questions. Without insight into those issues, it's hard to give suggestions/advice of much value.

I probably wasn't very clear about some things (despite how verbose I was!). If the patient isn't abusing their medications, doesn't have a history of substance abuse and/or mental health problems, etc. then formal assessment with an addiction treatment center really isn't warranted. I really just wanted to make the point that seeking advice from people who aren't trained AND only have a tiny window into the situation really can't replace formal evaluation.

Regarding the pain treatment, I wasn't trying to say that every pain patient should pursue EVERY option listed. Some patients are lucky and find relief relatively quickly and easily while others have to miserably go through one ineffective treatment after another while their doctors stubbornly and inhumanely refuse to prescribe opioids. My main point was just that pain is treated more effectively from multiple angles and if patients are resistant to that, it can give doctors the impression they are drug-seeking.

I certainly agree with Toz and Missmeyet? that based on the information you gave, OP that it sounds like your doctor is either an idiot and you should switch or you aren't giving us the full picture of the situation.

I apologize dear...overboard is incorrect and I will change my wording. After this post I understand a little better and I actually agree with almost everything you said. I guess with the first post I kind of misunderstood and it twinges a little nerve (the same way some doctors do) because I incorrectly assumed that you were saying something along the lines of maybe you do need to come off of the pain meds and just follow other avenues (to paraphrase). I have jumped through every hoop that has been asked of me by various doctors , somethings work, some do not and some are just a total joke but in the end I still need pain meds to function at the level that I feel I am contributing to society, raising and spending lots of quality time with my children (cause I feel I only get one chance or go around with them and before you know it that time will be in the past...can't afford to mess arounf for months and years at a time in complete misery and unable to function). It just kills me when a doc just refuses to believe that sometimes, for some, the ultimate answer eventually ends up being long term pain meds! So I apologize again. On the other hand, I don't have a lot of patience for pain patients who ruin it for everyone else! (I have nothing against people using drugs and I know that many people who buy RX meds on the streets illegally do it because they need it..at the same time if you use for fun..be smart and stop giving the rest of us a bad name and making it so hard for us to get our meds!)
 
I'll add one more thing: over here, we have to virtually beg for in-patient rehab; funding is very tight, and its only the people who desperately need it are allocated spaces, which are rare as hell.

Of the people who get beds, every one of them both need it and want it. If you honestly don't think you need inpatient rehab, then there's a good chance you wouldn't gain much from the process. I think suggesting the idea in the first place was pretty drastic on the part of your doctor imho. After all, rehab is really for addicts, not pain patients on legit prescriptions; there's actualy a big psychological difference between the two..

BTW was your doctor referring to an in-patient treatment programme, or a detox?
 
idonno about montreal but in toronto you could go to a methadone clinic with no waiting lists. theyll take you right away and there was lots of ppl at mine when i used to go that went there for pain because it was easier to get a proper amount of painkilling with the methadone. my doc tried to raise my dose constantly its just really inconvenient to go in everyday for your dose but if youre there long enough and piss clean you get your take homes eventually.
its always a good last resort if the doctors wont give you sufficient opiates.
 
It's just like that in the UK, only it's a 2 week wait to get a 'script. Replacement therapy is big here; it's a hell of a lot cheaper than other types of treatment for addiction. ^do you have to pay for your meds in Canada?
 
Switch docs, that's not how tolerance works for opiates
People with insane tolerances can do grams of heroin a day without going into respiratory failure
 
This is a first one on me: I've never in my life heard of a doctor referring a legitimate pain patient for rehab...there's a huge difference between dependence and addiction, after all. (Statistically, patients prescribed opiates for pain have a lower risk of forming a psychological dependence than the recreational user).

The whole situation seems odd to me.
 
I need advice. My family doc referred me to pain center 2 yrs ago. Had to wait a yr to get in! This is Montreal so thats what free medicare gets you! I suffer from chronic pain due to compressed nerves in my spine from a car accident 25 yrs ago. Pain doc tried me on several meds ranging from tramadol to methadone + finally a combo of oxycodone 10 mgs 3 x a day + supeudol 10 mgs 4 x a day worked. But with time my tolerance has built up + instead of my family doc increasing my dose slightly she has referred me to rehab cause she says that increasing my dose will put me into respiratory failure!! From what i can tell i'm on a pretty low dose + not in any danger of getting hurt. The pain center has discharged me + expects my family doc to adjust my meds as needed but she's too afraid or uneducated in the area of opioids. What should i do??

It is funny how the US wants this more than anything. We better get used to waiting.
 
respiratory failure... i wonder if docs say stupid shit like this cuz they just dont want to give you more, or if they really are that goddamn dumb, either way, docs like this are everywhere

if people had any idea how stupid docs were when it comes to drugs, they would feel a lot more nervous going into a docs office

i have yet to meet a doctor that knows half as much as i do about most psychotropic pharms
 
My doctor told me taking an extra 10 mg of mirtazipine (I'm on 15) would be toxic to my liver, and possibly fatal; she lied to my face, in other words.

You can get some arrogant, superior, and high-handed assholes with MD's, that's for sure. Having any type of past substance dependency issues on your file can really go against you regarding fair and unbiased treatment IME.
 
Exactly! I spent half an hour trying to explain the drugs I take to my "addiction specialist" doctor-she didn't have a fucking clue what I talking about; I literally had to google some of them on my phone for her....so frustrating.
 
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