Opioids Morphine injection question

[Akane]

Might be a tad long so if you are the type who doesn't like long posts don't read .

I have pharmaceutical morphine sulfate ampoules. 1ml contains 10mg. They are suitable for subcutaneous, intramuscular and intravenous usage.
I have 0 experience with IVing so I chose to inject myself subcutaneously as it is really easy to do.
I have done it a few times now. I don't do it everyday and prefer to take my other opioids orally really. The injections are when I am home alone and can do everything without rushing and so on.
I have had no issues (a couple of bruises but I will explain why later) and have been using clean sterile needles and I always swab with alcohol and even wash the area with soap and water prior to injecting anything.
I already had experience doing subcutaneous injections as I injected my parents with insulin. It is a piece of cake.

My first question is this: is the bioavailability subcutaneously 100% or is it less? I ask because on some online literature it says it's much less than 100% but it seems strange that it would be just a bit better than oral administration since it completely bypasses the liver.

I have attempted twice to get into a vein to experience the famous rush. I have visible veins all over my arms but my issue was that I can't seem to pull up the plunger to register easily as the plunger is all the way back after drawing out the morphine from its ampoule. It just isn't easy to do that without risking dropping the syringe.
I am using 1ml syringes with the 30 gauge needles, so they just about are big enough for all the medication.
This caused me to miss and so I just went subcutaneously. No problems.
The second time I tried was a couple of day ago or so. I missed again. I tried to register and nothing came up the syringe but when I pulled out the needle, after what turned into a subcutaneous injection, I saw a little dark red blood oozing out on the skin, so I am not sure I wasn't in the vein.
I also felt a little woozy unlike with the other subcutaneous injections, so maybe that was a sort of rush? Not sure. I only do 10mg when I inject and that is far from covering my tolerance. So this is how I got my two bruises. No issues as everything was sterile.
So, how do you comfortably register in the vein when the plunger is all the way back? I give up trying because I just risk dropping the syringe so I inject and am done with it and it becomes a subcutaneous injection.
I guess my question is more like: how do you learn to do IV by yourself? I obviously don't wanna ruin my veins trying. I cannot ask anyone to help me. I don't know anyone who can do that for me. I have watched videos. It seems easy when you watch but it's not really when you get to it. Do I need bigger syringes?

If subcutaneous bioavailability is 100% or close then I can make do with that as I am not interested in the rush that much and more interested in getting the most out of the ampoules. Thanks for any replies.

 

[Zephyn]

I got a 10mg morphine ampule while traveling once, I tried to IV it, but couldn't figure out how (still can't shoot myself up). The entire 10mg IM seemed almost as weak as placebo

 

[Phoenix_03]

Might be a tad long so if you are the type who doesn't like long posts don't read .

I have pharmaceutical morphine sulfate ampoules. 1ml contains 10mg. They are suitable for subcutaneous, intramuscular and intravenous usage.
I have 0 experience with IVing so I chose to inject myself subcutaneously as it is really easy to do.
I have done it a few times now. I don't do it everyday and prefer to take my other opioids orally really. The injections are when I am home alone and can do everything without rushing and so on.
I have had no issues (a couple of bruises but I will explain why later) and have been using clean sterile needles and I always swab with alcohol and even wash the area with soap and water prior to injecting anything.
I already had experience doing subcutaneous injections as I injected my parents with insulin. It is a piece of cake.

My first question is this: is the bioavailability subcutaneously 100% or is it less? I ask because on some online literature it says it's much less than 100% but it seems strange that it would be just a bit better than oral administration since it completely bypasses the liver.

I have attempted twice to get into a vein to experience the famous rush. I have visible veins all over my arms but my issue was that I can't seem to pull up the plunger to register easily as the plunger is all the way back after drawing out the morphine from its ampoule. It just isn't easy to do that without risking dropping the syringe.
I am using 1ml syringes with the 30 gauge needles, so they just about are big enough for all the medication.
This caused me to miss and so I just went subcutaneously. No problems.
The second time I tried was a couple of day ago or so. I missed again. I tried to register and nothing came up the syringe but when I pulled out the needle, after what turned into a subcutaneous injection, I saw a little dark red blood oozing on the skin, so I am not sure I wasn't in the vein.
I also felt a little woozy unlike with the other subcutaneous injections, so maybe that was a sort of rush? Not sure. I only do 10mg when I inject and that is far from covering my tolerance. So this is how I got my two bruises. No issues as everything was sterile.
So, how do you comfortably register in the vein when the plunger is all the way back? I give up trying because I just risk dropping the syringe so I inject and am done with it and it becomes a subcutaneous injection.
I guess my question is more like: how do you learn to do IV by yourself? I obviously don't wanna ruin my veins trying. I cannot ask anyone to help me. I don't know anyone who can do that for me. I have watched videos. It seems easy when you watch but it's not really when you get to it. Do I need bigger syringes?

If subcutaneous bioavailability is 100% or close then I can make do with that as I am not interested in the rush that much and more interested in getting the most out of the ampoules. Thanks for any replies.

After pulling the fluid into the syringe, there should be space between where the fluid stops and the end of the syringe. Before injecting, you push the plunger just far enough to eliminate the space of air. Then you find a vein, insert needle and pull back slightly to see if you hit the vein, indicated by the appearance of blood. If all went well, after you see the blood you slowly push the plunger down all the way. The only way your plunger would be all the way pulled out is if you didn’t eliminate the air pocket, or your syringe is completely full of fluid.

 

[Akane]

After pulling the fluid into the syringe, there should be space between where the fluid stops and the end of the syringe. Before injecting, you push the plunger just far enough to eliminate the space of air. Then you find a vein, insert needle and pull back slightly to see if you hit the vein, indicated by the appearance of blood. If all went well, after you see the blood you slowly push the plunger down all the way. The only way your plunger would be all the way pulled out is if you didn’t eliminate the air pocket, or your syringe is completely full of fluid.

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I do get all the air out before injecting and since I draw out 1ml and the syringe holds 1ml it is kind of full. My issue is more I cannot grab the plunger easily to pull back. I am just clumsy maybe. I don't know. How do you master that movement without fucking up and dropping everything? Especially since the plunger is so far back so my fingers cannot easily hold onto the syringe well.
I have read countless posts on IVing and watched phlebotomy online courses so I know the basics. It's putting theory into practice that is a problem for me. I hope I have explained the issue more clearly!

@Zephyn
What is your tolerance though? 10mg isn't that much even with 100% bioavailability. I cannot feel 10mg much either so I take my oral stuff too with the injection. If I knew for sure all injections routes have 100% bioavailability I would inject more. I just don't wanna waste my precious ampoules. I get hives where I inject and then the area goes back to normal after a while. It is a histamine reaction so it is doing something for sure.

 

[SKL]

30 gauge is too small, that's probably your issue. Especially for beginners you'll want a larger needle, makes it easier to register. Other than that looks like you are looking in the right places to learn how to inject. Good thing you are using fresh needles and rubbing down with alcohol etc.

Now I hope I don't need to explain why starting to shoot drugs is not a good idea. Just putting that out there.

And pretty soon 10mg won't be enough. It probably is if you're opiate naïve but with tolerance you won't have a prayer of getting a rush with it. The woozy feeling you described, if it happened immediately after injecting, is probably the "rush" of a partial dose of the 10mg. You can get larger syringes of course but injecting large amounts this way rapidly becomes very clumsy.

 

[Zephyn]

30 gauge is too small, that's probably your issue. Especially for beginners you'll want a larger needle, makes it easier to register. Other than that looks like you are looking in the right places to learn how to inject. Good thing you are using fresh needles and rubbing down with alcohol etc.

Now I hope I don't need to explain why starting to shoot drugs is not a good idea. Just putting that out there.

And pretty soon 10mg won't be enough. It probably is if you're opiate naïve but with tolerance you won't have a prayer of getting a rush with it. The woozy feeling you described, if it happened immediately after injecting, is probably the "rush" of a partial dose of the 10mg. You can get larger syringes of course but injecting large amounts this way rapidly becomes very clumsy.

Really, id imagined smaller would be easier to hit a larger target. Why would a larger needle be easier? Longer, maybe, but larger?

 

[SKL]

Really, id imagined smaller would be easier to hit a larger target. Why would a larger needle be easier? Longer, maybe, but larger?

You'll want a ½in needle and a 27-28 gauge. As for why it's easier to register veins, just think of sucking soda through a large versus a small straw.

 

[JessFR]

Might be a tad long so if you are the type who doesn't like long posts don't read .

I have pharmaceutical morphine sulfate ampoules. 1ml contains 10mg. They are suitable for subcutaneous, intramuscular and intravenous usage.
I have 0 experience with IVing so I chose to inject myself subcutaneously as it is really easy to do.
I have done it a few times now. I don't do it everyday and prefer to take my other opioids orally really. The injections are when I am home alone and can do everything without rushing and so on.
I have had no issues (a couple of bruises but I will explain why later) and have been using clean sterile needles and I always swab with alcohol and even wash the area with soap and water prior to injecting anything.
I already had experience doing subcutaneous injections as I injected my parents with insulin. It is a piece of cake.

My first question is this: is the bioavailability subcutaneously 100% or is it less? I ask because on some online literature it says it's much less than 100% but it seems strange that it would be just a bit better than oral administration since it completely bypasses the liver.

I have attempted twice to get into a vein to experience the famous rush. I have visible veins all over my arms but my issue was that I can't seem to pull up the plunger to register easily as the plunger is all the way back after drawing out the morphine from its ampoule. It just isn't easy to do that without risking dropping the syringe.
I am using 1ml syringes with the 30 gauge needles, so they just about are big enough for all the medication.
This caused me to miss and so I just went subcutaneously. No problems.
The second time I tried was a couple of day ago or so. I missed again. I tried to register and nothing came up the syringe but when I pulled out the needle, after what turned into a subcutaneous injection, I saw a little dark red blood oozing out on the skin, so I am not sure I wasn't in the vein.
I also felt a little woozy unlike with the other subcutaneous injections, so maybe that was a sort of rush? Not sure. I only do 10mg when I inject and that is far from covering my tolerance. So this is how I got my two bruises. No issues as everything was sterile.
So, how do you comfortably register in the vein when the plunger is all the way back? I give up trying because I just risk dropping the syringe so I inject and am done with it and it becomes a subcutaneous injection.
I guess my question is more like: how do you learn to do IV by yourself? I obviously don't wanna ruin my veins trying. I cannot ask anyone to help me. I don't know anyone who can do that for me. I have watched videos. It seems easy when you watch but it's not really when you get to it. Do I need bigger syringes?

If subcutaneous bioavailability is 100% or close then I can make do with that as I am not interested in the rush that much and more interested in getting the most out of the ampoules. Thanks for any replies.

Ok, I don't know morphines bioavailability for sure, I'd just be giving the same internet research back to you by trying to answer it. But liver first pass doesn't always do very much.

You need a syringe where you can pull back, whiiich is a little bit problematic. The easiest way if you can would be to just use a bit less than 1ml and keep using a 1ml syringe. You can use 3ml syringes and some people do, but I've always found them a little harder to use. The plunger is harder to depress and that makes it more difficult to operate one handed. That's a big reason why nearly everyone uses 1ml insulin syringes. I suspect you can't realistically use less without wasting morphine though, since ampoules can't be resealed and even if they could it may not have a preservative in it anyway since it's not designed for multi-dosing.

As SKL said I think you should also try a larger needle, probably a 27g or at least a 29. A larger syringe in my experience will make it easier to get ready flashback. You also want to try and feel your veins on top of just seeing them.

The second time I tried was a couple of day ago or so. I missed again. I tried to register and nothing came up the syringe but when I pulled out the needle, after what turned into a subcutaneous injection, I saw a little dark red blood oozing out on the skin, so I am not sure I wasn't in the vein.

You probably weren't in the vein. You'd have felt the difference. There's lots of reasons you may have saw blood, one being you may have actually pierced through both sides of the vein. There's other possibilities. But if you didn't feel a rush of the morphine washing over you, you weren't IV.

You said you felt woosy, but woosy isn't an opioid rush. What you likely experienced was what's called vasovagal syncope. Some people have a reflexive response to seeing blood. Their blood pressure suddenly drops, like their body think's they're losing way more blood than they really are. Making you feel faint, or in some cases, outright lose consciousness.

Bleeding that's not immediately stopped will leave a bruise, so that's not surprising. They'll go away in about a weekish?

To comfortably register the ideal you want is a 1ml with a 27-29g tip, different people have different preferences here.
EDIT: I entirely forgot to mention this intially but was just reminded in another thread... are you ensuring that the needle bevel is the right way? If you look close at the tip of the needle, it has a bevel, that's how it sharpens down to a point. You want to insert the needle with the bevel facing up, in other words, inserting the needle into your arm, the hole at the tip of the needle should be facing away from your arm. If it's the other away, not only will it do a little bit more damage, it'll be a lot more likely to end up pressing against the wall of the vein and being unable to draw.

If you're thinking of giving up IV, I would highly recommend you do. You're playing on dangerous ground with opioids as it is without mixing in IV too. I say this just out of concern for you.

You won't ruin your veins by missing some shots with pharmaceutical morphine. What causes veins to be lost is a combination of abuse, the drug itself, and time. You have the abuse, but not nearly as much as most people losing veins, and it's over a short period of time, doing pharmaceutical morphine, I don't see any permanent damage being done right now even if you fuck it up a bunch of times. And indeed many of us learned that way. Some of us had help but some of us just taught ourselves. Like any other skill, experience breeds proficiency. That said. if you end up a IV heroin addict that's a whole other story. It might seem like just small experimentation now, but that's how it starts. A thousand small little steps. I would suggest perhaps taking a look at the "should I try heroin?" thread (located https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/⫸should-i-try-heroin-⫷.704633/). Cause this kinda experimentation is how many of those people ended up there.

Take care man, if you want to continue doing this, that's ultimately up to you. And we're a harm reduction community, people here will generally offer you the best information they know, even if they're very worried where it may lead .

Really, id imagined smaller would be easier to hit a larger target. Why would a larger needle be easier? Longer, maybe, but larger?

Not because it's longer, it's literally because it's wider, I've had exactly the same experience. I mean you don't wanna go too big either, But really small ones like 30mg make it hard to get blood to flow very quickly and easy to get it clogged. It's much easier IME to get flashback with a 27g, which is what I use 90% of the time since it's what's given out at pharmacies and exchanges where I live, so I'm used to it. 30g's have been a pain the few times I've used em.

 

[Zephyn]

I

Ok, I don't know morphines bioavailability for sure, I'd just be giving the same internet research back to you by trying to answer it. But liver first pass doesn't always do very much.

You need a syringe where you can pull back, whiiich is a little bit problematic. The easiest way if you can would be to just use a bit less than 1ml and keep using a 1ml syringe. You can use 3ml syringes and some people do, but I've always found them a little harder to use. The plunger is harder to depress and that makes it more difficult to operate one handed. That's a big reason why nearly everyone uses 1ml insulin syringes. I suspect you can't realistically use less without wasting morphine though, since ampoules can't be resealed and even if they could it may not have a preservative in it anyway since it's not designed for multi-dosing.

As SKL said I think you should also try a larger needle, probably a 27g or at least a 29. A larger syringe in my experience will make it easier to get ready flashback. You also want to try and feel your veins on top of just seeing them.

The second time I tried was a couple of day ago or so. I missed again. I tried to register and nothing came up the syringe but when I pulled out the needle, after what turned into a subcutaneous injection, I saw a little dark red blood oozing out on the skin, so I am not sure I wasn't in the vein.

You probably weren't in the vein. You'd have felt the difference. There's lots of reasons you may have saw blood, one being you may have actually pierced through both sides of the vein. There's other possibilities. But if you didn't feel a rush of the morphine washing over you, you weren't IV.

You said you felt woosy, but woosy isn't an opioid rush. What you likely experienced was what's called vasovagal syncope. Some people have a reflexive response to seeing blood. Their blood pressure suddenly drops, like their body think's they're losing way more blood than they really are. Making you feel faint, or in some cases, outright lose consciousness.

Bleeding that's not immediately stopped will leave a bruise, so that's not surprising. They'll go away in about a weekish?

To comfortably register the ideal you want is a 1ml with a 27-29g tip, different people have different preferences here.
If you're thinking of giving up IV, I would highly recommend you do. You're playing on dangerous ground with opioids as it is without mixing in IV too. I say this just out of concern for you.

You won't ruin your veins by missing some shots with pharmaceutical morphine. What causes veins to be lost is a combination of abuse, the drug itself, and time. You have the abuse, but not nearly as much as most people losing veins, and it's over a short period of time, doing pharmaceutical morphine, I don't see any permanent damage being done right now even if you fuck it up a bunch of times. And indeed many of us learned that way. Some of us had help but some of us just taught ourselves. Like any other skill, experience breeds proficiency. That said. if you end up a IV heroin addict that's a whole other story. It might seem like just small experimentation now, but that's how it starts. A thousand small little steps. I would suggest perhaps taking a look at the "should I try heroin?" thread. Cause this kinda experimentation is how many of those people ended up there.

Take care man, if you want to continue doing this, that's ultimately up to you. And we're a harm reduction community, people here will generally offer you the best information they know, even if they're very worried where it may lead .



Not because it's longer, it's literally because it's wider, I've had exactly the same experience. I mean you don't wanna go too big either, But really small ones like 30mg make it hard to get blood to flow very quickly and easy to get it clogged. It's much easier IME to get flashback with a 27g, which is what I use 90% of the time since it's what's given out at pharmacies and exchanges where I live, so I'm used to it. 30g's have been a pain the few times I've used em.

Isn't the higher the number thr smaller the needle? (Less width)

 

[JessFR]

I
Isn't the higher the number thr smaller the needle? (Less width)

Yes that's correct. 30g is really small. 27g is noticeably bigger, but still small. 18g is the kinda needle you might see people do piercings with :D.

For some reason, I dunno why, when I've tried a 30g syringe, its been a pain. I've only tried it a couple times but it was enough for me not to try again. They're just so thin and flexible.

Strangely, just 1 gauge up to 29g is enough to make a world of improvement IME.