More on D-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide

[dorothyperkins]

that seems unlikely with the peppermint oil. also i dont see how it would work with acetaldehyde, surely you'd get the alpha-hydroxyethylamide (hemiaminal) while i assume LAH is the beta-hydroxy since the hemiaminal would be really unstable.

 

[Slay]

Sleepy Grass people! This grass usually comes infected with an ergot-like fungus....only this fungus ONLY produces lysergamides and none of the ergopeptide alkaloids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achnatherum_robustum -> this is cooler than bufo alvarius :D

 

[Acyl]

^ Meaning you don't have to reflux them together for hours to get the product. You just mix them together at normal physilogical temp, pH etc & voila, you get an equilibruim set up between it and lysergamide/acetaldehyde. If you can preceiptate it from soln while leaving the lysergamide in soln it could be almost a quantitative production

(the original info is in TIHKAL about p320 - the chapter on ergolines)

Thats a good idea.

The equilibrium would be very small though, so you would need something to help promote it.

Ive seen a bunch of wacky catalysts being used for similar procedures in the literature a while ago.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

With LAOH, the OH is in the middle of the N-ethyl....not on the end. It is d-lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide.

that seems unlikely with the peppermint oil. also i dont see how it would work with acetaldehyde, surely you'd get the alpha-hydroxyethylamide (hemiaminal) while i assume LAH is the beta-hydroxy since the hemiaminal would be really unstable.

 

[Acyl]

that seems unlikely with the peppermint oil. also i dont see how it would work with acetaldehyde, surely you'd get the alpha-hydroxyethylamide (hemiaminal) while i assume LAH is the beta-hydroxy since the hemiaminal would be really unstable.

Thats not what everyone is talking about?

That makes much, much more sense.

 

[dorothyperkins]

I forgot about this thread. According to wiki this stuff has a CAS number, and according to pubmed it has one bio study, one tox study and a vendor. I still can't believe it exists, except maybe as a solution in acetaldehyde!

Chemically i'm not sure it would be less stable than an aminal from an amine, the amide is a much worse nucleophile but also much less basic so less likely to leave as N+. So maybe once it's formed it is fairly stable, and maybe the lower avalability of the conjugated nitrogen lone pair explains why it doesn't dehydrate to the imine?

 

[edguh]

Bump.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/x254t55423942013/
“New aspects of submerged fermentation of Claviceps paspali”

Am I being too simplistic or might this entail nothing more than making a homemade wine using C papali as the yeast and stopping the fermentation after about 10 days?

Has science just rediscovered Kykeon and it just doesn’t know it yet?

 

[B9]

^ Lets hope so!

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Hmm, interesting. I firmly believe that hydroxyethyl-lysergamide and ergometrine are the true compounds responsible for the psychedelic effects of MG and HBWR seed extracts, rather than lysergamide proper. In my experience, a weakly acidic aqueous extract of fresh (this is very important, as mentioned) HBWR seeds, performed with citric acid and a little ascorbic acid (for antioxidant properties), gives a trip that is qualitatively very similar to LSD proper. This makes chemical sense, right?

 

[edguh]

Of course wine biosynthesizes acids – and aldehydes.

Ask yourself: What would ancient Greeks have done?

 

[theWorldWithin]

Bump.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/x254t55423942013/
“New aspects of submerged fermentation of Claviceps paspali”

Am I being too simplistic or might this entail nothing more than making a homemade wine using C papali as the yeast and stopping the fermentation after about 10 days?

Has science just rediscovered Kykeon and it just doesn’t know it yet?

Funny you mention that, I was thinking the same thing. In fact during my researching a paper on the elusinian mysteries I ran across a trip report from a woman who claims to have sampled such a brew prepared by her boyfriend. It seemed fairly credible but there is no way to tell really. It mentioned no details on the preperation of the wine but merely the effects. I wish I could find it again (not on erowid to my knowledge). It was reported to come on fast and strong with a lot of peripheral effects, some of them quite stimulatory if I remember correctly. She mentioned needed quite a bit of valium to calm down and make it through the trip.

Reguarding the greeks, yes kykeon was probably also served as a wine as in anchient greek culture there were many psychoactive wines with various effects besides your standard alcoholic only wine. These brews were a common trait of their culture at the time of the mysteries. Perhaps kykeon was prepared as a strong wine, then diluted heavily with wither untill it was inperceptable. At that point the barley and mind could be added and the drink would still retain a strong effect. This would be consistent with the trip report I mentioned above, the woman said she only drank a very small amount and was overwhelmed (purportedly a very experienced tripper).

 

[Riemann Zeta]

^^That woman was a friend of Picard, the infamous chemist who synthesized much of the world's LSD until 2000 (he is now serving a mandatory minimum life sentence without the possibility of parole or appeal--ironic that he would have done much less time for murder...fucking government shitbags). So, yeah, she was definitely an "experienced tripper." But, I don't know how much of her story I would actually believe (she wrote a book called 'Lysergic,' if I recall correctly).

And now back to our lysgeramide of the hour. I wonder what the stability of LAOH outside the context of biological organism is? I mean, in both plants and fungi, there are biosynthetic enzymes that catalyze its oxidation. Although, the degradation to unsubstituted lysergamide seems to be unfortunately spontaneous according to the article. The ephemeral nature of LAOH and/or ergometrine would certainly explain the unpredictable response of things such as HBWR seeds--some batches elicit responses amazingly close to LSD, others elicit a more torpid, side-effect laden trip.

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

This is very interesting and shows much promise.

I remember seeing a paper citing once the species of fungi which this lysergamide occurs naturally within, albeit in low concentrations. Does anyone know which species it is? I will look for this paper. Here is itshttp://www.shaman-australis.com/~benjamin-thomas/indole.html

The acetaldehyde fact is very intriguing.

 

[thisusername]

apparently adding peppermint oil to mg seeds gives you d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide. is this true? theres a couple threads over in the shroomery about it...

f&b tell me more about the submerged culture of the c paspali. did they really get something to grow acid?

I tried it. Mixed ten or so strong hb woodrose seeds with some red wine and peppermint oil. It works alright, a different kinda high than just eating the seeds.

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

^How well does it work? Is it more visual and stimulatory, similar to LSD?

 

[IGNVS]

yeh give us a TR

 

[thisusername]

I remember it was more visual, stimulating, euphoric and emotional than just eating the seeds is. It is distinctly different than any other psychedelic.

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

Interesting.

It seems that ergonovine may also be a key contributor to the psychdelic effects of such seeds.

 

[Ham-milton]

I remember it was more visual, stimulating, euphoric and emotional than just eating the seeds is. It is distinctly different than any other psychedelic.

Except all of this and more can be explained by dose and random coincidence.

 

[thisusername]

Except all of this and more can be explained by dose and random coincidence.

I actually did it everyday for a week at different doses, it had pretty consistent effects all the way through.