• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Moderation is the Norm, not the Exception

Some people are able to use responsibly, but that doesn't necessarily entail every drug.
 
Agreed! I cannot use cocaine or crack or any opioid responsibly. Other drugs however I can, though I rarely choose to use them because there are few opportunities that using them won't result in significant harm. So I base whether I will use a drug on the cost/benefit situation as best I can. And I try to learn from my mistakes. It's the best I or anyone can do. So I do :)
 
I just can't do opiates responsibly. Everything else is all right with me.

Though I am dependent on cannabinoids I don't find it to be a serious problem.

Part of "moderation" is that if you don't really like it enough to become addicted, you're likely not going to be the person who really wants to ever use it in the first place.
 
True, but that kind of thinking is not so helpful. Anyone can chance and stop using a substance, it is just a matter of other people showing them the way and giving them a helping hand.

I'm not suggesting that it is okay to use drugs you obviously have problems with. I am only interested in normalizing drug use and humanizing drug users.

We, the drug users, have been demonized for too long! It is time to step out of the shadows. It is time to come out of the closet.
 
I always used to regret whenever I talked about my drug use with a non-drug user (or, rather, a relative non-drug user)...the conversation just shuts down when certain drugs are brought up, especially heroin

I remember receiving a lecture about how dangerous using heroin was from a guy who literally averaged a 12 pack of beer a night. Pfft. The stigma that you immediately receive upon admitting that you're a drug user (ime) led me to stop trying to receive help at all from other people & just attempted to do it on my own...still a work in progress...I'm not defined by my former use, that I know for sure

Many times drug users can conceptualize drug abuse and use in intelligent ways, like in the OP (drug abuse and addiction being a complex problem w/o a one size fits all solution IMO), while non users often seem content to be ignorant
 
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I always used to regret whenever I talked about my drug use with a non-drug user (or, rather, a relative non-drug user)...the conversation just shuts down when certain drugs are brought up, especially heroin

I remember receiving a lecture about how dangerous using heroin was from a guy who literally averaged a 12 pack of beer a night. Pfft. The stigma that you immediately receive upon admitting that you're a drug user (ime) led me to stop trying to receive help at all from other people & just attempted to do it on my own...still a work in progress...I'm not defined by my former use, that I know for sure

Many times drug users can conceptualize drug abuse and use in intelligent ways, like in the OP (drug abuse and addiction being a complex problem w/o a one size fits all solution IMO), while non users often seem content to be ignorant

Heroin is really addictive though. I wouldn't try to downplay it, but I also wouldn't send someone on a huge guilt trip.
 
I always used to regret whenever I talked about my drug use with a non-drug user (or, rather, a relative non-drug user)...the conversation just shuts down when certain drugs are brought up, especially heroin

I remember receiving a lecture about how dangerous using heroin was from a guy who literally averaged a 12 pack of beer a night. Pfft. The stigma that you immediately receive upon admitting that you're a drug user (ime) led me to stop trying to receive help at all from other people & just attempted to do it on my own...still a work in progress...I'm not defined by my former use, that I know for sure

Many times drug users can conceptualize drug abuse and use in intelligent ways, like in the OP (drug abuse and addiction being a complex problem w/o a one size fits all solution IMO), while non users often seem content to be ignorant

Very very true.

I cannot use benzos, or opiates responsibly. I can take or leave every other drug...I just like being sober and having my faculties about me. Opiates and benzos (without blacking out) I could still function and be in control. Other drugs not so much which makes my control issues from the OCD go nuts.
 
I always used to regret whenever I talked about my drug use with a non-drug user (or, rather, a relative non-drug user)...the conversation just shuts down when certain drugs are brought up, especially heroin

I remember receiving a lecture about how dangerous using heroin was from a guy who literally averaged a 12 pack of beer a night. Pfft. The stigma that you immediately receive upon admitting that you're a drug user (ime) led me to stop trying to receive help at all from other people & just attempted to do it on my own...still a work in progress...I'm not defined by my former use, that I know for sure

Many times drug users can conceptualize drug abuse and use in intelligent ways, like in the OP (drug abuse and addiction being a complex problem w/o a one size fits all solution IMO), while non users often seem content to be ignorant

The definition that some people have of what entails an addict is mind boggling. I can't believe in this day and age people believe addiction is based on which substance, not behavior patterns or the level of distress using brings to ine's life. I have been told by other addicts and a few professionals in the field that I wasn't an addict because most of what I took was legal, never mind the fact that I couldn't work, got a DUI (blew a .28 and wasn't even slurring my words), and was in and out of the hospital because of OD'ing. Thar ridiculous thinking prevented me from getting help on more than one occasion because in their minds I didn't have an issue...
 
My personal opinion is that anything we like "too much"? Often leads to a disaster. Also, even if we don't love it but rather are using it to "cover up" our problems, we'll still continue to use or abuse it.

From my own personal experience, I need to steer clear from any opiate. I am in legit pain (physically and emotionally) and although I don't have enough "clean time" as most of you may, I debated getting it back in a lower dose, promising myself I wouldn't abuse it. But I'm positive I will so I can't and won't.

On the other hand, I've been on Xanax since 2009 (4mgs per day is supposed to be my "dose") yet I take much less of it then I'm prescribed. Sometimes as little as 1 mg per day. The reason is because it merely stabilizes me and prevents the severe panic attacks I once used to have several times per week. It doesn't thrill me at all.

Then there's the addiction versus the dependence issue. That aspect confuses me solely because I need to take at least a little per day (or I'd go through withdrawals) but I'm also dependent on it (so that I don't have panic attacks).

I suppose my question is this....am I addicted AND dependent? Those two words often confuse me and if someone could explain the difference in their own words (googling each word pretty much says the same thing), I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
 
Heroin is really addictive though. I wouldn't try to downplay it, but I also wouldn't send someone on a huge guilt trip.

As is alcohol. We don't think about it that way, though, because the OP is correct - moderation is the norm. The difference, however, may be that alcohol is accepted in our society, and moderated use is rarely, if ever, hidden from others - and is celebrated by many. You don't see the same with heroin* - you'd have to be a closet junkie not to receive stigma from a lot of people; and that's the reason why we hear only about the worst when it comes to heroin, because they're at the point where they're unable to hide their use, but see it as the norm - we just don't hear the majority's voice, so to speak.

Also, great post Moreaux. It is true that alcohol abuse is rarely seen as a problem, the consequences of which, as you said, can be pretty dire.

*you can substitute heroin with other illegal drugs.
 
In my opinion being dependant means you'll get withdrawals or your symptoms get worse if not using and being addicted means using substance for something it wasn't meant to be used for in the first hand.

I am not expert but I would say that you are dependant on Xanax but not addicted to it as you use it for what it was meant to be used for.

Things get more complicated when something one is addicted to is used to treat something which isn't diagnosed. If for example someone suffers from depression and anxiety and finds out that opiates help those issues and then becomes dependant. Also in case of a patient needing pain management one might get dependant to what is used for pain as well as addicted if there is recreational use.

Tldr; I guess being dependant could be used in a situations in which a drug is used as meant and addiction in a case in which drug is used recreationally (abused).
 
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^ yes, being addicted and dependent are not the same thing, and are not interchangeable.

Dependence just means that upon cessation of drug intake, you'll experience noticeable symptoms of withdrawal, which may be too unpleasant to bear. It can happen with any drug. I've had it happen with a beta-blocker, which I take for high blood pressure - and sure, beta-blocker withdrawal can be unpleasant and dangerous. But I don't take that stuff for pleasure.

Addiction is more a mind-state. It just means that a person is ready to seek out and consume a drug despite negative consequences. Physical dependence is not required. Example: most stimulants produce little physical dependence, but can be addictive. Also, even though I'm not currently dependent on alcohol, I may think about it and want to use it, despite being dry for over a few days. Again, it's a state of mind more than anything. Which is why it can be more of a bitch to treat.
 
In my opinion being dependant means you'll get withdrawals or your symptoms get worse if not using and being addicted means using substance for something it wasn't meant to be used for in the first hand.

I am not expert but I would say that you are dependant on Xanax but not addicted to it as you use it for what it was meant to be used for.

Things get more complicated when something one is addicted to is used to treat something which isn't diagnosed. If for example someone suffers from depression and anxiety and finds out that opiates help those issues and then becomes dependant. Also in case of a patient needing pain management one might get dependant to what is used for pain as well as addicted if there is recreational use.

Tldr; I guess being dependant could be used in a situations in which a drug is used as meant and addiction in a case in which drug is used recreationally (abused).
Thanks for the reply, MrRoot. I've always just pondered the difference but it makes the most sense wording it as you did. Like I said, I depend on my Xanax. It stabilized my life when I was at a point that I couldn't even leave my home. I often went shopping, had a cart full of items and just had to get out....FAST! I know all about the "fight or flight" and my body was in a near constant state of one. And I never knew when or where but it occured several times per week almost all leading to trips to the ER and they were warranted trips because my bp and pulse would go up extremely high all because with severe panic disorder you feel like you will die at any second.

My pcp at the time started me off at 1 mg 4 times per day. Now some days I only take 1 or 2 per day. Yet just say someone were to go into a rehab (I've not been to one, my nephew has) they'd be taken off of all controlled substances....he was taken off of Ativan and said the wd's were neverending and as soon as he got home he began taking it again.

That's just what's so questionable for me. I take them, yes. Do I have to take them daily, yes. Which sounds like pure addiction. Yet I've never gone through withdrawals from them since I take just when needed and never in excess and I've been on them for 6 years so I don't ever foresee my overtaking them.

Thanks again for your reply. It makes much sense<3
 
^ yes, being addicted and dependent are not the same thing, and are not interchangeable.

Dependence just means that upon cessation of drug intake, you'll experience noticeable symptoms of withdrawal, which may be too unpleasant to bear. It can happen with any drug. I've had it happen with a beta-blocker, which I take for high blood pressure - and sure, beta-blocker withdrawal can be unpleasant and dangerous. But I don't take that stuff for pleasure.

Addiction is more a mind-state. It just means that a person is ready to seek out and consume a drug despite negative consequences. Physical dependence is not required. Example: most stimulants produce little physical dependence, but can be addictive. Also, even though I'm not currently dependent on alcohol, I may think about it and want to use it, despite being dry for over a few days. Again, it's a state of mind more than anything. Which is why it can be more of a bitch to treat.
Thanks for your additional input. Actually thinking about it I suppose that is the answer.

I never fean for Xanax because I know they're always there. I never worry about running out early and never count them. Yet if it were an opiate? Even though I have legit pain issues and can obtain them I cannot control myself with them one single bit.
 
I discovered this side of the forum "sober living", because a topic was transferred here from OD and I went like, what is this! Let's have a look and see what it is...hehe he! Hee...hhhmmmmm. Hmm.

Drug addiction and drug dependence only mean that the person using drugs is in the lower or medium class. The upper class of our society doesn't seem to be compatible with these tags, at least not while the drug user is still a member of that upper class. I saw many cases, especially on TV, where an upper class family disowned their daughter and kicked her out of the house with nothing. So as soon as she was on the street she became known as an addict, and so the addict label immediately stuck to her, otherwise, while she was still in that upper class, people didn't even know she existed, much less that she was an addict.

If you don't have a cushion of family lawyers, doctors and accountants and 3 Bugattis in front of your villa, malicious people will always find a way to stick those tags to you, because it's what they do. Essentially these tags mean nothing, they are only made to belittle, insult and diminish a person's achievements and value, because it's what people do, they always try to show you that they are better than you, that, even-though you have this and that, in reality you're really not better than them. It's very hard for such a tag to stick on a person who is driving a Bugatti, even if you tried, you would only ridicule yourself and people would just think you're jealous. Otherwise, they would probably believe you.

I would not kill my neurons trying to process how addiction means repeatingly using a substance despite negative consequences. Why? Because those negative consequences are mainly material, so it would mean somebody who has everything would not experience any financial consequences, would not experience any legal consequences (family lawyers will destroy anybody standing in their way), they would never run out of substance and so, according to the definition, they would not be addicted because they do not experience any negative consequences whatsoever. The only way you can ever learn about it is if they OD and die, sometimes you hear that on the news.

The media today is worst then the Gestapo or soviet secret services. They apply their tactics, if you want to destroy a community, you pick black sheep from that community and publicly portray them as model examples of that community. Stalin did it, Mussolini did it, every dictator out there destroyed entire communities by applying the principle that media applies today with drug users. They pick up black sheep of our community and make it public, say, look, he's a model drug user living under a bridge...hmmm...no that's a homeless individual. He is homeless, before being anything else so?! I don't wana waste my time with topics like these.

I truly believe that, similarly to how a sex addict's approach to women is the culprit and not his desire for women, in the same way the culprit is not someone's desire for drugs, it's the way they approach drugs. It's all about how you do it. It's what determines if you have a problem or not. Otherwise, it's all about shielding yourself from jealous filth, who want to bestow those tags upon you. If you don't want pigs to eat you don't enter the woodshed. It's my advice. Drugs are nothing compared to social stigma and what malicious people are ready to do to you if you show them you have such a vulnerability. It's all I have to say.
 
I discovered this side of the forum "sober living", because a topic was transferred here from OD and I went like, what is this! Let's have a look and see what it is...hehe he! Hee...hhhmmmmm. Hmm.

Drug addiction and drug dependence only mean that the person using drugs is in the lower or medium class. The upper class of our society doesn't seem to be compatible with these tags, at least not while the drug user is still a member of that upper class. I saw many cases, especially on TV, where an upper class family disowned their daughter and kicked her out of the house with nothing. So as soon as she was on the street she became known as an addict, and so the addict label immediately stuck to her, otherwise, while she was still in that upper class, people didn't even know she existed, much less that she was an addict.

If you don't have a cushion of family lawyers, doctors and accountants and 3 Bugattis in front of your villa, malicious people will always find a way to stick those tags to you, because it's what they do. Essentially these tags mean nothing, they are only made to belittle, insult and diminish a person's achievements and value, because it's what people do, they always try to show you that they are better than you, that, even-though you have this and that, in reality you're really not better than them. It's very hard for such a tag to stick on a person who is driving a Bugatti, even if you tried, you would only ridicule yourself and people would just think you're jealous. Otherwise, they would probably believe you.

I would not kill my neurons trying to process how addiction means repeatingly using a substance despite negative consequences. Why? Because those negative consequences are mainly material, so it would mean somebody who has everything would not experience any financial consequences, would not experience any legal consequences (family lawyers will destroy anybody standing in their way), they would never run out of substance and so, according to the definition, they would not be addicted because they do not experience any negative consequences whatsoever. The only way you can ever learn about it is if they OD and die, sometimes you hear that on the news.

The media today is worst then the Gestapo or soviet secret services. They apply their tactics, if you want to destroy a community, you pick black sheep from that community and publicly portray them as model examples of that community. Stalin did it, Mussolini did it, every dictator out there destroyed entire communities by applying the principle that media applies today with drug users. They pick up black sheep of our community and make it public, say, look, he's a model drug user living under a bridge...hmmm...no that's a homeless individual. He is homeless, before being anything else so?! I don't wana waste my time with topics like these.

I truly believe that, similarly to how a sex addict's approach to women is the culprit and not his desire for women, in the same way the culprit is not someone's desire for drugs, it's the way they approach drugs. It's all about how you do it. It's what determines if you have a problem or not. Otherwise, it's all about shielding yourself from jealous filth, who want to bestow those tags upon you. If you don't want pigs to eat you don't enter the woodshed. It's my advice. Drugs are nothing compared to social stigma and what malicious people are ready to do to you if you show them you have such a vulnerability. It's all I have to say.
WOW. That's the only 3 letters that come to my mind upon reading this. And......"that's all I have to say", as well as good luck to you if that's your way of thinking because I for one, do not agree with it.
 
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