Mixing MDMA with Oral Ketamine

[love_sex_desire]

I don't know if this is allowed but I am going to post this under the Ecstasy Discussion forum and Psychedelic Discussion forum as this thread pertains to both. Mods can notify me if this is against rules.

I have come across pressed "ecstasy" pills back in the day before I swore off pressed pills which contained ketamine and MDMA. They were very enjoyable, I rather liked the mix, but I have no way of knowing what ratio of MDMA to ketamine was present in the pressed pills. I have ketamine and MDMA crystals that I would like to gel into single doses for myself. I normally take 200 milligrams of MDMA for a full-blown MDMA experience as I have a bit of a tolerance to MDMA, and I have a relatively low tolerance to ketamine. I have only orally ingested ketamine on its own once, 3 points in one shot glass. The experience was mind blowing by the way, highly recommended route of administration. I was wondering if anyone has any insight on the best amount of MDMA and ketamine to mix together for a single dose for someone who normally takes 200 milligrams of MDMA and has little tolerance to ketamine. What is the best ratio? I'm assuming trying out 200 milligrams of MDMA with 100 milligrams of ketamine would be a good idea, but I'd rather get some input from people that may have already tried this before I start my trial and error to find the best ratio.

<The yin-yang sums up the perpetuation of existence. A paradoxically positive/negative feedback loop which allows time to perpetuate linearly in circles.>

 

[love_sex_desire]

I have added Shambles response to this thread in the Ecstasy Discussion because "Cross-posting threads in multiple forums is not allowed so I'd delete on or t'other if I were you. Personally I'd suggest PD would be more suited but I'm not an ED mod

Oral ketamine is not very effective and produces more of the toxic metabolite norketamine - the stuff that has resulted in people needing their bladder removed. I'd strongly advise against using ketamine orally on any kind of regular basis. Oral doses of ketamine are in the hundreds of milligram range. Erowid has the figures but think it's around 200-300mg or so. You'd be much better off eating the MDMA and snorting the ket - it's an absolutely divine combination

I usually dose 500mg of MDMA over an evening and snort ~50mg bumps of ket throughout. Save the big lines for the comedown for best results

PS: My MDMA and ket tolerance is huge so don't take those figures as standard - that's just me. The ket amounts are fairly standard though."

 

[love_sex_desire]

I have only ingested ketamine orally once, and don't plan on doing it regularly, but I do remember enjoying the combination orally, and I definitely noticed the effects of ketamine were different orally than through insufflation. I never really do ketamine bumps while I'm still rolling, I usually take a few bumps as I'm coming down. I find this kicks the MDMA high up a bit and adds an interesting psychedelic side to the MDMA high. I will try doing small standard bumps of 50 mgs as you mentioned throughout the experience and see how that goes, al though I am still interested in trying out an oral combination maybe once or twice, as you mentioned it is best to avoid oral consumption of ketamine. Thanks for that information by the way, I did not know that taking ketamine orally was worse for you. When I took ketamine orally and when I took pills with MDMA and ketamine I really enjoyed my experience, so al though I will take Shambles advice to insufflate ketamine throughout the MDMA high for the next time I decide to do MDMA, I am still interested in experimenting a couple times with an oral combination. All feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[Shambles]

Welcome to Swirlsville, LSD

When I say oral ketamine is not very effective I mean that the doses are high as is the sedation but the psychedelic and dissociative effects are relatively minimal compared to other methods. Also, the norketamine build-up seems like an unnecessary risk to me when there are better ways to make use of it. It certainly has a few aficionados though and I'd like to experiment with oral ket myself but with such high tolerance it just seems pointless to me. Even with no tolerance, why eat 300mg for a strong experience when you could probably fall deeply into a hole by snorting 100mg? Just makes no sense to me but I'm thrifty with me dro0gz

 

[love_sex_desire]

Understandably so, I like to be thrifty with my magic crystals too :D, but the duration is much longer with oral administration compared to insufflation. Taking 300 milligrams put me into a fully psychedelic state, with abstract swirls permeating my vision, so for me subjectively, oral administration seemed to increase the psychedelic effect. I may be an oddball out there. When taken orally, the ketamine lasted for about 3 hours. It is a different experience, but I don't think it is necessarily more thrifty for me to snort ketamine as I was relatively equally high, but in a different way, when I took 300 milligrams orally lasting 3 hours, or when I insufflate 300 milligrams in 50-100 milligram bumps throughout 3 hours. If you go through say 700 milligrams of ketamine in 3 hours (taking your tolerance into consideration), maybe try ingesting 700 milligrams all at once. If you are interested in oral ket I would calculate how much you normally do in a 3 hour period and ingest that amount all at once instead. Al though further research may be needed to know how harmful it is to ingest a large amount considering your tolerance will require you to ingest a considerable amount all at once.

 

[Shambles]

I do plan to investigate oral ket for the purposes of scientific enquiry and will report back. Maybe I'll become a convert

My usual way of using ket is IM or IV and average dose would be ~300mg for the former and ~200mg for the latter. You can imagine that may get expensive and it does

I tend to binge on ket staying up shooting it back to back until it's gone. Not big or clever but it is what I do nonetheless. I've gone through 5g in around 6 hours before so an effective oral dose would be insanely huge for me I suspect

 

[love_sex_desire]

Oral doesn't sound very efficient for your specific situation! Al though it was very enjoyable and rather different, so it could be worthwhile. I will try your method of snorting bumps throughout the MDMA experience. If I don't get considerable feedback before I'm ready to try the oral mixture I think I will try out 200 milligrams of MDMA with 150 milligrams of ketamine and see how that works out, as I don't want the ketamine to overpower the MDMA, only potentiate and add to the MDMA high. If anyone has done this mixture orally, I'd appreciate letting me know the different amounts of each you took, and your subjective tolerances. I'm wondering what the ratio should be so the ketamine is effective but doesn't overpower the MDMA.

 

[love_sex_desire]

I do plan to investigate oral ket for the purposes of scientific enquiry and will report back. Maybe I'll become a convert

My usual way of using ket is IM or IV and average dose would be ~300mg for the former and ~200mg for the latter. You can imagine that may get expensive and it does

Which IM site(s) do you use for ketamine IM injection? Are any more effective for ketamine specifically? My girlfriend is a nurse and was interested in how you personally inject it, because apparently it's a very complicated process and you're supposed to first landmark an appropriate IM site and then insert the syringe, try to pull back to make sure there is no blood and that it's not in a blood vessel so it does not go IV and then inject. I'm interested in trying this route of administration as apparently it is the quintessential route of administration for a true ketamine experience, as you'll probably attest to. She'd gladly do the injection for me, (what a lovely girl!) so any help on the best way to IM ketamine from someone who has already done this route would be appreciated.

Apparently rectal administration is very similar to oral administration, so if oral administration produces more of the toxic metabolite norketamine, than rectal administration may be a better alternative to have a similar experience as an oral administration, which I'm assuming would not lead to the same levels of norketamine production.

 

[Shambles]

I think rectal is just as bad for norketamine. I believe it's the amount of ketamine in your system at once that's the issue - the norketamine just can't be excreted quick enough, builds up and does damage. I may be mistaken on that but it is my understanding of the problem and one of the chemistry bods will surely pick me up on it if I'm way off the mark cos they're good like that. Every home should have a chemistry bod

Given my level of use it's a bit pointless for me to worry about norketamine but I love the rush, psychedelia and intense dissociation of injected ketamine and what I hear of oral ket sounds like a more mellow, sedated kinda affair. That's not necessarily a bad thing, of course

IM injection could be done by a two year old, to be honest. I usually use my thigh but also use my buttock and occasionally upper arms. I use a 1ml insulin syringe and it works just fine. I did shoot into an artery once cos I was an idiot and had just drunk a bottle of gin and was being way too sloppy. Normally I'm very careful about making sure it's not in a vein or artery. I also have many, many years of IV drug history so am very familiar with injection techniques. It really is as simple a method as possible really though. You have to try hard to do anything much wrong. No difference in effect depending on muscle used - it all does the same job.

IM ket is lush. IV ket is lush but not to all tastes. IA (?) ket is potentially lethal, was deeply dysphoric and also produced zero psychedeli or dissociation - just massive overstimulation, loss of the ability to speak and whole host of other joys.

If you like nasal ket you would love IM. It truly is by far the best method although I also love the very different nature of IV ket as it feels like nothing else in the world. I ket - does it show?

PS: IM Ketamine Thread - check out the main ket thread too for all the info on ket and various methods of administration therein

 

[naginnudej]

Last Friday my night began with 200mg of MDMA at 9:30PM. Redosed 100mg by 11:15.

By 1:30AM found my way to the afterparty where 100mg MDMA was insufflated.
2AM 35mg bumps of K in each nostril which I would repeat continuously every 45-75mins until 430AM when I took the knockout line (not sure dose size) to the face.

You'll have a blast...at least I did

 

[Solipsis]

Me I prefer my K somewhat later on relative to the empathogen, at least I dont think Id like to come up on it while already K-ing - thats a bit weird.

Plus, I dont understand what is so good about pre-mixing stuff. Yeah if youre talking about stuff you get from a dealer then super-packages of course would be popular but is it not preferable to keep total control yourself about the timing of your combinations??

Yea there is a (somewhat childish) appeal in something like a candyflip pill but taking potent psychoactives is not about posing with pseudoexotic premix doses. No offence.

 

[love_sex_desire]

Solipsis, I'm not tying to pose with pseudoexotic premix doses. I simply want to make only a couple doses (cuz Shambles suggested to limit the amount of ketamine consumed orally, thanks for actually helping me with information by the way Shambles) for me and my girlfriend and we plan to EAT them. Not POSE with them. Drugs are for eating, not posing, so don't worry I wont take offence cuz everyone already knows this, as your suggestion of someone wanting to pose with "super" pills is to the point of junior high mentality, ridiculous, obvious bullshit....no offence.

It is annoying for people to question your motives or your integrity for asking a legitimate question. If Solipsis read any of my other posts on BL you would know I'm rather interested and knowledgeable about psychoactives, and I'm not on this planet to go around trying to look cool with "super" pills. Luckily through the aid of not being a complete idiot and having had tremendous therapeutic success with LSD, I have come to realize that there is much more to life than trying to look "cool". BTW I do enjoy candyflipping and I find it is best to take the LSD first and then follow up with MDMA once you begin to peak.

If you read my other posts on this thread you would know that:
I simply enjoyed the pressed pills mixed with MDMA and ketamine but I didn't know how much of each substance was in the pill, suggesting I enjoyed taking them both orally at the same time, as they were in the same pill.

Yes Solipsis, keeping total control about the timing of combinations is the best, but as I already said, I enjoyed taking MDMA and ketamine at the same time. Rather than stating the obvious could you maybe tell me when you found the best times when combining oral doses of MDMA and ketamine, if you have even done an oral combination of MDMA and ketamine? Unlike MDMA and LSD combinations, I found taking them at the same time was great, but maybe there is a better way.

Rather than questioning my motives for wanting to make a dose of MDMA and ketamine, can anyone here that actually has experience with this combination shed some light on what the best amounts of each chemical are? AS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION STATED? ANY ONE?

 

[mushmind62]

sounds like fun

 

[love_sex_desire]

I'm thinking of trying out a dose with slightly less ketamine than MDMA since I only want the ketamine to potentiatiate the high, not overpower the high. After a bit of research I'm thinking a 200 mg dose of MDMA with a 175 mg dose of ketamine would be a good start. From there I can try increasing the ketamine to 200 mg or 225 mg if the initial dose of 175 mg is too low.

Someone in the bluelight world has surely tried this oral combination so please help me out! How much of each did you ingest? Did you ingest both at the same time or do you find it better to ingest one substance before ingesting the other, and if so which should be ingested first and how long until the other should be ingested? What are your subjective tolerances to each substance?


This post was meant to be a bit of a "bump" since I haven't received any responses from anyone with direct experience with an oral combination of both MDMA and ketamine and its been almost 10 days since my initial post. Sorry for pulling the defence Solopsis, I was extremely cranky in the morning when I responded to your post, and I do see validity in your response. I just want it to be understood that I seriously enjoyed my oral ketamine experiences (both on its own and in an "ecstasy" pill), and don't necessarily want to take them at the same time out of sheer novelty (as I do truly respect and revere these sacred chemicals). In fact, since ketamine seemed to hit me in about 20 minutes and MDMA takes usually about 40 minutes, it might be better to ingest the MDMA first and the ketamine maybe a half an hour later, rather than mixing them in the same capsule.

Please share your experiences from those that have tried the oral MDMA/ketamine combination! Thanks!

 

[Solipsis]

OK love_sex_desire now that we have acknowledged your intentions You do understand my apprehension with your plan - now it doesn't matter one bit to me whether one has 50.000 posts and made one hell of a case for themselves - I just wonder why they would have to get into the same gelcap.

Let us divert our focus from that then. I'm sorry but I never took ketamine orally but if I would I would take the ketamine 30-60 (rather 60) minutes after the MDMA. Which would be a problem if you would premix them.

Another thing is: how much MDMA do you take normally? Because there are certainly dose that use in excess and are affected by the monster called tolerance. (Sometimes the monster is righteous :D )
About 150 mg of MDMA followed by 300 mg of ketamine sounds like a starting point to me - not only a starting point in terms of follow-up combination or redosing but starting point in terms of investigation....
Hopefully I have been of some help, you have to forgive me though for misinterpreting the weight of your thread title since it appears that mixing in a gel cap is not what you want, but just combining them and timing them in a particular fashion.

I'm sure you'll get it (dosage and timing) right

 

[love_sex_desire]

Ya the title is off, I don't know how to edit it, but it doesn't require "in a gel cap". Nonetheless, I normally take 220 mg of MDMA crystal, a bit of a tolerance. I always use the same MDMA so its always of same potency. I figured I'd start with 200 mg of MDMA and take your advice and try the ketamine maybe 45-60 minutes after the MDMA. The ketamine is crystal as well, and by my standards, rather good quality. 300 mg of ketamine seems like a lot. I took 300 mg of ketamine on its own and it was extremely psychedelic and completely overpowering. This was only my 2nd time trying ketamine so I may have more of a tolerance now, but I've never used ketamine too extensively. The last couple months is the heaviest usage I've done, probably using it around almost twice a week on average. Other than that I did ketamine a couple times a year at the most and had not done any for over a year before the last couple months. I may have a bit of a tolerance but 300 seems like its a little too much. I was thinking 200 mg of MDMA and 175 mg of ketamine is a good safe start. But maybe 200 mg of ketamine?...225? Depending on how much of a tolerance one would get from insufflating a few hundred mg of ketamine in a night around twice a week for about eight consecutive weeks. I cant really tell, but I probably have a bit of tolerance. Maybe 200 mg of each with the ketamine ingested an hour after the MDMA. I keep on gradually calling for more ketamine in the mix, but unless anyone who has done the mix suggests anything different I think 200 mg of each is a good idea. I'm planning on doing this after I try doing MDMA and then insufflating ketamine throughout the experience. I've only insufflated ketamine at the end of the roll, so this will be my first time insufflating ketamine throughout the MDMA high. I'll have more control over my dose when insufflating and will get a feel for the MDMA/ketamine mix since its been a long time since I took the "ecstasy" pills with the mixture. I'll probably do the oral MDMA insufflated ketamine mix within the next couple weeks and will report back before moving on to the oral mixture of both.

 

[Diacetyl-M]

I just thought I'd chime in as I have had pressed MDMA/Ketamine pills a couple times in the late 90's-early 00's and also enjoyed them quite a bit It has however, been a decade since I last tried oral K with MDMA, and a lot has changed for me regarding tolerance, as have my tastes regarding ROA.

I tend to binge on ket staying up shooting it back to back until it's gone. Not big or clever but it is what I do nonetheless. I've gone through 5g in around 6 hours before so an effective oral dose would be insanely huge for me I suspect

This pretty much sums up my relationship with ketamine. It's been a year or so since I've done any K, but for quite some time now, if I bought it, I'd use it in the same manner as the above quote, which is sure to affect tolerance in a large way. In fact I've got to the point where it's hard to dissolve enough K in one CC of water without it re-crystalizing in the syringe before injection. Unfortunately I'm not the only one who has experienced this problem either:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=243166

Theres a moderator who's had the same happen. A little off topic, but I was trying to illustrate how much tolerance will play a role in my advice. The MDMA/Ketamine pills I had back when I raved only weighed 375 mg... I remeber weighing them, but I couldn't tell you what logo/colour they had, sorry. I was attempting to guess the ratio, which is why I weighed them. One pill was satisfactory for me at the time, though it produced the kind of high where I wanted to be up and about and dancing... and assuming I was new to the scene and had a low tolerance, I'm sure the same pill would not be satisfactory now. I'm unclear on how much filler needs to be in a pill to hold it together, but my guess was that these pills had about 100mg of MDMA (based on lots of experience using pure powder orally). I have practically zero experience with oral Ketamine by itself, so I can't guess.

It always surprises me how nicely the two mix, but I have found, as mentioned above, that it is ideal to take the K about an hour after the MDMA. I like to wait for the MDMA to fully kick-in, then inject 50-100mg IM about 45min to an hour later... or as soon as I've got past the initial come-up of the E. I actually prefer IV ket, but it is far too short to use when mixing with MDMA. It really depends on how hallucinogenic you want the experience... what are you and your GF planning on doing? Do you want a K hole while on MDMA? Or do you just want that nice dimension that K adds to the MDMA experience? If the latter is the case, I would try only 100-150mg of ketamine orally with whatever your preferred MDMA dose is. Though with the speed of onset and short duration I've found with ketamine, it probably makes sense to wait 30 mins after taking the MDMA. But perhaps I'm mis-judging as it's been so long? Let us know how it works out

 

[Dimitri K.]

So...just trying to get a summary here...if I want to really experience MDMA I should wait until afterwards for my K which could in fact help my comedown?