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Harm Reduction Missed ketamine shot -> Rapid necrosis

crOOk

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
4,047
Location
Germany
I IV'ed 1.1ml of aqeous solution that contained 250mg ketamine (almost saturated) into my left vena mediana (in the antecubital fossa) 6 days ago.

All is fine so far. When I come back to reality, I decide to inject another 250mg. I usually go for two injections per session, but the second one has always been a little difficult to perform due to the ketamine intoxication.

It seemed that all went well, but I experienced no rush or instant knockout. It took a minute or two to enter k hole. When I came back I noticed that some skin (6-7mm round patch) was missing around the second injection site, along with some swelling around it. It seemed I injected the entire amount into the subcutaneous tissue above the vein. Due to being intoxicated, I felt no pain.

The next day I realized there was an actual hole (same size still, about 1mm deep), the edges being red or slightly purple and the center being white. I basically just waited how that would develope for two days, without covering it or applying any ointments. On day 3 I realized there was some serious necrosis, capillaries had obviously been destroyed and the wound wouldn't heal very quickly. I proceded to apply povidone-iodine, thyrotrycin and concentrated sucrose solution and covered up the wound for most of the day (I left it uncovered whenever I had to leave the house and kept my arm rotated or flexed so no one would notice). Surprisingly, there has been very little pain and hardly any itching during the entire 6 days.

So what has happened?
-Apparently ketamine extravasation can cause local ischemia and in turn ischemic necrosis (source).
-Since I noticed the bang of my injections increases with the concentration of the solution, I chose to almost saturate the solution at 250mg/1.1ml. This results in an osmolarity of over 900mOsm/L, which is higher than most tissue can take (source).

How to react if this happens to you:
-If you notice while the needle is still in there, draw as much liquid back up as you can.
-Since ketamine seems to exhibit vasocontrictive properties, applying cold is contraindicated (despite usually being the right measure after extravasation of most drugs).
-Elevation of the arm can help to clear liquid faster by increasing lymphatic flow.
-Povidone-iodine and sucrose solution have proven to be effective for treating ulcers (source, there are many more sources coming to the same conclusion).
-There are other ways to treat this, but the exact measures vary greatly depending on which drug was injected and evidence for effective treatment of ketamine extravasation is very sparse (since the damage usually isn't this bad for less concentrated solutions). To be safe, I would disadvise saline flushing attemps or application of other medication (e.g. nitroglycerin to rapidly counter vasoconstriction).

What you can do to avoid this from happening:
-Don't IV ketamine when you are already on it. Instead go for an intramuscular shot or even take it intranasally (yuk).
-Use a solution of 100mg/ml (400 mOsm/L which is safe) in order to avoid osmotic damage, this is even more important for IM/subcutaneous shots!!

It's hard to tell how much of the damage was due to ketamine itself causing ischemia and how much was due to the hyperosmolarity of the solution.

Now I'm stuck with this nasty-ass sloughing stage II ulcer which is gonna take forever to heal. I'm considering debridement by using clostridiopeptidase A to remove dead tissue which could temporarily make the wound look even uglier than it already does. Maggots which can be acquired prescription-fee through a pharmacy would similarly help get rid of the dead tissue in the center.

The current plan is to just wait for it to heal, trying to keep the wound moist so the body's enzymes can clear the dead tissue quicker to allow for healing and keep it from infecting by applying the mentioned solution. After 6 days, it already looks slightly better with the white center becoming pink (which is why I'll abstain from debridement if it continues to heal).

I expect this to take another 2-4 weeks at least to be completely gone and there will probably be a really nice scar, marking me as an IV drug abuser. YAY! I am also really looking forward to the many interactions with family and friends during this time, as well as picking my daughter up from kindergarten, visiting the playground and other places where there are parents around with her etc.

Stupidly enough I injected into the same vein, slightly proximal to the ulcer, on 5 out of 6 days. I can't inject into my right antecubital fossa since I have blood drawn almost every week and I can't for the life of me find any other suitable veins, the only visible ones being on my hands and the feet despite relatively low bodyfat.
I considered throwing all my needles away yesterday, since I have only recently starting IV'ing so frequently (only a couple of times per year before that) and have so rapidly seen such serious complications.
 
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If anyone has any additional advice, please share it. Wound is still sloughing hard and the clostridiopeptidase A is years past it's shelf life, doesn't seem to be doing much. Anything that can decrease healing time would be awesome.

I'm measuring the wound's size daily, but it hasn't really been shrinking at all (on the plus side, it hasn't gotten worse either and still hardly hurts or itches at all).

I had to attend the birthday party of one of my daughter's friends yesterday and had to keep the area out of view for 3 hours, I couldn't think of anything else. I'm usually talkative as shit, but I remained silent for most of the time because I had my thoughts focussed on hiding the ulcer. It'd be fucked if this takes more than 2 weeks, since I have my next therapy and psychiatrist appointments around that time (fortunately both psychiatrist and therapist have some time off right now).
 
I was not aware of the risks

I have IV'd ketamine several times in a row before

I am glad not to have missed
<3
I think the biggest problem was the osmolarity. It not only delayed the absorption of the extravasated ketamine, but somehow must have also allowed the ketamine to cause a lot more damage to the cells around it. Considering the skin was already coming off before I went to sleep, it becomes apparent ketamine has some major potential to damage tissue.

Intramuscular ketamine seems pretty problematic as well. I'm too lazy to dig the study back up right now, but it's doing significant damage to muscle tissue and I'm surprised this hasn't come up on the forums yet. You can expect to lose a few grams worth of muscle cells every time you shoot some in there. Creatine kinase levels after a single shot went up over 1600 IU/L (usually around 60-170) which is an indicator for muscle tissue damage. This couldn't be reproduced with IV ketamine, so it seems to be an immediate reaction to the substance coming in contact with the tissue.

As for the ulcer, it's been around 10 days now and it's diameter has decreased by 1mm so far. I dropped the povidone-iodine, thyrotrycin and concentrated sucrose (not supposed to take thyrotrycin with these peptidases anyway), since the wound hasn't become infected. Instead I only applied those collagenases and other peptidases (Iruxol®), I think it's most important to get rid of the slough in order for the ulcer to heal faster and it seems to be working.
 
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I'm sorry, but instead of talking like a doctor on BL, why don't you GO to a fucking doctor? No offense.
 
^^ That is downright rude and uncalled for. There may be many reasons why the OP cannot see a doctor. He seems to be handling the situation very well, knows what he is talking about and by the sounds of it knows that an infection would require some sort of professional intervention. If you have nothing positive to contribute to a thread, then just don't bother. @cRook, sounds like you have everything under control. The only other cream I would suggest is Germolene. It's an antiseptic, so will help both with the pain and preventing infection. Hope it clears up soon and you don't have too much of a nasty scar. Stay safe.
 
How is it under control when he has a rotting flesh wound? If that doesn't require medical attention, I don't know what does. Rude or not, he needs medical attention no matter what.
 
^^ That is downright rude and uncalled for. There may be many reasons why the OP cannot see a doctor. He seems to be handling the situation very well, knows what he is talking about and by the sounds of it knows that an infection would require some sort of professional intervention. If you have nothing positive to contribute to a thread, then just don't bother. @cRook, sounds like you have everything under control. The only other cream I would suggest is Germolene. It's an antiseptic, so will help both with the pain and preventing infection. Hope it clears up soon and you don't have too much of a nasty scar. Stay safe.
Thanks for the advice. I used povidone-iodine as an antiseptic which also covers all pathogens (bacteria, virii, protozoans and fungi). Germolene contains phenol and Chlorhexidine both of which are also antiseptic. Both iodine and phenol can do some pretty serious damage to tissue themselves which is why they are used in such low concentrations. That's also why I would probably do more damage (longer time to heal) without gaining any additional benefit by using both at the same time.

I chose povidone-iodine over a phenol and chlorhexidine ointment because I always have it at home for all sort of injuries that run risk of becoming infected.

How is it under control when he has a rotting flesh wound? If that doesn't require medical attention, I don't know what does. Rude or not, he needs medical attention no matter what.
The wound is not "rotting". Tissue was destroyed by the saturated ketamine solution. The wound has been healing since then, not rotting. How exactly did you get the idea that it was rotting?

Besides, this isn't me asking you for advice. I post this to help others who run into similar problems and more importantly to prevent others from running into similar problems. I am well aware that seeking a doctor would be good advice if I was either not perfectly sure what i am dealing with here or if the wound was becoming infected which is easily recognized by the pain, redness, warmth and swelling.

That being said, what do you think a doctor would do? I can tell you for damn sure that no general practitioner would prescribe the enzymes that I am using because he either doesn't know that they are useful in this scenario or they are simply too expensive (his budget would take a hit, that's how it works in Germany).

This is by far the best thing you can do to aid the healing process when there is necrotic tissue in the form of slough inside the wound. The sooner the necrotic tissue has been disaggregated, the sooner the wound can start healing. At first I wasn't sure if this was necessary since the wound was relatively small. When it didn't seem to heal with sucrose and povidine-iodine applied to it and no signs of infection were showing, I switched to the enzyme ointment which has been working pretty well so far. The wound is healing and it's not infected.

The reason why I am not seeking a doctor is because it is a very humiliating process to out yourself as an IV drug user who is stupid enough to extravasate his drugs. I am usually very honest to all my doctors and most know of my history of drug abuse (as well as my current level of drug abuse), but I just felt very ashamed about this current ordeal which is why I tried to avoid seeing a doctor at all costs. An infection would've of course forced me to go.

Thanks for your advice though and ofc for not offending me. ;)



Bottom line: Use ketamine at concentrations of 100mg/ml or even lower if you want to keep damage to your tissue to a minimum.
 
Well, you do seem very well-informed on the subject. I digress. I said rotting because of the title of this thread. I'm glad you seem to have it under control. Hope it heals well without much scar tissue.
 
Wow this dumb ass needs to see a fuckin doctor... so tired of fuckin retards missing their shots and ruining needles for the rest of us smart, responsible iv drug users. GO TO A FUCKIN DOCTOR BEFORE YOU DIE!!!!! IM WORRIED
 
Wow this dumb ass needs to see a fuckin doctor... so tired of fuckin retards missing their shots and ruining needles for the rest of us smart, responsible iv drug users. GO TO A FUCKIN DOCTOR BEFORE YOU DIE!!!!! IM WORRIED
Wow dude, I think you should go and see a psychiatrist before you hurt someone.

Btw it's been 12 days and the wound is closing up very quickly now. It took a week to get any smaller than the initial 6x6mm, but now that it's started to heal it's gone down to 2x3mm within 5 days. I expect it to have healed by the end of the week. That would be the same time as it took for my 3rd degree burns to heal in 2007 (12% body surface, the DMT story for those who remember).
 
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I know absolutely nothing of IV use and I don't use ketamine myself. So this might be a very dumb question, I'm just wondering because I have a lot of mates that do k. Do you think ketamine has potential for tissue damage even if it is insufflated? I ask this because I just remembered one of my mates has had a few open sores around his nose. Not just sores, the skin first starts to crackle around his nose and after a while it lets go, leaving a big open wound around his nose. I was wondering if this could be due to his ketamine consumption. It kinda resembles necrosis though there is no dead tissue except for the skin letting go. It heals up rather slowly as well, he applies topical ointments but it still takes like 2 weeks to fully heal. It looks very.... nasty

Sorry for a bit off-topic by the way, your thread just reminded me of this. Also, good thing you wrote this up, might help someone that missed a shot. Good job :)
 
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Yes, I would assume so and I don't think it's off topic. There haven't been any threads addressing this issue, so I would say this is the right place.

According to this source ketamine causes local ischemia and thereby necrosis. I found multiple other sources which also came to the conclusion that ketamine causes local necrosis of muscle tissue when administered intramuscularly, without any of them stating the precise mechanism.

However if it does indeed cause damage to mucous membranes when it comes in contact with them, this damage must somehow be attenuated or otherwise every ketamine user would have lost their nose by now. ;) I used to get nosebleeds every single time I did ketamine back in the days, but only on the next day. Never seen that with any other substances I used intranasally, not as reliably anyway. Another close friend of mine who used to be a regular ketamine user via the intranasal ROA has a hole of about 1cm diameter in this nasal septum, but he was also doing cocaine intranasally. Still, these are two more indicators. Most people who get into a serious ketamine habit will eventually resort to using it IM/IV, so data is sparse, but I will try to find some more information.

As a reminder though, the damage we saw in my subcutaneous and cutaneous tissue was probably due to the high osmolarity of the solution I injected (over 900mOsm/L would usually cause necrosis) or otherwise we would have heard of this before. I'm not the first one to miss a ketamine shot, but apparently the only one who used a saturated solution, missed the shot and reported the results to bluelight. Since ketamine is given IV in clinical settings every day, often at 100mg/ml, we would have heard about it causing such rapid damage to the surrounding tissue.


EDIT: Here we go...

For the 96 chronic cases (Fig. 4), their mean and median duration of ketamine abuse is 8.6 years (SD, 4.1 years) and 4 years, respectively. Majority (88, 92 %) of them presented with features of ketamine cystitis such as dysuria, urgency, and frequency while 63 (66 %), 40 (42 %), and 15 (16 %) of them presented with chronic abdominal pain, nasal problems (including three cases of septal perforation), and psychiatric features, respectively.

Source
Considering that many of these were probably using ketamine exclusively intravenously or intramuscularly, 42% presenting with nasal problems and 7.5% of these presenting with septal perforation gives us a pretty good idea of what ketamine can do to your nose.

There are other studies discussing ketamine's toxic effects, most of them focus on epithelial cells in the urinary system. This is a very good article explaining how ketamine affects epithelial tissue, eventhough it focusses on tubular epithelial cells, some of this goes for other tissue as well, e.g. the epithelial cells in your digestive system and your nose.

Basically, it pretty much destroys your entire body. Look at [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4059572/]this[/URL] for an impressive case report.

I'd imagine intranasal use to be the most damaging ROA, followed by IM use, since in these methods tissue is directly exposed to large amounts of the substance, which is not the case for IV use (not mentioning rectal/oral since it is very uncommon). In intranasal use you should also do additional damage your esophagus and gastrointestinal tract which would not occur with IM/IV use. Intranasal use also requires significantly more substance for similar (and shittier lol) effects which is why I'd expect it to also cause more damage to the urinary system. However this only goes for single administrations, while the real damage ultimately depends on how much substance is used in total.
 
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Very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to look this all up! So it could very well be because of his ketamine use, possibly facilitated by a pre-existing skin condition or something, that is causing these sores for him. He already went to see a skin specialist because he is very self-conscious about this and because it hurts like hell but nothing that guy tried really helped much. It kind of just heals on its' own and then pops up again later on. I will show him this information. He isn't addicted or even a habitual user, though he does use regularly, so he will have no problems abstaining for a while to test this out. By the way he doesn't do any other drugs except for MDMA (always orally) and weed, so I think if the culprit is some drug it's going to be the k. We'll see

Thanks again!
 
Good information crOOk. Thank you.
Glad it's of some use to you. :)

He isn't addicted or even a habitual user, though he does use regularly, so he will have no problems abstaining for a while to test this out. By the way he doesn't do any other drugs except for MDMA (always orally) and weed, so I think if the culprit is some drug it's going to be the k. We'll see

Thanks again!
Please do let us know how that works out for him! It's quite rare to find someone who exclusively uses ketamine intranasally, no other drugs. If this doesn't get him anywhere, they might consider a biopsy to determine the exact histological changes. It's possible the doctor won't consider this necessary or too expensive, depending on how much he suffers from this condition.
 
This may be off-topic or already mentioned, but I've heard of studies and/or doctors using ketamine infusions to help treat people with depression who don't respond well to other treatments. I guess thing infuse it slowly so you don't get any high from it. Will have to look more into it.
 
That's definitely off topic and there are plenty of threads about this. I actually got hooked to IV ketamine again that way (been using it occasionally for 10 years though). The plan was to do 2x40mg racemic ketamine intravenously per week. I am medicated with lamotrigine and bupropion which are great, but ketamine is the über-antidepressant. Too bad I only managed to stay at that dosage twice, all other times going straight for the k hole which now takes 280mg IV. Need to get rid of this habit.

Sorry, still OT. Keep the antidepressant discussion in another thread please, this isn't even harm reduction.
 
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