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mindfulness/meditation VS. escaping reality

Nephtys

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
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243
Mindfulness and meditation are in a way methods to confront reality.
But how the hell do I know I'm just not escaping reality???
When I meditate and concentrate on my breath after a while my thoughts start to vanish.
When thoughts are gone, problems are too...
The whole point of mindfulness and meditation isn't to escape reality.
But in a way thougts vanish, reality vanishes too?????
 
If you want to make real progress meditation should be used as confrontation and not for inducing tranquility. As soon as you stop your tranquility meditation your problems will simply rush back in. Meditation should be used to go over past traumatic events to release the hold it has on you in the present.
 
reality is a illusion
but then the illusion is real
so what are you escaping from, which part of yourself are you avoiding by centering on one side more than the other ?
thats up to you to notice, in the end for me its about balance, you can create a good head space to balance from when you meditate, you sure can avoid stuff just like you can take drugs to avoid stuff, but drugs can be a good way to deal with some stuff, it can be a great way to help you out, even if its the non trippy one, like alcohol, ive learn a lot about myself due to alcohol, it also made me able to reconnect with parts of my former self i had lost trough depression, tho it also brought back depression...
what are your intention when you go into meditation ? you probably are not trying to avoid stuff atm specially if you make a thread about it, and thats the important part here, but it aint like i started drinking for the sake of avoiding stuff, i was just having fun at first, but things changed, you might end up in a convent and renounce marital life and that kind of stuff and your real motivation might be more related to a underlying sexual problem or social problem more than a genuine interest in your belief system, its all tricky, its always good to psychoanalyze yourself to understand where you are coming from and where you are going, know thyself as they say, but dont forget that you aint your past, you are your present and that includes the past just as much as it includes your future, its like that pink floyd cover from dsotm, your past is that thin white line and your future is all those colors but you are that triangle, and that triangle is empty, you cant turn left and right at the same time, you cant choose red and blue and all colors at the same time, you can just pick one and create the past on that, escapism will arise if look back more than forward, if you loose balance, but if what you are practicing while meditating are your balancing skills then you should be ok, but its easy to get lost and believe that you are doing it right when parts of you might be caught up in false achievement, so you always need to be open to the idea that you might be doing it wrong
i use to think way too much about it all for the sake of doing it right but i ended doing it wrong by thinking too much, its like in highschool i would draw some pretty schedule to organize my time but i would waste so much time drawing them that i would fail at saving any time, i was simply making excuses not to start my homeworks right away

you never know for sure, but then that can be the interesting part, it wouldn't be much of a meditation if you would know for sure you are doing it right, i know when im doing it right because i know what kind of result i like to get, and i get them, and thats great, but that aint a end more than a begining, its a experience, and it doesnt have to be right or wrong, same thing with drugs, there is good and bad to be found, some people end up with a false sense of superiority, or a false sense of enlightenment, its tricky,
lately ive being meditating a lot and i know its in part because im avoiding stuff, but at the same time im confronting myself with it, because it help me deal with that stuff,
you are the judge of what you do, you learn from experience, you cant simply blindly believe that meditation is good for you simply because it can have benefit, its like masturbation, its like anything really, even if you are training good and loosing weight you might end up with knee problem, or feel like you are on a good diet until you get problems due to too much vitamins, you have kids and its the best thing in your life until 30 years later you realize maybe you could have waited 5 more years before getting there....
its all relative, are you escaping meditating this very moment because its easier to talk about it in here instead of actually doing it ?
thats one thing you can meditate on, you can meditate on meditating on meditating on meditating....
 
I think mindfulness meditation is simply an exercise which is good for your mind, it may alter the way in which you interact with your reality -it kind of depends upon what your outlook is as to whether it's pointless escapism or a powerful tool with which you help manage your reality.
 
^

reality is a illusion
but then the illusion is real

escapism will arise if look back more than forward, if you loose balance, but if what you are practicing while meditating are your balancing skills then you should be ok,

this bit here i like and relate to in my own way - maybe try some standing yoga-meditation postures.

Nephtys
the Vriksha / 'Tree' is my favorite asana maybe...hehe i crave it now. that and the Makara/'Crocodile'.

Vriksha is beneficial by kind of forcing you to focus, and retain that focus, this isnt escaping but a means to help one see-through and bypass unnecessary luggage, be it the what is intended as luggage, or there sub-consciously by providing better foresight' and exercise the memory. having to balance physically and multi-task mentally is,, well is yoga - haha - but indeed some pure mindful stimulation at its best. i switch feet, chant a mantra, have a light something like 10 feet away and a few feet above the level of my head, at a 45D angle from your eye sight, is all very helpful and freaking simple.

Makaras intention is to help relax, thoroughly, and wind down maybe for a good nights sleep and dreams.

so this isnt avoiding, but focusing and then facing, at the beginning of the day before work etc. or for you time in the evening...

:)
 
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Mindfulness and meditation are in a way methods to confront reality.
But how the hell do I know I'm just not escaping reality???
When I meditate and concentrate on my breath after a while my thoughts start to vanish.
When thoughts are gone, problems are too...
The whole point of mindfulness and meditation isn't to escape reality.
But in a way thougts vanish, reality vanishes too?????

To me, the benefit of meditation isn't solely in the immediate relaxation and tranquility (the acute phase if you will). By learning to still the mind and induce calm (in degrees) we can learn to deal with what may feel like overwhelming problems in diffferent ways. I've often had trouble talking and explaining myself in a coherent way; like I get excited when talking to people and end up talking gibberish (or worrying that I am) and then get anxious and paranoid. Practises like mindfullness meditation have allowed me to slow down during these incidents, calm myself and talk more honestly and lucidly. When you do your meditating, focus on the feeling of thought receding, and use your knowledge of that process after you finish meditating to contemplate the problems you have. Enjoy the moments of calm and thought-less-ness, and exploit them when your back to reality.

BTW, theres nothing wrong with avoiding your troubles for a while, if done in a careful manner and meditation is a healthy way of doing so. For one thing, meditating is a almost proven method of tackling your troubles; presumably, we want to resolve conflict which can entail active, logical thought or simply placing issues to the sidelines for a while. Good meditation and mind-control will help you do that. Meditating is a lot healthier then using drugs to avoid problems, which almost always end up compounding and increasing problems (for me at least) Constantly trying to attack or confront issues you have is relatively useless. All people need to be able to put aside sufferring for a while at least. There's nothing inherently brave about confrontation, and nothing weak about healthy avoidance. Everything in proportion. Use the tricks that meditation teaches you.

If you want to make real progress meditation should be used as confrontation and not for inducing tranquility. As soon as you stop your tranquility meditation your problems will simply rush back in. Meditation should be used to go over past traumatic events to release the hold it has on you in the present.

I just really disagree with that. Mindfullness meditation doesn't seem to be a practise that inspires incredible powers of cognition and problem solving. It helps to set a backdrop for problem solving, by invoking calmness, but it isn't in itself and actual solution to these issues. Its a foundation. In fact, meditation is more about learning to calm the parts of the mind that won't cease worrying by actively causing the mind to calm. After you experience this calm, and know that its achievable, its like your neurons learn a new pattern of firing and are more inclined to slip into this pattern when you desire it. Of course, ignoring problems is unhealthy (to an extent- who can completely ignore truly troublesome things anyway?) but so is overly focusing on them. When I feel agitated, I can barely think and worries overwhelm; however, if I catch myself and just breathe for a while, when I emerge from that, I realise my issues are either simpler then I thought or non-existent. These days, the intense agitation barely gets going before my mind starts to soothe itself.

The differing meditation techniques are helpful, and some of them are confrontational, but simple mindfullness meditation is more about calming the often violent peaks and troughs of waking consciousness and entering a more pure state of (literally) Mind. For me, confrontation occurs after meditation creates a blank canvas. Its the only method or way of life that I've encountered that has had me truly at peace, even when looking into the void.
 
I like this thread ive been exploring mindfulness and meditation for 5 or 6 years now and I am still learning what it means to be mindful, still seeing through ego, and habits. Its all interesting really even the simple thing what does it mean to be mindful? I try throughout the day to just keep recognizing I am aware, I am present here now I take note of the smells/touch/sights and just breathe acknowledging awareness and the moment. When I consistantly do this I get a sort of lucid or open clear spacious feeling. Sometimes when I smoke too much pot and eat unhealthy I feel like I go in a daze of slumbering through life in a sort of confused stupor, then I will go exercising, sober and eating healthy doing mindfulness and everything gets all clear again.

I am interested in Advaita Vedanta they say that you are that which never comes and goes. Yet in reality everything comes and goes so there is something that watches the stupor and the clarity and see's them arise and pass away. That insight alone is interesting just the fact that awareness see's all things arise and pass away yet it itself cannot be seen.

Its really pretty wonderful to recognize there are 7 billion people, nobody knows where they came from before they were born, its immanent that you will die and your body will be in a box 8 feet under the ground while maggots consume your flesch, and this whole thing is a huge fucking mystery. Everyone acts like they know who they are, and who you are, and what the fuck is going on.... but do we really? I have no fucking clue who I am, what is going on, what reality is.... im to the point I can for sure say I know nothing I dont no anything at all... no fucking clue.
 
I like this thread ive been exploring mindfulness and meditation for 5 or 6 years now and I am still learning what it means to be mindful, still seeing through ego, and habits. Its all interesting really even the simple thing what does it mean to be mindful? I try throughout the day to just keep recognizing I am aware, I am present here now I take note of the smells/touch/sights and just breathe acknowledging awareness and the moment. When I consistantly do this I get a sort of lucid or open clear spacious feeling. Sometimes when I smoke too much pot and eat unhealthy I feel like I go in a daze of slumbering through life in a sort of confused stupor, then I will go exercising, sober and eating healthy doing mindfulness and everything gets all clear again.


Its really pretty wonderful to recognize there are 7 billion people, nobody knows where they came from before
they were born, its immanent that you will die and your body will be in a box 8 feet under the ground while maggots consume your flesch, and this whole thing is a huge fucking mystery. Everyone acts like they know who they are, and who you are, and what the fuck is going on.... but do we really? I have no fucking clue who I am, what is going on, what reality is.... im to the point I can for sure say I know nothing I dont no anything at all... no fucking clue.

^^i like this, personally when i notice my insignificance, i see how individually we also have a chance to see what ability we each have to take control - i like to imagine while knotting, the knot being a flame which is rising and twisting, changing from white to blue and on in spectrum - rising up and out the core of my body and along the flames rise, it dissipating the images of myself that wish to burn off and recreate and that piece of my ego itself becoming insignificant, or recreated into something unique/positive.


... why not share?!?
hehe
;-)
 
My opinion is keep doing what your doing because sounds like you're doing it right, and find a forum better than this one (one filled with fewer druggies is always better for talking about spirituality IMO, the drugs muddy up the waters) if you really want to talk about the ineffible over a message board, but seek out a meditation teacher or numerous teachers until you find one that resonates with you. There's nothing wrong with doing what you are doing, the reality is what you are experiencing constantly. You can't escape from it no matter what you do, so don't worry about escaping just because your problems seem to go away. The truth is that life is deeper than "your problems" and though they might go away, that doesn't mean you are escaping life, it just means you are experiencing it from a different perspective.
 
i meditate to see how naturally far i can get from reality. those are just words though. confront what is now happening to you with eagerness
 
^You're not escaping reality in any way shape or form when you meditate. People must have fairly arbitrary and limited definitions of what defines "reality" for some reason. It surprises me that so many meditators also fail to realize this, I'd expect it from people who have never meditated, then again, misinformation abounds. I think it's important for anyone doing meditation to read "Zen Mind Beginner's Mind" by Shunryu Suzuki Roshi to gain some perspective on the topic.
 
coffeedrinker said:
You're not escaping reality in any way shape or form when you meditate

How do you know that? Isn't 'eascaping reality' a subjective notion?

Meditating is one of the most diverse activities. In a way, everything can be meditation. Similarly, there is no one aim of meditation, and no one technique.
 
One of the greatest issues i've had to face and still do on occasion is how easy i slip into martyrdom; i willingly accept and embrace all personal suffering as a necessary means for personal transformation, in essence i am defined through my misery.. "He rages most of all at the thought that eternity might get it into its head to take his misery from him!". I refuse to be responsible for everything, so i'll be responsible for nothing, all suffering incurred along the way only serves to justify my cause.

So in a strange way i use my own suffering to escape reality by refusing to accept responsibility for my existence. Took me a long time to realize this in myself, and yet i still do it. Its like been on the edge of the void.. and in some desperate last ditch attempt to stop myself falling in i flat-out reject everything.
 
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How do you know that? Isn't 'eascaping reality' a subjective notion?

Meditating is one of the most diverse activities. In a way, everything can be meditation. Similarly, there is no one aim of meditation, and no one technique.

Idk really know. It just seems impossible for meditation to be an escape from reality. I can't fathom it, and the only thing that makes sense is that people don't really know what reality is, otherwise they'd realize they aren't escaping anything ever.
 
^Of course it can; same as escape can be meditation.

Avoiding pain is not a bad thing. Its a human thing.
Using meditation as a means to habitually avoid problems is dysfunctional though.
 
One of the greatest issues i've had to face and still do on occasion is how easy i slip into martyrdom; i willingly accept and embrace all personal suffering as a necessary means for personal transformation, in essence i am defined through my misery.. "He rages most of all at the thought that eternity might get it into its head to take his misery from him!". I refuse to be responsible for everything, so i'll be responsible for nothing, all suffering incurred along the way only serves to justify my cause.

So in a strange way i use my own suffering to escape reality by refusing to accept responsibility for my existence. Took me a long time to realize this in myself, and yet i still do it. Its like been on the edge of the void.. and in some desperate last ditch attempt to stop myself falling in i flat-out reject everything.

Thats so profound and honest Malakaix. How do you think your insight into your 'martyring' is going to change your life? :) <3
 
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