N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
Mianserin or Tianeptine
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
If you had to choose an antidepressant you could enjoy, which of these would you pick?
apparently mianserin has some sort of action at mu-opioid receptor, since naloxone antagonizes the analgesia it produces.
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
I don't know if I can. There's a lot of info on it as an abused substance. One lady was eating 30 tabs of it a day
jasoncrest
Bluelighter
Mianserin is far better.
Tianeptine never did anything good to me....
Mianserin, on the other hand is one of my fav antidepressants. Tetracyclics (Mianserin, Mirtazapine, Maprotiline, Trazodone) are the best.
It makes you really drowsy during the first days and also constantly hungry (like Mirtazapine)
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
Are you speaking strictly as an antidepressant, or one with recreational potential?
It's really interesting that it has some mu-activity. I wouldn't have guessed looking at the structure
LuxEtVeritas
Bluelighter
Some seem to love Tianeptine (though more for a chronic elevation i believe, not really ther more acute effect most desire from true recs) and others it just does not do much of anything
so it seems to be a winner for those who have the right chemistry to 'enjoy' it, but apparently do not
Ham-milton said:
those studies were very poorly done in my opinion, and i dont believe them at all.
they gave rats (or what ever) Mianserin, which is a real downer, then Naloxone, which increased pain signals, and then deduct that it activates opiate receptors !
There are many better 'tests' to determine if drugs activate opiate receptors.
and i would NOT take mianserin as an opiate substitute (i have personally tried it at least 20 times my self - not as an opiate substitute thou. I found it good for comming off MDMA)
It is a strong h1 antagonist, and seratonin 2 blocker, and alpha blocker, and blocks lots of other receptors, so it has MANY side effects.
Most good opiates are BANNED or CONTROLLED
Crimethink
Bluelighter
The Drug Mianserin and 6-Aza-Mianserin(Mirtazapine appear devoid of clinically relevant agonist activity. The effect you mentioned occurs with virtually all tested SSR(N)I antidepressants and has helped lend creedence to an opioidergic theory of depression(though this re-regulation/NT increase happens in many other neurotransmitter sys.)
Apparently Mianserin and 6-Aza-Mianserin mediate their opioidergic analgesia via mu and kappa 3.
For contrast/comparison Venlafaxine mediated the above effect through mu, kappa 1, kappa 3 and delta-opioid receptor subtypes.
To further lend credibility to the SSRI - opioid theory while low-high doses of naltrexone antagonize the analgesia ULD Naloxone potentiates it. As well tolerance develops to the analgesia of SSRIs which ULDNX abolishes.
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From the literature Mianserin and Mirtazapine produce increased analgesia when combined with standard SSRI's. The combo also produces greater and more sustained activation of the 5 HT1a receptor- critical in Antidepressant effect, and anxiolysis.
Also for those that don't like the side effects of the various SSRI's (anxiety, mood, sexual, nausea or otherwise) Mirtazapine / Mianserin will generally abolish them by blocking the 5HT2a and 5HT3 receptor where they are mediated.
--There have been a few isolated reports of Tianeptine abuse but for the most part this is a long term thing...if it works and you can wait it's cool to wake up each day knowing you'll feel better than well, sure you can't pop 5 more and feel even better but hey...
Riemann Zeta
Bluelighter
I really doubt all of the antidepressant/opioid rumours out there. Doubtless, antidepressants with noradrenergic effects (such as the TCAs desipramine, imipramine and nortriptyline, venlafaxine and duloxetine) have their own analgesic effect. That is why they show decent (not complete) effects in neuropathic pain. This might be due to downstream interaction btw the noradrenergic system and opioidergic neurons, but I don't think it's due to any direct opioid effect.
