Mexico Signals It's Had Enough of America's Stupid War on Drugs

Yeah and look what they have done to many countries, Columbia, Mexico, Afghanistan are in pieces because of them.
 
phrozen said:
"if we hadn't called it a war to begin with, could we admit that we're not winning?"
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I really liked the final sentence of that article and it reminded me of a line from "The Wire" which I think is:

"So you know they call this a War on Drugs"?

"Yeah, so?"

"Well, war's end." :\
 
rolls said:
Yeah and look what they have done to many countries, Columbia, Mexico, Afghanistan are in pieces because of them.
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No, they are in pieces because of the counterproductive drugs laws that have created a huge profit margins that allow criminal gangs to flourish.
 
rolls said:
Yeah and look what they have done to many countries, Columbia, Mexico, Afghanistan are in pieces because of them.
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Legalization didn't cause that. Yes, counterproductive drug laws that enrich criminal trade are part of it, as well as our invasive military operations where all human rights and common sense were thrown out the window in order to battle this 'war on drugs', and it didn't do shit but ruin the infrastructure of those countries and leave it open for control by whoever had the power and money. Mexico not so much yet, as we had a puppet in office willing to do what we said.

And drugs sell for ridiculous black market prices in countries where they are illegal, so those with their hands on that natural resource are usually able to gain some major power. Having drugs illegal is what is CONTINUING this mess. If there wasn't such a lucrative draw to the black market of ILLEGAL drugs, then these desperate bombed and shot people wouldn't be trading in violence and guns as well as a prolific natural resource of their country. It would be a standardized legal export, taxed and tested for quality.

This should upset those who stand to benefit from the profit of illegal drugs, and it may take some time for adjustment, but, after prohibition, the mob stopped dealing in alcohol once everyone could buy it at the bar and there was a flood on the market. But we had the factories and distilleries from years before ready to go.
I guess we're just waiting for the CIA or whoever to develop the internal capabilities to manufacture these substances in large enough quantities so no other countries would have an export that we we're dependent on?
 
as well as our invasive military operations where all human rights and common sense were thrown out the window in order to battle this 'war on drugs', and it didn't do shit but ruin the infrastructure of those countries and leave it open for control by whoever had the power and money.
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Ba-zing. Same exact story with the "war on terror." Instead of stopping to think and then acting in a targeted, selective and intelligent manner, what did the US do? Threw common sense out the window, repealed most of the civil liberties of the constitution, engaged in a public propaganda campaign and started bombing the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, creating a power vacuum in those countries--the perfect breeding ground for mercenaries, militants and new terrorists. Just like with the "war on drugs," the government's reactionary unilateral stupidity created a massive clusterfuck and ended up making the situation worse for everyone.

I mean, the "war on drugs" is mainly a war on the personal freedoms of otherwise law-abiding, tax-paying American citizens, a war that has solely benefited organized crime and has caused exponentially more damage than it has prevented. Likewise, the "war on terror" is mainly a war on individual civil liberties of American citizens, a war that has created more new terrorists than it has expunged. One would think that we would learn from these repeated fuckups...but no, not with corrupt idiots at the helm in Washington.
 
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Newmoonrecord said:
hasnt calderon called for this before?? i thought he did and like, the US threatened to cut off all border trade.
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Not that I know of.
Presidente Fox DID do this - he helped write the legislation - then, after meeting with Bush in the US, vetoed the bill that passed with a wide margin.

Calderon escalated the "war" by utilizing the military openly - waging war directly between the citizens attempting to protect their property from governmental seizures, and the government seeking to control all property in a communistic manner.

Obama, in his speech about Latin America in Miami, endorsed P. Calderon's open warfare - and said that he would set new records for seizures, arrests, and focus on ensuring even prosecution and punishments.

McCain's position is, "War? HELL YEAH!" - no matter what the war is upon, so his position is pretty much irrelevant in this context.
 
^^ The big mistake (apart of drugs being ilegal) is that Fox disolved intelligence services (SIEDO, CISEN), he wanted PRI out of there, so this new inexpierenced people loose the control or any political arregement they had with cartels.

Fox and calderon have been supporting Chapo's guzman cartel this has caused the other cartels to respond so violently.

But at least legalization has been appearing a lot in the media lately and formal proposals are being made.

I really hope we might seen some advance before the end of this administration.
 
rolls said:
Yeah and look what they have done to many countries, Columbia, Mexico, Afghanistan are in pieces because of them.
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those countries are in pieces because of the raging drug war. if drugs were legal, we wouldn't be spending billions on military vehicles and weapons and personnel to ship to those country, and the countries wouldnt be ruled by ruthless paramilitaries and such
 
and the government seeking to control all property in a communistic manner.
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actually it's an attempt to control the citizens' cognitive faculties and is a form of fascism

communistic things like welfare are actually great services
I guess we're just waiting for the CIA or whoever to develop the internal capabilities to manufacture these substances in large enough quantities so no other countries would have an export that we we're dependent on?
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nope, we just have a religious right with too much influence on mainstream policy decisions. we are a country founded by anti-pleasure pilgrims, and this has caused a lot of problems, like witches being caught on fire and free thinkers having their books burned (right after our nation officially declares book burning as one of the atrocities of the nazi regime no less)
50mg's of pure h= enough to get off

40mg's of D amphetamine well 45 sense there 15mg pills= ALOT.
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the gov't doesnt take cuts into account, so for end users getting cut drugs, these limits are practically criminalization in disguise

a good dose of amphetamine is 20-40mg for a nontolerant user, and for heroin, 5-30mg for a nontolerant user. in both cases, the drugs will be cut by a lot, so having just one single dose could put you over the limit
 
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It really is unfortunate that America has such a difficult time in making changes that the people favor. It's pretty sad. I realize that changing something would effect an entire country but jesus christ, if something isn't working, common logic would mean you make the necessary changes to solve that problem. I wonder when we will make some beneficial changes for the better of our country.
 
kevz said:
It really is unfortunate that America has such a difficult time in making changes that the people favor. It's pretty sad. I realize that changing something would effect an entire country but jesus christ, if something isn't working, common logic would mean you make the necessary changes to solve that problem. I wonder when we will make some beneficial changes for the better of our country.
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The system is working GREAT, private prisons are making money hand over fist, rehabs are raking in the cash from involuntary patients sent from court, police are seizing record amounts of property, the dealers have a product with massive profit margins, manufacturers of SWAT gear and military hardware get nice fat contracts.

The problem is you are looking at things from the point of view of your common drug user and their families, they are not the people the system is set up to benefit.
 
If you want legalization or decriminalization Ron Paul is the way to go. Obama wants to starts more anti-drug programs. Even if Ron Paul won't win it is not a vote wasted it still states your opinion that hemp should be industrialized and marijuana decriminalized. Ron Paul openly admits the War on Drugs is a huge failure. Is anyone else speaking up and telling the truth?
 
Well, FYI, Ron Paul is no longer running. Bob Barr is in his place, and while he doesn't want to kill the FDR quite like Ron Paul, he does have a similar approach to drug policy.
 
Here in Mexico the topic of legalization is very hot, some congressman are speaking about it and some proppossed had been made, at least its in the public debate as a serious alternative, even the rpesident say he wasnt afraid of talking about it and that in last resort is the way to go.

But he also stated that if USA dont legalize them it would be almost useless to mexico to legalize alone, which I fear is truth.

there's a very interesting report from a comission on US senate, 2003 I think, which was responsible to evaluate the policy , they concluded that the data produced to assest programs impact want not reliable... The president of the comission declared in public "the war on drugs has no interest in its own results".
 
driveme2phrenzy said:
If you want legalization or decriminalization Ron Paul is the way to go. Obama wants to starts more anti-drug programs. Even if Ron Paul won't win it is not a vote wasted it still states your opinion that hemp should be industrialized and marijuana decriminalized. Ron Paul openly admits the War on Drugs is a huge failure. Is anyone else speaking up and telling the truth?
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Obama also states "The US War on Drugs has been a miserable failure," although he's not for the legalization of marijuana he is open "to discuss," new opitions on how to combat America's Drugs problems other than financial tourture and cages.... OBAMA 08!!!! Although I should vote green party or ron paul, they have no chance in winning. Sucks, but I"m still thinkin going green.
 
Although I should vote green party or ron paul, they have no chance in winning.
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Indeed. Perhaps in other elections, one could afford to be ideological, rather than taking the practical step of voting for the lesser of two evils. But one look at the 200 year old "back in my day" McCain and the just-left-of-Mussolini bible-thumpin', science-bashin', moose-huntin' yokel Palin and the imperative becomes crystal clear.

"America, look at your beloved candidates: they're nothing but hideous space reptiles from beyond the moon."
"It's true, we are aliens...but what are you going to do about it, it's a two-party system--you have to vote for one of us!"
"Well, I believe I will vote for a 3rd party candidate."
"Go ahead, throw your vote away!"
 
^ ah lulz
And now zeitgeist...
I think im going to save that description of Palin for future conversations if you dont mind??
I smell mods.
Mexico Mexico Mexico!!!
 
I think its clear here: The only real solution is violence. Scare the fucking shit out of the government and make them change their minds.
 
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