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methoxetamine + MAOI

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devilinthemoon

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Oct 23, 2010
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I started taking parnate because I have been dealing with some severe depression and normal antidepressants just wont cut it.

I can deal without eating cheese if that means the darkness will lift for once in my life, but I am concerned about some meds.

I wanted to give MXE a try, and was wondering if this will be ok? I know some people actually mix MAOI with psychadelics to poteniate them i guess? But, I also know dissociative likes DXM is a sure death sentence in large doses with what I am taking.

Also, how about aMT anyone combined a MAOI with it. I know MAOI's + MAOI are contradicted but isn't amt not a true MAOI?

thanks
 
I would think AMT is contraindicated (not a good idea) because of it's effect on monoamines.
AMT is a serotonergic psychedelic but if I am not mistaken also a monoamine releaser, it's MAOI properties should be primarily competitive (something like amphetamine but probably a little stronger)

Methoxetamine does not act directly on monoamines AFAIK and isn't even a proper (serotonergic) psychedelic. It's a dissociative which I guess is focussed on NMDA antagonism. It might be a problem that this mechanism of action indirectly affects your monoamine balances and that might pose a problem even though it seems unlikely to me if it were significant --- I would be surprised if there is much known about Parnate + ketamine or Parnate + MXE, I try to make educated guesses.
DXM is dangerous because it has serotonergic effects and with a MAOI it can cause serotonin syndrome as well as hyperthermia for a slightly different reason.

For what it's worth:
Ketamine is safe to use with a MAOI [click here]

But methoxetamine is not ketamine and I would never want you to take my word for it that you can just go ahead.
And if you insist on doing anything like this that could be dangerous start extremely low and keep an eye out for any toxic or adverse effects

This should probably go to the ADD forum and I would definitely not go ahead until other people have taken a thorough look at your question.

I am not a medical doctor, just like you can't get a diagnose from a friend who knows medicine and anatomy somewhat better than you do yourself it's not wise to do something potentially dangerous based on 1 post.
 
Ok, since I am not getting any answers here maybe a mod can move it too ADD

I am really wanting to know what drugs I can do with a MAOI in my system they say narcotics are contradicted but, bupe is fine even oxy is just can't have things like tramadol, or demerol because one raises seretonin and other is part anti-histamine which interact badly same thing with darvon (which all are crappy opiates anyways)

As far is stimulants coke hard/soft is a no go, I don't touch meth but that would be bad same thing with ephedrine. I actually successfully mixed a MAOI, nardil with Ritalin and Adderall after reading that it was given to TRD patients, but nardil is a little more forgiving than parnate so I don't think I can touch the ritalin, anyone sure on that?

Too bad no one know about MXE. I would really love to try some metho-x without having to risk seretonin syndrome or some crazy shit like that.

The only psychedelic that I believe is possible is DMT since DMT and MAOI go together like peas and a pod.. I think? I might try to extract from bark root. And I am guessing my MAOI would help me with my research, since people use MAOI's so the body can ingest the substance in the stomache. But, this is not some herbal remedy this is a full on irreversible MAOI, and I am not sure it has been done before, that is mixing a pharmaceutical MAOI with DMT or 5-MEO-DMT. If it has been done I sure would like to know. Sometimes I wonder if this is not such a good idea because isn't DMT structurally related to 5HT (seretonin)?


Any other drugs out there I can take? I want to try mostly psychedelic(shrooms, dmt, acid), dissociatives (ket, pcp), and intresting RC's(5-meo-pcp, Mxe, 2cx).. I take my daily dose of lyrica and valium/klonopin/xanax but that is getting very boring. I do like to do coke sometimes which is scary I was going to get some today but even though the half life with this stuff is only like 24 hours, most people suggest washout periods for days, and weeks just for switching too another antidepressant. The drug must clear your system, but the MAO must stay inhibited.

So, if I can't take drugs because of this antidepressant, I must find the right amount of days I have to quit before dosing. This is going to be potentially dangerous, but hopefully by reading/researching getting opinion I can reduce some harm to a minimum.

Thanks!
 
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You're trying a combination of two drugs which are basically unknown, but both have rather narrow safety margins and can prove quite lethal in overdose. Therefore, I highly suggest you start with sub-threshold doses of both compounds, and titrate the dosage upwards slowly, with adequate time in between dosages. A combination of drugs such as these ought to be treated with similar respect as an entirely new compound.

While the psychedelics have a rather established safety profile, the stimulants (including AMT) and the dissociatives do not and are in fact known to be rather dangerous. This makes unknown combinations far riskier than combining psychedelics with cannabis or with each other.
 
aMT is 100% NOT OKAY, not even a little bit.

There is no specific issue with combining MAOI's with other MAOI's (assuming both chemicals only act as MAOI's and do nothing else). If your monoamine oxidase is all inactive because it's got parnate covalently bonded to it, what's the other MAOI going to do?

The problem is combining MAOI's with releasers/reuptake inhibitors, because the levels of monoamine neurotransmitters are increase, and you can't take it back up (because most releasers also inhibit reuptake), and there's no MAO to break it down, so it very rapidly (the timescale is ridiculously short with things like this) builds up and you go into a hypertensive crisis and die.

aMT is a triple release agent, and so it's a no-go for combining with an MAOI, and DXM is a reuptake inhibitor.

The other problem is combining MAOI's with drugs that are themselves broken down by MAOIs. This can cause very strong effects off of very small doses. There are several accounts of selegine + low doses of 2C's making people black out, vomit, etc, all while completely out of touch with reality yet entirely capable of physical movement (which would often result in injury). With care, this can be used to potentiate psychedelics (to make DMT orally active, or potentiate Psilocin/shrooms), but it should not be done without exceptional care. I would never use it just to save some money on mushrooms, for example, which apparently some people do.

I'm not sure about methoxetamine. The first thing to compare it to is ketamine, but that's not the whole story, because while we know ket doesn't release/reuptake-inhibit anything (AFAIK and according to the other poster), we don't know that about methoxetamine.

Generally speaking, if you're on an MAOI, you can't mess with recreational drugs.
 
TheAzo said:
aMT is 100% NOT OKAY, not even a little bit.

There is no specific issue with combining MAOI's with other MAOI's (assuming both chemicals only act as MAOI's and do nothing else). If your monoamine oxidase is all inactive because it's got parnate covalently bonded to it, what's the other MAOI going to do?

The problem is combining MAOI's with releasers/reuptake inhibitors, because the levels of monoamine neurotransmitters are increase, and you can't take it back up (because most releasers also inhibit reuptake), and there's no MAO to break it down, so it very rapidly (the timescale is ridiculously short with things like this) builds up and you go into a hypertensive crisis and die.

aMT is a triple release agent, and so it's a no-go for combining with an MAOI, and DXM is a reuptake inhibitor.

The other problem is combining MAOI's with drugs that are themselves broken down by MAOIs. This can cause very strong effects off of very small doses. There are several accounts of selegine + low doses of 2C's making people black out, vomit, etc, all while completely out of touch with reality yet entirely capable of physical movement (which would often result in injury). With care, this can be used to potentiate psychedelics (to make DMT orally active, or potentiate Psilocin/shrooms), but it should not be done without exceptional care. I would never use it just to save some money on mushrooms, for example, which apparently some people do.

I'm not sure about methoxetamine. The first thing to compare it to is ketamine, but that's not the whole story, because while we know ket doesn't release/reuptake-inhibit anything (AFAIK and according to the other poster), we don't know that about methoxetamine.

Generally speaking, if you're on an MAOI, you can't mess with recreational drugs.
Click to expand...

ketamine has dopamine reuptake inhibiting properties. mix it with an maoi and you might end up with a lot of dopamine floating around
 
TheAzo said:
Generally speaking, if you're on an MAOI, you can't mess with recreational drugs.
Click to expand...

Well hey, hey, being on a MAOI is not a death sentence everyone think it is, your allowed to take pretty much the same boring recreational drugs an every day joe would do- minus a couple opiates, red wine and tap beer, but I don't drink much anyways.

Just some certain things to stay away from like coke, and some psychedelics which I could just obstain from the parnate for a week or so to have some fun just like a bupe user quits bupe a week to use herion.

Anyways, I find parnate to have stimulating recorational effects on like any other antidepressant in the world. I was going to actually do a trip report after taking a double dose the other day, but I am so tired from staying up but this stuff was intense just like any other stim I have taken, pretty euphoric actually too my heart was beating out my chest and it felt like all the neurons in my heads were being "lit up" and i was getting "woowoo" moments like I was taking whippets which I dont get on oral speed. Really weird, but actually enjoyable at time.. but right now I am suffering pretty bad for getting no sleep and my head feel like its going to pop so I willl talk about this stuff later.

Anyways I have some methylone and Amt on the way, I havent tried either, and was wondering if seven days should be fine before I dose?
 
I know you dont want to hear it, but If you are having such a debilitating depression that you are having to resort to this medication to deal with, I think you should probably take a break from psychedelics and especially stimulants.

I know its dangerous enough mixing reversible mao inhibitors with most drugs, I would wait around a month from cessation of the MAOI before taking ANY stimulants OR psychedlics....

At least I say to stay away, but I would probably cave in and try low doses sooner than that.

Do as I say, not as I do.
 
I dont use much stimulants or psychs I am new to this all.

All I really want to do is sample my methoxetamine and amt that is supposed to be on the way.

And, I am sorry but some stims on even Irreversabile Maoi's such as nardil and Maoi have been proven completley safe. There is a lot of information about these two combos on the dr bob board. They have been using stimulants + Maoi's for TRD for over 40 years. Ritalin is supposed to be completly safe because it does not release serotonin its effects more noradernaline. But, amphetamine on the other hand, while still used even today by doctors that are knowledgeable about MAOI's is not as safe and has caused some death. I used adderall on nardil before but wont touch it on parnate because its a little more sensetive and more bound to cause hypertensive crisis in people from what I read.

As long as MXE does not release mass amounts of seretonin does not release too much dopamine, like mdma and coke do...or is not a maoi like aMT I do not see why it would be unsafe to use, but that is why I am asking you guys.
 
hah, hello fellow drbobite. Yes, the generalizations people make about MAOIs are quite annoying. Have you read Elizabeth's db post about empirically-based MAOI interactions? It's incredibly well-written, I miss reading her posts.

Anyway, methoxetamine may cause some issues with Parnate. I've combined methylphenidate and amphetamine with MAOIs under medical supervision. You're correct, there's a lot of research to support the combination's efficacy and safety; but you need to be cautious about titrating the dosages of each. Same thing here except you're adding a virtually unknown drug into the mix. That's not a judgement in the least. When I was taking MAOIs regularly my attitude was more "don't take anything that will cause serious irreparable damage but if it kills you, that's fine." Actually, that's still my attitude.

So..... harm reduction? Serotonin syndrome is a very real consequence of some MAOI interactions and it's not at all pleasant. Nor is hypertensive crisis, but there is a little more wiggle room there; it goes from "I have a headache" to "I think my brain is bleeding" to "I've died" depending on what you take, how much you take and what you do about it.

It's been a month I think, so you've probably already taken it. How did it go? I had a spike in BP from mixing aMT (which may have MAOI properties) and methoxetamine so I'm hoping you took a MAOI holiday beforehand. (14 days is the accepted time for full MAO regeneration but it's based less on research than on avoiding lawsuits.)
 
Serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine. Hence triple release agent.
 
On combining a pharmaceutical MAOI with DMT: I have read about this being referred to as "pharmahuasca". I think it has been done successfully with moclobemide, but not any of those you mentioned in your posts. I highly doubt that DMT would be dangerous though, even in combination with a MAOI.
 
Pharmahuasca doesn't mean using a pharma MAOI necessarily, but rather just using extracts (dmt+ harmalas), perhaps in a gel cap.

I've done moclobemide and DMT and it was an absolutely horrific soul-raping that felt like an eternity... and my memory of it was quite good. Ayahuasca is the very opposite, feels like heaven. If you are going to experiment with dmt + moc or any other pharma MAOI, please use very small doses of DMT, like 10-20mg, and go up by 5-10mg if you wish.
 
Ketamine has been shown in studies to affect levels of both Dopamine and Serotonin, I believe it's a reuptake inhibitor rather than a releaser for both. It's actions on both are rather mild though so I can understand why few, if any people have had any bad interactions with Ketamine + an MAOI. That said, I'm a cautious person so personally I'd give it a miss, there are plenty of other drugs out there, why take the risk?

Methoxetamine's action isn't yet completely known but we suspect it to be a Dopamine reuptake inhibitor too, probably also a Serotonin reuptake inhibitor like DXM and Ketamine. Once again though, I'm not sure if the amount at which it does this would be dangerous in combination - but the fact is we honestly can't say, so if you must go with either, I'd use Ketamine and avoid MXE until more is known - but personally I'd avoid either mix.

Hope this helps :)
 
For what it's worth, I have ingested loads of methoxetamine in a few month span while on the MAOI antidepressant moclobemide and survived... Though it should be noted parnate is an irreversible MAO inhibitor while moclobemide is reversible (with fewer dietary interactions etc)!
 
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why not just stop taking the maoi for depression then use mxe, it lifts depression itself.
 
^ Please avoid advising self medication here. I understand the potential benefits if done correctly, but it can be very dangerous and lead to abuse - and when you're referring to a chemical that hasn't been studied, this is even more dangerous as we really don't know the long term side-effects yet.
 
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