Stimulants Methamp. Dust/Transformation?/ Attn : Aspiring or Actual Chemists

[rocketqueen]

So we all know that the process of cooking meth is bad for the surrounding environment. But what about for the smokers (the ones that do not cook)? When a smoker blows out the hit, are they making their home environment toxic with methamp. "residue?" Or do the lungs "purify" or "detoxify" the active ingredients in the methamp., which means one is blowing out..just smoke/vapor?

This second question, read carefully, the answer is not so obvious. At least to me and everyone I have asked.

Second question (to kill two birds with one stone): when a person bakes a cake it is generally comprised of sugar, flour, and eggs. Then you put prolonged heat on those ingredients and you have cake. However, when the cake is eaten it is still recognized and digested by the body as eggs, sugar and flour. So, can we apply this to the production of meth? When one does meth, is the user consuming kerosene, ephedrine, phosphorous, and drain cleaner (assuming that is the ingredients the cook used) OR are they consuming something that has undergone such profound changes at the molecular level that the body recognizes only... methamphetamine? Instead of the harsh chemicals used to make it?

 

[\/apor]

I think the act of cooking mixes all the different types of chems via synthesis to CREATE meth, when you mix ingredients in a cake mix your making a goop comprised of eggs flour, etc, your not combining eggs and flour at a molecular level to make cake, it's more complicated than that.

 

[michael_1992]

if one does a reaction correct, there should not be any of this stuff in the final reaction. its not like baking a cake. The chemicals have been altered. However , i wouldnt inject it or anything like that either, cause meth is not a very pure drug.

All drain cleaner is is sodium hydroxide, and in order to get the hydrochloride (or occassionally sulfate) salt of meth to precipitate from the non-polar solvent in manufacture, the conditions must be acidic and not basic (you wont get sodium hydroxide drain cleaner in the final product) . You wont get drain cleaner in your final product unless the person had no clue what they were doing.

 

[onepot]

To be honest, manufacturing meth isn't as dangerous as people usually think. The most dangerous chemicals used are the large number of solvents, which are needed to separate the pseudoephedrine from the pill fillers. Once pseudoephedrine is obtained in a more pure form, it's reduced, either with iodine and phosphorus, or with liquid ammonia and lithium. None of these are particularly toxic, although if the reaction mixture is overheated, phosphorus can give off phosphine gas, which is toxic.

As far as what street meth is, there's often a fair amount of unreduced pseudoephedrine in there, which is the starting material. If it's orangish-brown, that often means it has some iodoephedrine in it, which is the partially-reduced form. This stuff can be moderately toxic, and if it's present, it usually results in a lot of jaw-clenching.

Methamphetamine is usually separated from the reactants via an acid-base separation, which leaves behind the phosphorus, iodine, and other crap. It is usually dissolved in some non-polar solvent like kerosene or toluene, which would evaporate before it was sold.

The two chemicals that are often found in street meth that you really need to watch out for are iodoephedrine and residual hydrochloric acid. If you've ever used street meth that seemed unusually sour, or acidic, this is often the result of there being hydrochloric acid bound to the small amount of moisture present in meth. This isn't particularly toxic, but it can destroy your teeth.

If you want to purify street meth of the commonly-found toxins in it, the easiest way is to rinse it with acetone, then let it dry. Methamphetamine hydrochloride is insoluble in acetone, but iodoephedrine and hydrochloric acid and a large number of other impurities will dissolve away. Just put the stuff in a small glass (NOT plastic, acetone dissolves some plastics) container, add some acetone, swish it around, pour off the acetone, and let it dry.

 

[rocketqueen]

@Vapor, so I used a very bad analogy?

@Michael, so when I tell ppl that all that crap used to "make" meth is not going in my system, that is a 100% true statement?

@onepot, so there is a good test out for the quality of the meth one gets? And I am not aware of where pure acetone is sold, and I do not think that my nail polish remover qualifies!

So a good and easy way to save your teeth is to put meth that is still "wet" on a thick piece of paper? Are the "stains" it leaves when it dries hydrochloric acid or a rough approximation thereof?

I have never seen orange ice but light blue most definitely. And no problems there. Yes on the acidic meth - it makes fever blisters in your mouth and your tongue feels scalded if enough is smoked.

 

[onepot]

Acetone is sold in hardware stores with the paint solvents. It's also sold as a fiberglass thinner in auto body stores. You can buy a quart for like $5-7. It's very flammable, but very low toxicity (similar to rubbing alcohol), and it evaporates quickly. To save your teeth, acetone is probably your best bet, but dissolving in vodka and then just letting the vodka evaporate is better than nothing.

I'm not sure what light blue meth is. Probably someone adding blue food coloring to make it look like the stuff in Breaking Bad.

Phosphorus, drain cleaner, and solvents should not be present in meth unless whoever made it is absolutely terrible at what they do, which admittedly is always a possibility.

When you bake a cake, you're getting a mixture of very many different chemicals, ie, sugars, proteins, starches, etc., whereas when making meth, you are only trying to get one chemical: methamphetamine hydrochloride. Very different process that involves a lot of separating substances due to differing chemical properties.

 

[rocketqueen]

@Onepot, thankx for getting back with me. So after I score I just dump the shards into an 8 oz. glass of acetone? Then what? How to filter the meth/acetone concoction? BTW, I only score about a half gram a week. Is such a small amount still worth filtering?

I have season 1 of Breaking Bad. I need to queue it up and watch it, especially since Stephen King sez so. Is there light blue meth in that show somewheres? Why is it light blue in the show? Did you like BB? Would you recommend it?

 

[tricomb]

yes i'd say it's worth washing.

and breaking bad is a pretty good show! I think they make "blue" meth when they start to use Methylamine instead of P2P method.

 

[littlepenguin]

imho, if you are only using .5 g x week, I wouldn't bother washing it unless it's really crappy stuff. If it's super chunky and shardy and glass looking, I would not wash it. If it's all powder, I would definitely wash it. It's harder to use "cut" with the big chunks, easier to throw it in with the powder and tiny shards. The yield of your product after washing is definitely smaller than what you started out with, so don't be surprised when your .5 g turns into ~0.25g :/ unless you're getting some primo shit...

In reference to your second question about the cake, I don't think your body really breaks it down as "hmmm this is egg in here, and oh theres some flour, and some sugar yum yum..." it's like "glutens - fats - H2O - moar glutens!!! - CO2 - MOAR FATTTTTY!!!- NaCl - gluteennnnnnsss "

Here is the exact science of what chemistry reactions happen when you bake a cake: very interesting, imo
http://nzic.org.nz/ChemProcesses/food/6D.pdf


so yeah, baking a cake could be compared to cooking meth on the scale that yeah - they both involve chemical reactions that take original products and chemical bonds change these originals into new products. So no, you're not smoking drain cleaner, or whatever the original products are in the cook (unless they did a shitty cooking job) are not what your body is thinking. It's thinking, "mmmmmmmmm, I'm about to walk on sunshine again baby!" aka "mmmmmethhhhhhhhhhamphetamineeeeee"

 

[OTGee]

You can buy acetone at wal mart if your in the US and at asda if your in the UK. Other hardware shops or just shops that are suspect to have anything to do with hardware or beauty and nails and shit normally stock it, theres plenty of legal reasons to want it as well. Check pharamacy sections of supermarkets as well and some chemists stock it although usually just for prescription. So trust me, its pretty easy to find and its going to cost next to nothing.

 

[klifjump]

If I'm correct...,

@Onepot, thankx for getting back with me. So after I score I just dump the shards into an 8 oz. glass of acetone? Then what? How to filter the meth/acetone concoction? BTW, I only score about a half gram a week. Is such a small amount still worth filtering?

I think the answer you were looking for would be "Yes. You would just let the solution of drug/Acetone "evaporate" off. No additional steps would be required for prep.
Then, I'm gonna try the "cake!"

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Smoked methamphetamine is disgusting; there is a reason why I would only IV that stuff, and I wouldn't ever use the drug again to be honest.

Assuming the methamphetamine you are using has impurities, then yeah, smoking it could leave toxic by products in your home. If you are getting 100% pure d-methamphetamine, I wouldn't mind vaporizing it. It's still not the best way to consume methamphetamine in my opinion, but that's better left said for a different thread.

 

[onepot]

Smoking methamphetamine is probably the most addictive way to do it, second to IV, but it does have the advantage of inherently separating the part you want from a lot of what you don't. For example, if there was drain cleaner or sulfuric acid in your meth, for some reason, smoking it would leave behind all that shit, since none of that can be vaporized. Of course you would run the risk of chemically modifying your drugs via pyrolysis.

To clean meth, you would just add a small amount of acetone, swish it around, pour off as much of the acetone as possible, then let the rest dry. Now, pure methamphetamine hydrochloride is insoluble in pure acetone, however, hardware store acetone is probably not 100% pure, so a very small amount of meth would dissolve in it if there was any water present. Thus, you would only want to use as little acetone as possible. Also, only use acetone that comes in a metal container (most does) because this keeps out moisture, and never leave the cap off the can for any length of time, since this can make it pick up moisture from the air.

Breaking Bad is a good show, and I could see why Steven King would like it. Lot of freaky gruesome shit goes on in that show. They don't get the science completely right, but then, you wouldn't expect them to. They're not trying to start instructional videos on starting a meth lab, after all. And yeah, once they start making it with P2P and methylamine rather than from pseudoephedrine, it turns blue. In reality, it would be a white powder if Walter was as concerned with purity as he is on the show. ie, blue meth is impure meth. Also, it would not form crystals if it was made by that method, but I guess it's more fun to assume Walter is such a genius he discovered a chirally selective method of reductive amination.

 

[sekio]

We dont need this to become a dick-waving "my meth is better than yours and all others are liars" contest. Keep the discussion to the topic please.

Smoked methamphetamine is known to e.g. degrade and polymerize in a wide variety of ways depending on purity and how intense the heat is. As said, sometimes there's an excess of HCl which can be rather nasty to smoke.

 

[rocketqueen]

Breaking Bad is a good show, and I could see why Steven King would like it. Lot of freaky gruesome shit goes on in that show. They don't get the science completely right, but then, you wouldn't expect them to. They're not trying to start instructional videos on starting a meth lab, after all. And yeah, once they start making it with P2P and methylamine rather than from pseudoephedrine, it turns blue. In reality, it would be a white powder if Walter was as concerned with purity as he is on the show. ie, blue meth is impure meth. Also, it would not form crystals if it was made by that method, but I guess it's more fun to assume Walter is such a genius he discovered a chirally selective method of reductive amination.

Freaky & Gruesome? I am TOTALLY on board. Guess you can tell a lot about a gal by her favorite authors...Ann Rule being number 2 on the favorite authors list. It does not get much freakier than real life and the things that human beings do to each other.

Ya, I understood your last sentence (!) Didn't get what the mod was bitching about, tho', no one's cock is out here - I don't have one. lmao

As far as hardware acetone, if I purchase some acetone that says 100% acetone you are telling me that it is NOT 100% pure acetone? Also, when you say "a little" acetone, could you be more specific? Like three drops? A teaspoon? How long does the evaporation process take place? I do not want to wait three hours to fire up a bowl. And I found a LEGITIMATE study done on "Smoking Methamp. and Area Surface Contamination." They concluded that living where meth is SMOKED not COOKED can contaminate a CHILD(REN) and cause said children to test positive for the drug. They said nothing about animals, though, unfortunately.

Ok I am going to throw on BB. I am assuming that the instructions for how to build a meth lab are in the liner of the DVD set. ;-)

 

[sekio]

I used my magical mod powers to put the penis back in everyone's pants where it belongs... that said - Breaking Bad is fiction. Good fiction at that (at least i thought the first 2 seasons were pretty good). There are a lot of tropes that have been blown totally out of proportion due to BB. Not everything in Breaking Bad is 1:1 correlation with reality.

Some hardware store acetone can have metal residues in it, check by evaporating some on a glass or china plate. Most of it will be pretty good though.

To be totally honest, methamphetamine is absorbed incredibly well orally. I see no reason to go to smoking or needles, but then again, i'm not an amp-head.

 

[rocketqueen]

^sekio, forgive me for being a tad salty when a portion of the thread is cut and I have no clue as to what went down or what was said. More specifically, what I said that was snipped. If I never learn what the problem is/was I cannot address it appropriately. I made some smart comment about "primo shit" and that I believe the ice in TX comes from a super lab in Mexico. I do not remember mentioning that I felt I got high quality shit (Mexico is NOT high quality) or trying to one up anyone on quality, just scoffing on more of the "primo shit" I hear about.

Well, I shall take BB for what it is: a hollywood creation made for the purposes of entertainment and drama, not an instructional or educational video. But I shall spin that shit now and I hope I enjoy it. I hear that season 3 is killer.

When you speak of evaporation, would you PLEASE be more specific? How do you encourage something to evaporate? How long does it take? I keep my house supercold (guess why) so would temperature effect evaporation?

I see no reason to go to oral consumption as I would miss the fun of blowing smoke in people's faces. lol jk

 

[onepot]

Yeah, if I had to start over again, I would only go orally, but I ended up getting too attached to smoking it. I always cleaned my stuff with acetone, which got rid of the HCl, so I never had a problem with my teeth getting messed up.

To be as specific as I can, hardware store acetone is pure enough for your purposes, so don't worry about that. Basically, put the shards in the glass, add acetone so it just barely covers the crystals, then swish it around and pour off as much liquid as you can. You can scrape the crystals out and let them dry, or just let them dry in the glass. They will dry fairly quickly in any case. Acetone has a really low boiling point, so if you blow a fan over it or put it somewhere warm, it'll dry out in 5-10 minutes. Give it a half hour if you really want to be safe. But again, acetone is not toxic, and in fact it's found in your body as a product of protein metabolism. The only danger is from your meth catching on fire if you try and smoke it, since it is quite flammable.

I've poured boiling acetone on myself before, and it's hot, but doesn't burn you. It actually is really hot right when it hits your skin, then gets cold as soon as it evaporates.

And yes, when you smoke methamphetamine, the vapor does go out and contaminate the surroundings, but it's not like it's more toxic than, for instance, the chemicals that make up "new car smell", or even the black part of burnt meat. This is what bugs me most about all the drug propaganda out there; people have NO concept of proportionality.

 

[rocketqueen]

@onepot, I am seriously beginning to wonder if the meth propaganda is just bullshit. Unless the "Faces of Meth" campaign is using VERY extreme examples of ppl that are COMPLETELY spun out. If I slammed a gram or so of meth a day would I look like they do in a year or so? The ONLY time I have EVER seen people that look as bad as these folks do is one place: the county jail. And they are the street prostitutes, specifically, which leads me to believe that lifestyle has a whole lot to do with the degradation of physical appearance. What say you?

You believe that it is the acetone that rots teeth, not minute drops of hydrocloric acid that is present in meth that is purchased "wet" i.e. with drops of moisture on the side of the baggie?

As far as flammability, I have a Ronson torch I purchased at Wal-Mart for about $30. More recently I have been using it to clean my pipe. I hold it a safe distance away pointed away from my face when I clean the bowl. I have found it prudent to do so as when I accidently get some of the flame gets inside the hole on the top it creates a flash. Is this acetone that is creating the flash? Or some kind of cut? Or a mixture of things?

Your last paragraph was particularly illuminating. Quite good examples. Thank you much for your time and patience.

 

[tricomb]

EDIT: Above poster: pure methamp is NOT flammable, I don't know what you have but be careful.

I believe there are quite a few contributing factors to "meth mouth", possibly including the solvents and acids mentioned above, but from what I see in tweakers that exclusively suck that glass dick, the majority of the damage comes from their complete disregard for oral hygiene, like brushing their teeth at least twice a day (these people do not brush, and stay awake for days) combined with the food intake they choose. It's fucking gross to see these people stay up for half a week getting by on nothing but Sour Patch kids, sugary and corrosive sodas, alcohol, and primarily, DOING NOTHING ABOUT HOW DRY THEIR MOUTH IS. Seriously, I have to remind these people to take a sip of fucking water every now and then.

As a strong believer in harm reduction, and as an occasional user of the substance, I must say the best way to safely use dextromethamp is to save it for special occasions, don't rationalize and "use it to work triple overtime", that's just asking for the addiction. Also, smoking it is attractive to some users due to the rush, and the experienced user can patiently and perfectly vaporize shard without burning it, and take advantage of the extremely high smoked BA. I had a pain flare today and due to an unexpected shortage of my pain meds, used SMALL amounts of vaped glass as I have in the past to distract my body from the pain.

Insufflation is my favorite ROA for this chemical, by far. However, as any veteran will tell you, if you patiently apply the correct amount of heat (I never use jet/torch lighters) and inhale extremely slowly just as it turns to a liquid (if it's bubbling, your burning product), you can A) accurately dose yourself. B) have the possibility to blow clouds twice as big as someone who just torches the shit out of their product until they see a whole bunch of vapor containing burnt and ruined d-MA. You have so much more control using foil vs pyrex but you sacrifice the ability to smoke the frost that accumulates on pyrex.