Methadone vs Morphine

[chippermonk]

Chippermonk -- wait are you telling me a politician is a hypocrite? One in the Trump administration. Someone so considerate to people with things like autism. (ok ill stop)

Aren't they required to take the Hypocrite Oath in order to administer public health?

 

[Smyth2]

I'm physically handicapped so for me as a chemist I would happily supply spirodone over methadone since you get more doses per unit work.

Maybe a spirodone/loperamide analog since that is even less physical work to have to do.

Remember the amide doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't pass the BBB since moramide is also an amide and strong analog of methadone.

I'm just exploring different ideas though, don't take it too religiously that I have actually attempted such work yet.

L-687,384 is not necessaily that easy to make though so if you had to go through all the steps it's for a superagonist not just skimping on the work load.

 

[Púca Rebellion]

"An intestinal obstruction is a blockage that prevents the normal flow of contents through the small or large intestine, often causing symptoms like pain, bloating, vomiting, and inability to pass gas or stool. It can result from various causes, including physical blockages, twisted intestines, or impacted stool."

I stand by what I said; as I lived it lol. Both these medications have caused me a lot of pain, and suffering. I was doing well on mono Buprenorphine, until they forced me to go off of it. I went back to street suply after that. We have virtually no options in the USA.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

Yes - levomethadone is some x20 more potent than dextromethadone. I know Germany now uses the more active enantiomer. It's crazy that other nations sill use raecemic methadone since it's been established that dextromethadone is cardiotoxic.

But for this comparison, I was assuming raecemic methadone (an equal amount of both enantiomers).

Yeah and the S.A version is a 50/50 mix of the 2 and there is also only one supplier having monopoly

 

[4DQSAR]

I'm physically handicapped so for me as a chemist I would happily supply spirodone over methadone since you get more doses per unit work.

Maybe a spirodone/loperamide analog since that is even less physical work to have to do.

Remember the amide doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't pass the BBB since moramide is also an amide and strong analog of methadone.

I'm just exploring different ideas though, don't take it too religiously that I have actually attempted such work yet.

L-687,384 is not necessaily that easy to make though so if you had to go through all the steps it's for a superagonist not just skimping on the work load.

You realize that the extremely synthetically complex N-substituent does two things. It provides that PIF and it places an aromatic ring in an appropriate distance and orientation to said PIF. There are some other methadone derivatives that according to the limited research, manage that same feat without needing one to go thtough the dozen steps of producing a 3 ring system. I'm uncertain just how potent since they used values relative to pethidine... but yah, x1500 pethidine in 2 steps rather than 12.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Were you tryna hit a lick on the bupe clinic

They pissed me off to the point when I realized that I was the perceived threat --- I made damn sure they were late to wherever they were going next! If it were a metro area and not my clinic they just watched me leave and walk to my vehicle-- than of course not crime is bad. would have been about 15k in cash minimum surely. (Honestly they didnt hit the bank all week so x5). In a different life.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

On the show : The Crime of the Century" a pain patient was offered a deal with the biggest Oxycotin rep of Florida that she would pay for the Rx if they could document him to show the drug was safe. He was prescribed 22-25qty Oxycotin 160mg every 12hrs for lower back pain. The guy saved the pill bottle to reference it later down the road,

I believe since Purdue was sponsoring the trial and the sales rep was bringing him the pills instead of filling at a pharmacy, that many of the OC 160mg pills were a placebo. If they were real his MME would be 6,000mg of morphine daily. The guy would have been dead 100%

I gotta see that show! Way off topic but a friend was over telling me there kid found a book called "The incredible journey of Baron Trump" written in the 40's-50's about someone named baron trump who is a time traveler who claims in his time his father donald was the president. (Coincidence, surely?) Noone pay attention to that unless you want to.

160 x 25 oly wa -- even if some were placebos that is an oohhh dammnn forsure.

Chippermonk - I have a song about how EVERYONE is on drugs and the last bar is "thats the hypocratic oath from our hypocritic players" -- its called "everyone is on drugs" (Cuz I am super creative)

 

[Them Witches]

I gotta see that show! Way off topic but a friend was over telling me there kid found a book called "The incredible journey of Baron Trump" written in the 40's-50's about someone named baron trump who is a time traveler who claims in his time his father donald was the president. (Coincidence, surely?) Noone pay attention to that unless you want to.

160 x 25 oly wa -- even if some were placebos that is an oohhh dammnn forsure.

Chippermonk - I have a song about how EVERYONE is on drugs and the last bar is "thats the hypocratic oath from our hypocritic players" -- its called "everyone is on drugs" (Cuz I am super creative)

OC 160mg every 12 hours take 22-25 pills... what a nightmare of a habit ? The guy was saying he was still in pain taking 12qty 160mg every 12hrs...

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

For real --- could you imagine catchin an 160mg placebo, I feel like I would note that real quick. (not complain and take another) lol. Still in pain -- Damn! I imagine once tolerance sets in that could happen but WOW if that isnt doing it idk what would. Couple grams of oxycodone a day at that point "Save the pills just give me baggies please". Purdue really did alot of ppl dirty --- not as bad as acetemenophin(sp) but still

My (very lame) real life example is I am in my late 30s and afaik don't have any pain --- get a little sick from sub and all of a sudden I got a bad back and knee. (wtf lol).

 

[Them Witches]

I gotta see that show! Way off topic but a friend was over telling me there kid found a book called "The incredible journey of Baron Trump" written in the 40's-50's about someone named baron trump who is a time traveler who claims in his time his father donald was the president. (Coincidence, surely?) Noone pay attention to that unless you want to.

160 x 25 oly wa -- even if some were placebos that is an oohhh dammnn forsure.

Chippermonk - I have a song about how EVERYONE is on drugs and the last bar is "thats the hypocratic oath from our hypocritic players" -- its called "everyone is on drugs" (Cuz I am super creative)

HBO's mini series -- It can be viewed by streaming MAX or HBO
The Crime of the Century -- 2021 -- Season 1 // episodes 1 & 2

 

[Them Witches]

For real --- could you imagine catchin an 160mg placebo, I feel like I would note that real quick. (not complain and take another) lol. Still in pain -- Damn! I imagine once tolerance sets in that could happen but WOW if that isnt doing it idk what would. Couple grams of oxycodone a day at that point "Save the pills just give me baggies please". Purdue really did alot of ppl dirty --- not as bad as acetemenophin(sp) but still

My (very lame) real life example is I am in my late 30s and afaik don't have any pain --- get a little sick from sub and all of a sudden I got a bad back and knee. (wtf lol).

My bad it was more than 6,000 MME. 160mg X 50qty per day equals 8,000mg of Oxycodone, that is a 12,000 MME lol... The man would be dead so there must have been a great percentage of placebo in that Rx. Medical data states that 2,000 MME is the top of the chart "ultra high MME"

The guy with the laughable " 5 digit MME " of 12,000 would be like him wearing 66qty Fentanyl 100mcg patches at all times OR taking 360-400qty Methadone 10mg tablets daily OR taking 375qty Hydromorphone 8mg daily OR taking 267qty Roxicodone 30mg daily... Imagine someone taking 17qty Roxicodone 30mg every hour and still sleeping 8hrs per day... ???

Filling a 30 day Rx for 11,250qty Hydromorphone 8mg OR a 30 day Rx for 8,010qty Roxi 30's... There isn't a pharmacy on this planet allowed to order that much by the DEA for only one patient/customer. The pharmacy would have to order 80qty stock bottles of 100ct per stock bottle per month for him. The DEA would have shut that down quickly. And at what point in time does any company producing schedule II narcotics admit to starting and completing a trial experiment at that level.

Again for the record, the man did not have extreme cancer pain. It was lower back pain. Those Oxycotin CEO's used the man to fake medical usage documents to con the world into thinking the drug is absolutely A-Okay even at "5 diget MME scores"...

The man said quote, "I was starting to feel toxic..." lol. Well no shit, his liver, kidneys, stomach, intestines, and other organs would have shut down quicker than melting a stick of butter in a bonfire. That much Oxycodone would be like eating rat poison by the plate full because that is what toxic doses of Thebaine is compared to.

 

[4DQSAR]

There do exist people for whom opioids do not work. But I presume that even in such people, oxycodone will become toxic in other ways at sufficintly high doses. So OK, myabe you find someone for oxycodone doesn't work and is also blessed with a metabolism that protects from the toxicity...

But then you have ONE patient. Not statistically valid.

That said, amazed by how little Perdue reps actually knew about medicines. Their job was to sell medicines, not understand let alone be able to explain HOW they work.

 

[Them Witches]

There do exist people for whom opioids do not work. But I presume that even in such people, oxycodone will become toxic in other ways at sufficintly high doses. So OK, myabe you find someone for oxycodone doesn't work and is also blessed with a metabolism that protects from the toxicity...

But then you have ONE patient. Not statistically valid.

That said, amazed by how little Perdue reps actually knew about medicines. Their job was to sell medicines, not understand let alone be able to explain HOW they work.

Yes indeed.

8,000mg of Oxycotin per day is not having enough sense to stand up in a mud puddle