[MEGA] Meditation

[mindtools]

Ok, so I know nearly nothing about mediation. Don't even know where to start my research from.

A friend told me about it and it sounded very interesting. He told me just to find quiet place and clear my mind. Is it really enough?

What do I expect:
I'd like to learn something about myself, to find some answers to philosophical and spiritual questions that I have.

I'm not stressed, I think I don't need to calm down, I just to know something more about myself.

Could you please point me somewhere to start?


pzdr

 

[daysonatrain]

there are plenty of good sites on the net with detailed instructions on many different types of meditation, google it.
vipassana- a focus on the breath (and moving the mind through the body, touching every spot) alongwith examing the thoughts and sensations that go through the mind.
loving kindness- generate love for yourself, then someone you love, then a stranger, then an enemy and expand out to all of the universe.
these are really brief descriptions, if you look either up you will find much more info. the only thing i learned through meditation is that the mind always wants to learn new things look beyond the mind, to the open space that thoughts and feelings arise from.

 

[swilow]

Simple really- sit in a chair or in the lotus position if its comfortable; focus on breathing. Either draw your attention to breath entering your nose/mouth, or focus on it entering your lungs/abdomen- stick to one though. The aim of meditating, as I see it, is to experiene nothing but existence, and as we cannot help but to think, we must focus our thoughts on one object; breath, a mnatra, drums etc.

For what its worth, I don't believe you'll learn anything about yourself through meditation- you more seem to discover what you are not, as opposed to what you are. If you meditate with a goal in mind, you can't focus (well, I can't...) But if you meditate with the knowledge that, through this practive, you will pare away at the things that are not you- ie. your emotions, your thoughts, your feelings- these are not You, but things that happen to you.

What you are is Life. Conciousness that is concious of itself.

 

[inverse_agonist]

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki is a good explanation of the meaning of meditation in daily life from a Soto Zen perspective. Quotes from it:

Enlightenment is not some good feeling or some particular state of mind. The state of mind that exists when you sit in the right posture is, itself, enlightenment. If you cannot be satisfied with the state of mind you have in zazen, it means your mind is still wandering about. Our body and mind should not be wobbling or wandering about. In this posture there is no need to talk about the right state of mind. You already have it. This is the conclusion of Buddhism.

If you try to calm your mind you will be unable to sit, and if you try not to be disturbed, your effort will not be the right effort. The only effort that will help you is to count your breathing, or to concentrate on your inhaling and exhaling. We say concentration, but to concentrate your mind on something is not the true purpose of Zen. The true purpose is to see things as they are, to observe things as they are, and to let everything go as it goes. This is to put everything under control in its widest sense. Zen practice is to open up our small mind. So concentrating is just an aid to help you realize "big mind," or the mind that is everything. If you want to discover the true meaning of Zen in your everyday life, you have to understand the meaning of keeping your mind on your breathing and your body in the right posture in zazen.

Because we enjoy all aspects of life as an unfolding of big mind, we do not care for any excessive joy. So we have imperturbable composure, and it is with this imperturbable composure of big mind that we practice zazen.

Those who can sit perfectly physically usually take more time to obtain the true way of Zen, the actual feeling of Zen, the marrow of Zen. But those who find great difficulties in practicing Zen will find more meaning in it.

The result is not the point; it is the effort to improve ourselves that is valuable. There is no end to this practice.

But as long as you think you are practicing zazen for the sake of something, that is not true practice.

When you are doing zazen, you are within the complete calmness of your mind; you do not feel anything. You just sit. But the calmness of your sitting will encourage you in your everyday life. So actually you will find the value of Zen in your everyday life, rather than while you sit. But this does not mean you should neglect zazen.

That sort of captures the spirit of it for me, even though I'm horrible at having the discipline to sit regularly.

 

[mindtools]

Thank you a lot.
As I looked through wikipedia I found there are many forms of meditation (like concentration, repeating mantras, movement meditation, visualisations, body poses, staying in alertness, trans and hipnosis). At first I'll probably try concentrating on breathing or candle (than voodoo ). Still there's an issue with finding quiet place around me
pzdr

 

[An Iz]

There is a good reason why you won't find any straight guide on how to meditate.

It is the same reason you won't find any rigorous definition of enlightenment.

 

[Nibiru]

Swilow's explaination was pretty good.

The first step is to be able to sit perfectly straight and still for a while, for the most part. For me, this was one of the hardest parts. I actually had to develop the strength around my spine to be able to get over the distraction of discomfort in order to focus well on breathing and concentration.

There are a lot of different meditation techniques from different traditions. Buddhist meditation and Hindu (Yogic) meditation come from similar traditions. In my experience, I found that Patanjali's yoga sutra is a really good, straightforward explaination of Yogic philosophy and meditation technique, but different traditions and techniques will make more sense to different people, and ultimately, it's a subjective thing that can't be figured or explained too well by verbal means.

 

[An Iz]

Transcendental meditation, which feminine grace mentions, and which the filmmaker david lynch subscribes to, is a real cult.

They fake scientific studies, and brainwash people on retreats.

But it is as legitimate as any meditation really. They just try to brainwash you and get your money with their meditation stuff.

 

[Shakti]

Iz, thanks for revealing your ignorance.

 

[jam uh weezy]

An_iz and Shakti, would any of you be willing to provide evidence as to why T_M is or is not a cult?

Thank you a lot.
As I looked through wikipedia I found there are many forms of meditation (like concentration, repeating mantras, movement meditation, visualisations, body poses, staying in alertness, trans and hipnosis). At first I'll probably try concentrating on breathing or candle (than voodoo ). Still there's an issue with finding quiet place around me
pzdr

I think you should ignore everything you've read about it and just try it out for yourself. I personally just sit in half-lotus while deeply ad evenly exhaling/inhaling. Sometimes I will keep a specific thing or issue in the forefront of my mind, and meditate on just that until I come to some sort of resolve or decision.

 

[Shakti]

weezy, I cant speak for TM cuz I am not involved with it in any way and am relatively unexposed to it. However, I can personally speak of the benefits of meditation, at least the types of meditation I do, which I can break down into 3 types; active inquiry into the nature of Self, meditation on subtle images/realities, and an emptiness/cessation meditation. The benefits to me have be an increase in intelligence, an unburdening of the mind from many unnecessary egoic pursuits, revelation in understand who I am and my relative and absolute place in the world... Believe me, to the dedicated, meditation is a tool to set you free.

 

[protovack]

One thing I was told personally years ago, is that meditation is not something you "do", but rather it is a state of mind that one gradually becomes comfortable in. Most people in the world live in a hectic state, always bouncing from one thing to the next, living in the moment to the point where they forget the bigger things like themselves, their place in the world, and the search for their humanity. "Meditation" is what we do to exit that state of mind and ponder.

For example, if you enjoy doing things like looking at the sun rise from the top of a mountain, and pondering the sun, it's energy, our relation to it while sitting in it's warmth, that is meditation.

I see meditation as any time when I am alone, pondering something, especially if I am outdoors in nature, my mind naturally drifts to that state. Some would say meditation is being comfortable with yourself and your mind.

 

[Nibiru]

One thing I was told personally years ago, is that meditation is not something you "do", but rather it is a state of mind that one gradually becomes comfortable in. Most people in the world live in a hectic state, always bouncing from one thing to the next, living in the moment to the point where they forget the bigger things like themselves, their place in the world, and the search for their humanity. "Meditation" is what we do to exit that state of mind and ponder.

For example, if you enjoy doing things like looking at the sun rise from the top of a mountain, and pondering the sun, it's energy, our relation to it while sitting in it's warmth, that is meditation.

I see meditation as any time when I am alone, pondering something, especially if I am outdoors in nature, my mind naturally drifts to that state. Some would say meditation is being comfortable with yourself and your mind.

this fella explains what you're saying nicely, I reckon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-XQ22Gaz4A

 

[An Iz]

Wow guys. Critical Thinking exercise here. (CT)
~~~

Transcendental Meditation, or TM, (a trademark of Maharishi Foundation, Ltd.)

• You have to pay out the nose for them to teach you the 'secret technique of "meditation"' (mantras which can be found online)
• As you get 'better' at it they send you on retreats which cost thousands of dollars where you get to meditate all day
• As you go on more and better retreats you achieve super-awareness, then cosmic consciousness on the next level, and they keep going forever.
• There have been deaths and mental breakdowns associated with it, leading to lawsuits and out of court settlements with "The Foundation"

The wiki page on it is a great example of a sort of modern propaganda/marketing war. Check the discussion. Or google

 

[An Iz]

Some would say meditation is being comfortable with yourself and your mind.

Bingo.


And as a metatopic, learning about meditation, includes learning about what role you play in your life and what role 'experts' and 'teachers' fill.

 

[An Iz]

Eh, I think pretty much everyone is walking around in a trance state already, it does come naturally, and there really can't be any distinction between 'practicing meditation' and any other part of living your life-- because what the word 'meditation' signifies doesn't have any distinct meaning, when you really break it down and try to understand it.

Now I do believe in a line in the zen garden sand: Does a form of 'meditation' lead to increased awareness of and synchronization with ALL your thoughts, feelings and emotions, and EVERYTHING in your life-- OR -- does it help you avoid some and escape for a while into a hard to define 'way things should be'?

I would say one these types of meditation consists of a way to find out how to drug yourself without substances, and one is an abstract word that simply means 'living the inspected life"

Now, which way would people pay for? Which way could be a 'secret' that you get taught by someone you don't know much about?

I'm sorry my posts were kind of obstinate and confrontational, these are of course my personal views.

But I must be confrontational again:
• You say "I don't even need to read the evidence to make up my mind"
• You mention churches in a beneficial light, justifying taking people's money in return for 'holy secrets'
• You speak of a required state of mind.

To me, all those infer some sort of extreme exclusion or judgment, the sort of thing that puts kinks in my ability to unconditionally embrace life, myself, and others! But I do accept that many many people do not share my goals or point of view. Its just fun to argue on teh net. ;0)

 

[Shakti]

Ah you don't like that it implies that you are somehow not perfect right now. It impinges on your perfect ego.

Guess what, you're partial, flawed and ignorant just like everyone else... Sorry So don't have a hissy fit when people try and help by pointing out the ways.

the sort of thing that puts kinks in my ability to unconditionally embrace life

If you actually could or ever had unconditionally embraced life, you would see that it would require that you embrace even the things that divide and separate you from complete embrace.

 

[sariputa]

The Buddhists and Hindus have been doing this for thousands of years. This is a good place to start. Nearly all new age rubbish is stolen from these traditions and you will need to wade through a lot of shit to find the real deal. Another possibility is Sufism and Christian mysticism/contemplation.

Might I suggest Swami Vivekananda's Raja Yoga (with comentary on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras).
There are many good books on Buddhist meditation. The most accessible are those on the Theravada tradition (tranquilizing and insight meditation) eg. Bhikku Bodhi, Nanamoli. DT Suzuki is great on Zen.
Meister Eckhart (a little difficult), John Tauler, Saint John of the Cross, The Cloud of Unknowing, maybe even Thomas Merton.
Check out the Dao de Jing.

All this is really confusing but you will eventually find your niche.

Hope this helps.

 

[noone1]

Transcendental meditation, which feminine grace mentions, and which the filmmaker david lynch subscribes to, is a real cult.

They fake scientific studies, and brainwash people on retreats.

But it is as legitimate as any meditation really. They just try to brainwash you and get your money with their meditation stuff.

I half agree with you TM itself is just regular meditation which I (think) has been inconclusive in medical studies, there is always placebo effect to consider but I just know that zasen helps me personally be a better person.

The late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and his cult on the other hand are indeed only out for the money and full of shit as the beatles realized when he flew them around in his helicopter and tried to sexually assault one of their female friends.

 

[yougene]

I don't think TM qualifies as being called a cult. Their meditation technique is fine. I don't think there is anything particularly special about what they do either.

Most retreats cost alot of money and most offer "scholarships" for people that don't have much money. The way these institutions survive in their traditional homelands is not sustainable in the modern west.