MEGA - Jobs, Resumes, Interviews

[An Iz]

I think people stress too much over these letters. Teachers basically see them as paperwork for their job.

 

[Lysis]

I think people stress too much over these letters. Teachers basically see them as paperwork for their job.

Yep, the adviser for grad school basically said this to me in a round about way. The most that was asked from me was a copy of my transcript and all 3 asked for a page that laid out my goals and dreams. I kicked ass on my background essay.

 

[PottedMeat]

Worked fine for me. Consider, though, proposing to set up a time to meet with the prof in the e-mail.

ebola

Even though it (as far as you know) worked out for you; I think it is a matter of common courtesy to actually talk to profs. I simply would not risk ever overtly offending a prof by contacting them by wemail concerning one of the most important factors that will directly impact on the likelihood of obtaining a favorable LOR.

But, hey if it floats your boat; by all means request a LOR by wemail.

 

[ebola?]

I think people stress too much over these letters.

Maybe. In the case of my grad school admissions committee, letters of rec tied for most important (a tie with the statement of purpose).

Even though it (as far as you know) worked out for you; I think it is a matter of common courtesy to actually talk to profs. I simply would not risk ever overtly offending a prof by contacting them by wemail concerning one of the most important factors that will directly impact on the likelihood of obtaining a favorable LOR.

These letter are part of what we are paid to do. Any prof who gets annoyed at such requests may wish to rethink how he treats others.

ebola

 

[satricion]

Even though it (as far as you know) worked out for you; I think it is a matter of common courtesy to actually talk to profs. I simply would not risk ever overtly offending a prof by contacting them by wemail concerning one of the most important factors that will directly impact on the likelihood of obtaining a favorable LOR.

But, hey if it floats your boat; by all means request a LOR by wemail.

Everything goes through e-mail these days. It's more convenient for academics anyway since many of them can't be relied on to be in their office (due to teaching or whatever) and they can answer an e-mail at their leisure.

No big deal.

 

[ranma]

Credential service and CYA (cover your ass)

I agree with the others. If it is at all possible, you should request a meeting by email and see them in person about the letters. It is not at all strange for them to ask you to write something about what you want to do in the future, or what you have done for them in the past. Remember, professors have hundreds of students every year and the students sometimes run together in their minds or they forget people all together. They have a lot going on... That being said, you would do well to get a letter from a professor who actually knows who the heck you are.

The good ones also want to be able to write the best letter possible for you, so they need to make sure to tailor it specifically to you. I disagree with Rogue Robot who said that sometimes LORs are generic. For grad school, a generic letter is the kiss of death and if you find yourself with one like that (that is if you get a chance to see it because some profs are nice enough to show you what they wrote but they don't have to do this and most won't), you might not want to send that one (see the "VERY IMPORTANT" section below). Remember, you want people you KNOW will write good and specific things about you because those are the most convincing LORs. And this should be a lesson to you that you should always make an deliberate effort to distinguish yourself in class whenever possible throughout your academic career because this will not be the last time you need LORs.

Your school should have a credentials filing service or similarly-named option available to you, take advantage of that and have the professor(s) forward the letters to this service in addition to sending it directly to whatever schools you are interested in for post-grad work. Remember to waive your right to see these letters with the credentials filing office; some grad schools won't even accept LORs that you have the option to read (even if you don't read them!)

As for the credential service, the one I use is Interfolio (www.Interfolio.com). It is a commercial one but it is probably one of the most versatile and it is well known by universities. You can keep copies of your statements of purpose/essays, writing samples, grades/gre scores (although most grad school will eventually want the original sent from the school/ETS, but this will give you some cushion if things run late, as they always do), as well as your LORs. As I am sure you are applying to more than one program, it would be prudent to have your recommenders send their LOR directly to Interfolio so that you will not have to constantly go back to them each time you need a copy. And it is confidential because you send a request through Interfolio and Interfolio sends a link to the recommender to which they upload the LOR themselves. You never see it or touch it, so grad school can trust that it is legitimate.

VERY IMPORTANT!: I would also get LORs from one or two backup recommenders just in case one of your recommenders flakes out at the last minute and forgets to write you a letter (he/she could also refuse or even die before finishing it!). This happened to me last year where a prof who had promised me a letter never sent it and never replied to my emails and as a result, I had to try to scramble to get another at the last-minute and missed the deadline for a couple of schools I didn't get accepted to because I was short one letter!

One final note: MAKE SURE YOU SEND THANK YOU LETTERS TO YOUR RECOMMENDERS! One immediately after they send the LOR, and another one letting them know what program you got into! I can't stress this enough as you never know who you will be working with in the future.

Good luck!

 

[Rogue Robot]

Resume vs CV

Over the years, I've noticed more people in the U.S., or at least the ones in my department and school, using the CV format rather than a resume format to list their job history, education, etc.

Are there pros and cons on choosing one or the other? Is a CV pointless if all you have is job history and have not completed your course work?

 

[ebola?]

in my department and school

This is the crux of the matter. CVs tend to be appropriate for academic or quasi-academic environments while resumes tend to be appropriate for employment more firmly rooted in capitalist firms. Obviously, people 'in your department' tend to operate in the former sphere...

ebola

 

[Rogue Robot]

This is the crux of the matter. CVs tend to be appropriate for academic or quasi-academic environments while resumes tend to be appropriate for employment more firmly rooted in capitalist firms. Obviously, people 'in your department' tend to operate in the former sphere...

ebola

so you'd suggest that if say i were applying for a job outside of the academic arena to use a resume over a CV?

 

[RedLeader]

If you've got stuff that is awkward to put into a resume, then use a CV. CVs are allowed to be longer than resumes to account for such things.

It's not exactly that you want to use a CV over a resume just for academic or research type positions, but if you have A LOT of academic experience (not just as a student) use a CV.

I personally use a CV, becuase I've been published in a science journal once, and I've given a few research talks here and there outside of the realm of any programs of study. That stuff would seem really pushy/showy in a resume, but would fit more naturally into a CV. And it's stuff I want potential employers to see.

So if this kind of thing applies for you too, then I'd suggest it. Also, not just acamdeic stuff like I said I did, but if another person has done a lot of volunteer work, a lot of little jobs here and there, maybe spoke at conferences about things, etc. Then that is also good stuff for a CV.

However, if you use a CV format when you've got nothing that naturally would seem out of place in a traditional resume format, then use a resume. Using a CV in this case would cause you to seem way too eager and stretching - when applying for a job, you want be confident about what you have, but not appear to be selling yourself as something you're not.

I found this link to be helpful for you:
http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/curriculumvitae/a/curriculumvitae.htm#

 

[Rogue Robot]

I personally use a CV, becuase I've been published in a science journal once, and I've given a few research talks here and there outside of the realm of any programs of study. That stuff would seem really pushy/showy in a resume, but would fit more naturally into a CV. And it's stuff I want potential employers to see.

I was curious as to how this would play in to whether or not to use a resume or CV. I'm for certain my undergrad and graduate research will be published, and the research I will be doing this summer may or not be, but I would like to be able to mention it in some way or another in the future.

I'd also be joining a club/society by summer's end to add, as well, as it's not necessarily pertinent to add, but worthwhile to join and mention.

Thank you for the link, too. I'm check it out now. I found that link earlier, but I figured I'd ask people's personal experiences/preferences first.

 

[RedLeader]

I was curious as to how this would play in to whether or not to use a resume or CV. I'm for certain my undergrad and graduate research will be published, and the research I will be doing this summer may or not be, but I would like to be able to mention it in some way or another in the future.

I'd also be joining a club/society by summer's end to add, as well, as it's not necessarily pertinent to add, but worthwhile to join and mention.

Given that CVs can be longer, you can be more flexable as to what you put down under your academic qualifications. On a resume, it is best to just be like

Central College
B.A. Philosophy
GPA: 3.0

whereas on a CV, you can throw in stuff like dean's list awards, GPA within your major, and stuff about research. Like

Central University
M.Sc. Biology
GPA: 3.5
GPA in Major: 3.68
Thesis Project: Gay is Genitic!
Deans List multiple semesters


Here's actually what I hav done, and I think if you've got a lot of academic research that you think might get published:

Chalk it up and buy your own domain name. Build a very simple website, that appears both personal and professional. If you don't know the basics of setting up such a thing (you'll want to have like www (dot) roguerobot (dot) com and not www (dot) geocities (dot) com/roguerobot if you want to look good) since it's not all point-and-click construction, I'm sure you can find a friend or aquantence to do it for you.

But you'll want just a simple site, with:

• 2-3 paragraph summary of where you've been and where you want to go
• A link to a page about your hobbies and interests
• a link to a page of your favourite links
• a link to a page, from where your writings can be obtained

This last one is very important, becuase you can, for example, put up .doc or .pdf files of stuff you've written (such as a thesis project or summer research effort), powerpoint presentations, regardless of whether it's published.

And then you reference your website on your CV. Example:

Central University
M.S. Biology
GPA: 3.5
GPA in Major: 3.68
Thesis Project: Gay is Genitic!*

*available:www (dot) roguerobot (dot) com

I've had great success with this, and it does make you appear very organized and professional.

As for clubs and stuff, I wouldn't put stuff on a resume, unless it's like science olympiad or something truly strong. Other stuff I find best just to fit in during the interview.

 

[spork]

Moving to E&C

 

[Mariposa]

Under 40-45 years of age, preferably

It is absolutely 100% against US law to use age as a criterion for hiring. I do not know if a similar provision is in Aus law, and I mean no offense, DG, but this is the kind of dirty tactic that drives enterprising people like me away from employment agencies. It's not happened to me as I am substantially younger than most people in my field with the same level of experience. It has happened to people in my field who are above age 40, and one that I know got a settlement from a recruiting agency equal to about 5 years of pay after filing a lawsuit.

US law on the matter

I also didn't like being sent on 5-7 interviews per week for jobs that were either entry-level or way over my head just so the recruiters could impress their clients by sending in someone who knows how to conduct themselves properly.

Having said that, I was in a situation a few years ago where I landed my dream job and commanded a very high salary due to the efforts of my recruiters. Unfortunately the business closed 18 months later.

I would only use a recruiter again (and do/have) to pick up short-term assignments. Recruitment agencies typically have very high overhead as their account execs get paid very well. I also know now how to negotiate my own salary, so that when/if I return to working for someone else, I should be able to command the same or a higher salary even in this awful market.

And the recruiters that sent me on the wild goose chases? Standing in the dole line.

 

[**hAyzzZZ**]

^ It's illegal here (Australia) to discriminate someone based on their age in regards to employment.

 

[@lterEgo]

job interview on crutches

i've been talking to a company about an open position for over a month, but due to fiscal year end duties at another job i am only just now available for an in-person interview. unfortunately i broke my ankle last weekend and am now on crutches. i'm planning to show up to the interview on friday and proceed as normal. i just wondered if anyone had any advice/experience to share, specifically on these issues:

1. should you warn the employer ahead of time that you're going to show up on crutches?

2. what would you wear? especially if you were in a fairly bulky leg cast?

3. do you think this makes a candidate look accident/injury prone, or super dedicated?

4. what is the best way to bow out of this if the pain is still too much to handle by the interview date?

5. should one even bother trying to hobble around to interviews in a situation like this?

i've got my own approach in motion right now, but this is my first time and i'm curious to see how other people might handle things.

 

[Red Arrow]

1. should you warn the employer ahead of time that you're going to show up on crutches?
No, theres nothing quite like a little surprise to throw them off and out of their comfort zone.

2. what would you wear? especially if you were in a fairly bulky leg cast?
a hells angels leather jacket and blue jeans

3. do you think this makes a candidate look accident/injury prone, or super dedicated?
makes you look wild, interviewers like wild

4. what is the best way to bow out of this if the pain is still too much to handle by the interview date?
get fucked up, a bottle of jack daniels and a pack of marlboro in your shirt pocket

5. should one even bother trying to hobble around to interviews in a situation like this?
lol at hobble around




ok, sorry i was just joking with you mo, ill let people reply with serious answers now!

 

[Heuristic]

You act like you barely notice it, and when asked what happened tell a very brief, funny anecdote, or explain it in a sentence with a laugh and a smile. It indicates good humor in the face of adversity. If you can laugh about a broken limb, your prospective employer will reason, surely you will giggle when your work-weeks are ten hours longer than expected due solely to pointless meetings.

Alternatively you can glare at your interviewer and in a low voice ask if he is familiar with the Disabilities Act.

Edit: And no do not cancel or ask to leave because of pain. I'm sure you've heard the old saying about where you can find sympathy.

 

[Outofclosetlurker]

1. should you warn the employer ahead of time that you're going to show up on crutches?

No, that shows them that you're not feeling sorry for yourself, or expect any sympathy, etc. It's business as usual even though you have injured yourself.
Your situation may be an "ice breaker" that will start your conversation and help to make you feel more comfortable.

2. what would you wear? especially if you were in a fairly bulky leg cast?

Is it business casual or business? Do you have a long skirt with a classic blouse, jacket if you like. Or you can wear dress pants. I was thinking the long skirt might be more comfortable and help with ease of movement. You don't have any snow I take it so you don't have to worry about bulky coats or falling on ice 8)

3. do you think this makes a candidate look accident/injury prone, or super dedicated? Super dedicated, you don't let anything get in your way or stop you from going after what you want.

4. what is the best way to bow out of this if the pain is still too much to handle by the interview date? Don't!!!

5. should one even bother trying to hobble around to interviews in a situation like this? The ones that are important to you, I think it's worth your while. The economy really sucks right now and you could be missing out on the "perfect job" if it's a position you really want.

[/QUOTE]

 

[retired_chemist]

I cannot disagree more on the advanced notice.

You already have some dialog open with them. They have already formed some impressions. At this stage it is human nature that sudden surprises tend to be viewed as disappointment.

You should take the attitude of pursuing the interview - that is business as usual, not walking in with a suddenly awkward situation for them to deal with. You will impress no one by doing this.

You do not know their corporate culture adequately having not had an on-site interview. I have been through countless interviews in multiple industries over a multiple decade career. Some places like to put you in one spot. Other places like to put you with one person such as HR who does a "door-to-door" with you. There are countless variants in between. In fact I have always been excited to encounter the latter, I like interviewing in a company where people are busy and the joint is jumping and there is not a whole lot of mentality of spending long periods of time in conference rooms.

One thing that is universal - people are very much personal about their space. Suppose your interview is going to be conference room based. You just got lucky.

Suppose the people have a culture of "walk-about". Now not only have you surprised them, you have also disrupted their "program". It is not a matter of "sympathy" but just basic common courtesy. Their natural tendency will be to feel they need to compensate. Which probably means a very awkward and unplanned change and communication that has to ripple down to each person. Not good. At best, someone has to scramble to find a room. At worst someone asks the first person "You don't mind if we just use your office for a little while?" Damn right they mind, only slightly less than when they come in and someone is just sitting behind their desk.

Many people also have their own little mini-program they already plan on. Some people are nervous interviewers, they often compensate by a very regimented "loop" that they do, which starts with some kind of well practised cordialities and a standard monologue that keeps them in "control". The loop usually is not programmed to handle even a minor surprise.

And a thousand other possibilities. Even something as minor as an HR rep, who once you leave, feel some kind of obligation to tell someone else "Sorry, I was caught as unawares as anyone, otherwise I would have arranged for a conference room in advance". In this case by leaving someone like an HR rep uninformed, you risk them thinking that could reflect poorly on them. You better believe if that is true, they are gonna make sure (and not incorrectly) that it reflects poorly on you.

Showing up shows your dedication. What good can possibly come of showing up and throwing this kind of curve at a brand new set of faces?

It is not about sympathy, or dedication. It is basic professional courtesy. You give your primary contact a concise and to the point warning to the effect of "I broke my ankle, it is minor. I did not want to just show up on crutches without also letting you know in advance that I am mobile, no special accommodations are needed. I am looking forward to interview."

That gives them time to adjust, no awkward surprises. If it is deviation from the normal plan they will probably have a room ready. The people that need a formula have time to just add a simple additional introduction.

Etc etc. It is partly about mutual courtesy. You give them the courtesy of a heads up with a "business as usual" attitude. They can make their own decision about their courteous obligation, which could mean planning a single room interview instead of what they might normally do. It is partly about not preparing them, which is the same as you not being prepared. And there is no mistake more fundamental or fatal to interviewing with a good group of interviewers than you not being prepared.