[Mega] "I lost the magic!" megathread

[mgmt&mdma]

^^ nice post.

this is probably covered somewhere but i dont have time to seach it.

ill be getting put on antidepressants soon (probably SSRI's) do SSRI's cause lasting damage to the serotonin system? i know they cause 5ht2 downregulation so if thats the only damage than i could just use SJW to upregulate them. but im concerned that after i get taken off of them that i wont be able to enjoy my rolls as much (if at all)

 

[socalthizzn]

^yes try not to take them :/

 

[socalthizzn]

http://www.google.com/search?cx=009...n+ssri's&sa=Search&as_sitesearch=bluelight.ru

 

[mgmt&mdma]

^yes try not to take them :/

i dont mean like taking ecstasy while on antidepressants8)

i know that they dont mix hahahah. i meant after im done with antidepressants (like completely off)

 

[First Bad Comedown]

SSRIs are frequently recommended against by those in recovery from MDMA.
I have seen several posts of people saying it made them feel better, but in the long run cost them much more. One person claimed that it cost them a whole year of recovery time.

Yes, SSRIs cause down-regulation, some of it permanent. There is no reason to believe that SJW can simply reverse what is done. SJW is an herb that has broad effects upon many different neurotransmitter systems. Its effect is so complex, science does not yet understand how it works. But there is evidence that it can up-regulate in the prefrontal cortex. Caution: SJW is linked to serotonin syndrome. There are many dangerous combinations, includinge MDMA or MAOIs.

Yes, SSRIs will basically eradicate any euphoria from rolling unless you have been off the medication for weeks/months. There is also evidence that it will protect you from neurotoxicity as well.

SSRIs, on their own, are controversial. Doctors like to prescribe them because they do indeed cause improvements in mood and relief from depression. However, it is well documented that this relief is temporary, and most dosing regimens must go up to maintain effectiveness.

New research suggests that 60-80% of patients on SSRIs experience some negative sexual side effects. Initially, most men will experience an increase in their ability to perform. Ejaculation is delayed, similar to the way it would be on MDMA. However, over time this can turn into absence of orgasm, difficulty achieving erection, or complete lack of sexual interest!

For a minority of patients, this sexual dysfunction can become LONG lasting or PERMANENT. After they discontinue the medication, it gets worse over the course of several months. Not only do they describe absence of sex drive and complete loss of orgasm, but they also describe many of the psychological symptoms of MDMA abuse - panic attacks, head pressure, severe depression, detachment from the outside world, and complete lack of emotion for others.

Scary shit, right?

Look up PSSD. That stands for Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction.
Even if the extreme cases are rare, it is surprising to learn just how common the standard symptoms are during SSRI use.

SSRIs are dangerous, in my opinion. For some people, they are much more dangerous than others.

They are not effective for immediate relief of psychosis. They take weeks to take effect. When they are discontinued, you must taper off slowly. Even with a taper, withdrawal symptoms are expected and sometimes are extreme. Sexual side-effects are VERY common, and for some they become a life-long curse, a castration of sorts. The unlucky few are often not believed by their loved ones or doctors.

Why are these drugs considered so great if there positive effects are temporary, while some of the negative effects are long lasting or permanent?

Many on bluelight would say you should let your doctor make these decisions. I disagree.

I would not want anyone to simply go cold-turkey off their medication, that's for sure. That can be dangerous.
But I will adamantly oppose the use of SSRIs for common depression. Diet and exercise come first, before mind-altering medications.

If you have been an MDMA user/abuser....or any other serotonin agent for that matter, I highly recommend against SSRIs. They will likely stabilize your current condition, but at a higher cost than you may realize. You will still pay a price, down the road.

Suggestion other than exercise:
Try the SJW first, using caution, and see what happens.
Or consider a new drug known as an SSRE - tianeptine.
It has modest and indirect effects on serotonin. It also has modest effects on dopamine.

Of course there is always piracetam, too.
You have plenty of other options. Look into them.
Good luck.

 

[themachine]

firstbadcomedown, great post, I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible as to the proven science. if you could please correct me where i'm wrong or answer my questions...

MDMA causes LONG-lasting/permanent alterations in the serotonin innervation in the brains of many different mammals, especially if high or repeated doses are used.

for these human studies proving permanent damage, the subjects took surveys of their drug use history and then took cognitive tests correct? is it safe to assume that in these studies that at least a decent portion of the participants had been taking pills that were likely cut with other drugs? has there ever been human studies conducted with MDMA that has not been cut?

Although the field of neuroscience still has a long way to go, even blood distribution has been proven to be a common denominator in healthy brains. Thousands upon thousands of MRI scans agree - a healthy person will have even average blood distribution throughout the brain. When a scan reveals something different, scientists try to interpret what the problem is. But it is clearly understood that blood distribution is SUPPOSED to be even.

what are the negative effects as a result of uneven blood distribution aside from it not being "normal"?

This vast network of nerves CAN be damaged and altered. Why would anyone want to believe otherwise?

has there been anything to definitively conclude it was MDMA doing this and not other drugs that the pills were cut with or other drugs these people were taking?

There are clear indications that users of MDMA are at much higher risk of mood disorders or clinically significant psychological problems.

How is this adjusted for the presumption that people with psychological problems are more likely to use drugs in the first place? What is the time frame or volume of usage that has shown a clear link to mood disorders?

There are clear indications that repeated dosing increases the damage that is done.

Has this been shown in a controlled study? Or is this opinions of neuroscientists based on how the brain responds to the second dose after being depleted of serotonin?

Try living with anxiety, depression

have there been studies done that have isolated a control group of users that were psychologically healthy prior to use?

here is also sexual dysfunction, such as complete absence of sensation, difficulty achieving erection, and complete absence of sensation during orgasm.

can you link this study? i have yet to read this other than anecdotal

Take loads of VIT C and other anti-oxidants before, during, and after your roll

from what i remember, the one study that showed a definitive link between antioxidants and reduced neurotoxicity was done on rats where they gave the rats an exorbitant dose of MDMA and a subsequent exbortitant dose of vitamin C, far beyond what anyone would ingest in a night out. the authors at the end of the study said that it should not be assumed that this could be scaled down and still be effective. if there was another study could you please link me?

thanks

edit: this doesn't count for much but it seems to me that most of the stories i read on here of people who permanently fked themselves up readily admit they had some kind of anxiety or psychological problems prior to use or used some insane quantity of pills

 

[mgmt&mdma]

Thanks for the respone First Bad Comedown. its really good!

i think that my depression is more based on the fact that ive lost all my friends, etc. i think that the whole 'in my head' factor is alot less than im making it seem like. (if that makes sense haha)

ill try antidepressants 1- to see how well they work 2- since i already when through a shitton of drama with the family so that i could see a psychiatrist to get prescribed something

 

[stardust.hero]

Didn't you ever learn as a child that magic is just a nifty little maneuverage and tactile manipulation of smoke and mirrors. Nothing more.

In case anyone's still wondering. Santa Clause is a sham also. Bummmmer..

 

[kpr]

Any and all questions about Loss of magic are to go into this thread.
DO NOT START A NEW THREAD.
Post your question here and it will be answered
-NoT
__________________________​

Its been fun, huge fun...2003 moved to Florida in my mid 40's both my wife (now x)- were introduced to it by our neighbor (who was a medical professional) and his (then(wife) ..wild times, wild sex ...trips to europe rolling balls...had lotsa fun. new wife, living life, now no need, desire....predictable - ive seen this show hundreds of times maybe in different citys and across the globe. The crash gets harder and harder...been there done that. cant roll and not smoke ciggs. Done smoking ciggs, guess done rolling -new (not so) wife bored with rolling and i guess me too. clubs suck, raves (what raves) burning man, yah, NO -- ive abused almost every drug there is - I never expected to see 21 years old, let alone 52 - fuck!!! maybe now i just choose life - im trying not to judge, cause a part of me misses the whole scene. Started getting high the summer of 6th grade (1970)...getting high since!!! have been a highly fuctional substance abuser and equally financially succsessful...go figure...the propaganda is exactly that. But now I choose reality just cause. still LOVE trance music, make all the sense to me, dont understand why people dont get it...inspires me...still finf myself checking on the pill reports to see whats out there - and its like, yeah that'd be cool, but fuuuuuuuuuck the next 2 days (if im lucky just suck... and who knows, never say never, just not right now...peace n stay safe

Nice one.. good to read your story ..
I thought magic seemed far away for me these days till I popped some amt last night now its found Loud and Clear turns out it was just sleepin

 

[Jackie Chan]

Didn't you ever learn as a child that magic is just a nifty little maneuverage and tactile manipulation of smoke and mirrors. Nothing more.

In case anyone's still wondering. Santa Clause is a sham also. Bummmmer..

So the reason you think it doesn't exist is because of the term someone came up with to describe it?

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Lots of questions...

Hey Mr. Machine - lots of questions.
Whoah...

Great first question.
Also, a great first defense - The idea that impurities are somehow responsible for what is seen in research of street users. The hopeful belief that, somehow, using pure product will offer protection.

There are some known combinations that DO potentiate the neurotoxic effect of MDMA. Notice how MDMA is reported as the first toxin in this sentence.
Meth, a powerful dopamine stimulator, has been proven to increase toxicity. Piperazines, many of them too new for widespread study, have anecdotal reports of having very bad interactions with MDMA.

So YES - some users of MDMA that report problems are possibly being affected by these or other adulterants.

BUT

The truth is, the results are so reliably slanted towards long-term MDMA users displaying multiple markers of negative effects, that it is quantity not quality this is implicated. We would have to assume that all long-term heavy users were getting bad shit, and that is NOT an assumption that sounds reasonable.

Multiple tests show that length of depression/recovery, severity of symptoms, performance on cognitive tests, markers of 5-ht in the CSF (cerebro-spinal fluid), AND brain scans revealing decreases and increases of blood-flow....ALL of these different tests find that quantity of use correlates with the severity of the symptoms. In other words, hundreds of participants in a sample are charted using these kinds of tests. A defined curve is visible on these graphs, with the heavier users populating one part of the graph, and lighter users on the other. There can be exceptions, but overall this finding holds true for the vast majority of users.

Although relying on self-reported consumption is NOT a perfect method, it is the best available for 'street' studies. Despite this and OTHER confounding factors, the graphs reliably predict that the users with the highest usage will have the most negative outcomes on any graph.
This is called a 'dose-dependent effect'.

This is a sweeping trend that cannot be ignored. Quantity of total lifetime use AND typical session dosing are implicated.

Second question - Have studies been done using pure and known quantities of MDMA?

These types of studies are considered controversial among scientists, because to them the debate on whether or not MDMA is toxic has been settled. The only remaining debate you are likely to see is the precise definition of 'toxicity' and its truly 'long-term' implications.

But, YES there have been studies like this done.
Typically dosing is kept low - between 50-150 mg, given in a cool environment.
However, I have seen a study on blood distribution that used a few doses over 300mg. I have never seen any study where a human was knowingly given more than 400mg.

With the lower doses, negative clinical outcomes are not generally found - suggesting that one-time dosing is unlikely to produce the extreme symptoms seen in heavier street users.

However, decreases in regional blood flow in the weeks following use HAVE been seen - a controversial finding suggesting serotonergic alterations with moderate dosing.

Occasionally, increases are also seen, which is even more controversial because it is believed to be a more definitive marker of toxicity. In former heavy users on the street, these increases have been seen occurring for many months following abstinence.

Now you want to know why blood-distribution being modified is a bad thing?

Well, this is something found in Neuroscience 101.
Although this science is young and still has an infinity of information to learn...

Forget MDMA for a minute. There is plenty of data on the general population.
Thousands upon thousands of scans agree - a healthy brain is one with even, symmetrical blood-distribution throughout the brain.
Younger brains will look more vibrant, but even older brains that have been cared for will still display a solid average distribution.

On these scans, any area where the blood flow is say, 10% less or more than the overall average, the machine can differentiate this. On the display, this can appear as 'holes' in the brain. In reality, there are no physical holes - the brain matter is still there.

But when changes are seen, it is OFTEN associated with problems.
In elderly with strokes, this change in bloodflow can result in paralysis or other issues including depression. In children with changes, there may be extreme clinical symptoms like anxiety disorders, lying, or cruelty...

Some patterns of blood flow are found to reliably cause certain symptoms, so scientists will attempt to assign meaning to these scans based on existing research. Much of the information is not well understood.

We must accept the fact that one of the FEW things that they know for sure in neuroscience, is that blood distribution is supposed to be even throughout the brain.

Before MDMA research even began, it was well-known that serotonin played a LARGE role in this blood distribution.

So modifications from high doses of MDMA that cause LONG-term changes in blood flow is assumed to be a very bad thing. This is not a leap, this is backed by a simple guideline that was determined using a LOT of data. People without even blood distribution have problems.

Also, you have people like me and many others on bluelight that describe 'brain-zaps' or 'head-pressure'. I promise you, you do NOT want to experience this.

I have had very few 'zaps', something described as a sudden shock sensation accompanied by a popping or clicking noise. What I have felt is more like a strong buzzing sensation, which can go on for hours. Occasionally this buzzing can reach a sudden crescendo, which is quite disabling. It can easily cause an increase in anxiety and restlessness. Sometimes it can be associated with visual distortions, spatial distortions, ringing in the ears, or even muscle twitches on the face. But more importantly than all this - it is always tied to sensations in my gut, and sometimes it feels like I might have a stroke. It is literally intestinal 'mind-bending'.

And strokes HAVE been seen to occur in young users of MDMA.
Not all strokes result in paralysis, either.
In fact, I am prepared to believe that some small strokes may be necessary. Just to help re-distribute some of those capillaries...

In MDMA research that continued, the blood distribution was seen to return to normal! This is believed to be caused by re-innervation of serotonin axons, as well as modifications in other neurotransmitter systems.

Somehow, the brain is literally 're-wiring' itself.
This is the term agreed upon by nearly all in the field.
This is the minimum definition of 'toxicity'.

So, YES - long or pronounced alterations in blood flow is NOT what any MDMA user wants to experience. If you have had short-term 'brain-zaps' then you can actually imagine what it would be like to live with that for months. Avoid this fate at all costs.

This had to be a long answer, because this touches on the very core of the recovery experience. It is simultaneously the most difficult part of the process AND the most important.

I can tell that this 'mind-bending' is what is fixing me.
On several occasions I have noticed marked improvements in my perception of the world in the days following a bad episode. This seems to be a cycle that is continually replaying itself.

Also, I can feel my intestines starting to regain sensation AND function at the same time.
What is going on here is the 'gut' is literally 're-wiring' the brain.
That is my general assessment.

Next question...

I stated that the 'vast network of nerves (intestine to brain) CAN be damaged'.
You wanted to know whether or not there is 'definitive' knowledge about which drugs were being used and if the MDMA was adulterated...

This is a repetition of the initial defense.
No disrespect, but it is a sign that you are looking for reasons to continue doing the drug. If you are looking this hard, you need to ask yourself why.

You should accept this claim of mine as the minimum that has been established by the research.

Of course MDMA causes this.
This was already understood before we left the gate...

Lets see, how do I put this...

All MDMA research is studying the 'brain-gut' connection.
That's what the 5-ht system is.
Sure, it affects LOTS of other things, but digestion is its primary function.

All research showing 'toxicity' of MDMA is pointing at the 'brain-gut' connection.

So, YES - it is definitively understood that MDMA causes damage or 'alterations' to the 'brain-gut' circuitry.

All serotonergic drugs are targeting these 'brain-gut' circuits, which is WHY they have such wide-reaching and potent effects. LSD, mushrooms, mescaline, piperazines...these are all playing with these intestinal nerves IN the brain.

Again, no disrespect intended. This was just a firm response given for public benefit.

Next question...

You wanted to know if pre-disposition to psychological illness is responsible for the prevalence of disorders seen in former users...

Sure, this is a confounding factor.
A relatively small portion of the population uses MDMA, and perhaps a large percentage of these people are 'self-medicating'.

Even if this is true, it offers NO support to your desire to do MDMA.
You are still a part of this 'small' group, and thus you may be one of the 'pre-disposed'.

However, plenty or research points to the heavy users as having more depression or anxiety. Heavy is usually defined as 200-400 pills lifetime.

Mental-health workers in many different parts of the world will tell you that a large increase in the number of young people has been seen since MDMA use became prevalent.

There are many anecdotal reports that 'binging' is a VERY bad idea.
This is in line with much of the animal research which has shown that repeated heavy doses for several days in a row will produce 'long-term' serotonergic changes. Or 'toxicity'.

Which answers your next question...
Are there controlled studies that show toxicity is dose-dependent or is this just researchers opinions?

Honestly, how can you even question this one?

Dose-dependent toxicity is clearly shown in countless animal and human studies.

Call it 'toxicity', 're-wiring', or 'adaptation'....but ALL research shows that these alterations become more pronounced with repeated doses.

In fact, repeated doses are commonly used, because the researchers want to guarantee the presence of 'toxicity'.

The truth of dose=toxicity is the standard by which most of the 'controlled' animal research depends on.

Next question...

Has there been a 'control group' of 'healthy users' to see if depression and anxiety were still likely to occur?...

In a recent study, a very careful selective process was used to narrow down a sample of several hundred users to about 50.

Due to stringent restrictions, many people on Bluelight would also be eliminated for simply attending a rave or being a marijuana user...
Mental illness personally or in the family would also disqualify you...

The study found, with a small sample of qualified people, that MDMA didn't show any obvious signs of psychological problems.

Keep in mind, that these were probably moderate users.
They didn't do ANY other drugs, and they typically took their MDMA at home.

If you do not belong to this elite group, you cannot assume any safety from this increased risk of 'clinically significant' symptoms.

If you smoke marijuana, you are not only disqualified from this control group, but you are already pre-determined to be five times more likely to develop schizophrenia. This was determined using a very large scale military study!

There are plenty of former MDMA users that have described a period of depression, but many of them say it is transient.
It would appear that some sort of short-term 'mood-disturbance' is relatively common. Wouldn't it?

Although there are no such LARGE scale studies on MDMA users, it could be assumed that MDMA would have a higher impact on mental health than just marijuana alone.

For those that only roll once or twice a year, they would be unlikely to develop such severe problems. But for the 'repeated' dosers....the 'dose-dependent' ones...their risk goes up MUCH higher.

Again, no 'definitive' proof, just really solid supportive evidence.

Next question...

You want me to link to the study showing sexual dysfunction being caused by MDMA.

You got me on this one.
I wish I could...

But it simply isn't out there.
They do not ask the question.

I STRONGLY think that they should!

I have personally conversed with five MDMA users that have had major problems with sex drive and sexual function.
I have heard anecdotal stories about others, outside of this group.

I have also seen a group of hundreds of former SSRI users that claim the same problem. Interestingly, they also claim MANY of the other symptoms that former MDMA users have.

This overlap effect shows a correlation.
It is also important to point out that in recent SSRI research it has been determined that 60-80% of patients undergo some type of sexual problem!

This normally goes away after discontinuation, but for some it is long-term/permanent.

Initially, the manufacturers of the drugs were publishing MUCH lower instances of sexual problems. Around 5%.

This is because they only used studies of patients 6-8 weeks into treatment, when the effects are just starting to set in.
Also, they only recorded this data if the patient volunteered the information. They didn't even ask the question!

So the patients, in the early stages of treatment, would have to be so convinced that they were having sexual issues that they would speak up about them...

When these variables were changed: mandatory questioning of ALL patients long INTO therapy...the percentage of reported sexual side-effects skyrocketed.

So, it might be assumed that in MDMA research, this question also needs to become 'mandatory'.
I would expect that the 'heavy' user category would have a frequent occurrence of this phenomena...

Just so you know:

Your penis is attached to your rectal nerve and your prostate is attached to your gastric nerve. Women's cervix is attached to their vagus nerve, and actually subverts the spinal cord!

Doesn't it make sense that if the 'brain-gut' circuity is damaged, that sexual side-effects could ensue?

Just ask the former SSRI people I have emailed who claim 'absolutely no sensation during sex or orgasm'...or 'complete flatness and lack of emotion towards other people'.

There is enough evidence of sexual problems that you should be concerned.
The need for 'definitive' evidence shouldn't exist here.
Your dick is more important than that, right?

And finally...

Vit C and antioxidants....

You are correct, the dosage of Vit C necessary to protect against a proven toxic dose of MDMA was LARGE.

When I looked at the scaling, it appeared the dose required would be equivalent to taking 3 large VIT C tablets MANY times throughout the day. Before, during, and after the roll...
Definitely atypical...

The majority of users would be drinking orange juice, which falls drastically short of the requirement.

That is why I HIGHLY recommend the consumption of HIGH doses of Vit C throughout the day. When I am sick, I do this anyways. 3000mg, 3 times a day.

For MDMA, make it 6 times a day.
The stuff can't hurt you as there is no toxic dose with Vit C.
Some people experience stomach upset from it, I used to. But this is a small price to pay for the protection it 'probably' offers.

Also, consider that you may not be doing really high doses of MDMA...
It would be reasonable to assume that high/I] doses of Vit C could offer real protection for the moderate MDMA user...

Even if this is wrong, it can't hurt.

Ok...

Well, you are welcome.
And thank you, too....for the many questions.

edit: it seems to me that people that require definitive proof that something might be harmful, when there is a mountain of evidence that points to this conclusion...

are simply in denial about the truth.

Visit the advanced drug discussion board and they will call you a 'future e-tard'.

Please understand it was not my intent to be insulting to your many questions.
I genuinely mean no disrespect. I hope you are truly looking for information rather than simply trying to support your own pre-determined beliefs about a toxic drug that you lovingly protect.

However, I am surprised at how little is really known about the risks involved considering the number of users out there and the endless research done by science. This is the reason I am so insistent about what I know to be true...

Honestly, all of you...
can't you tell that it's a toxic substance when you take it??

Seriously, chew it up and hold it in your mouth next time. For a while...
Then tell me you still need definitive proof!

Doesn't it taste SO damn bitter that it makes your body shiver in disgust?
Isn't this response a classic sign of a poison?

Your body knows it is....that's why it takes so horrid if you chew it, and that is why it has such a powerful effect upon the body.

Accept the truth:

Only a poison could induce such a powerful and pleasurable experience!

Science does show that 'recovery' occurs eventually, but it also clearly shows that 're-wiring' of the brain is happening. Those of us in 'recovery' warn the rest of you: Avoid this fate at ALL costs.

Stop looking for definitive proof.
Accept the evidence that shows you are putting yourself at risk.
Do whatever you can to minimize this risk.
Accept the evidence that permanent alterations in your 'brain-gut' circuitry are happening already.

Test your stuff, know your dose, use LOTS of Vit C, and STOP rolling so much!

Seriously, how many times do you think you can really re-create the best night of your life?

 

[mgmt&mdma]

First Bad Comedown: dude REALLY nice post. IMO you know what your doing.

im not sure if you talked about it or not, but are the SSRI side effects permanent?

being the silly child i am i probably missed it

also- Vitamin C has been shown to be pro-oxidant, but only at high levels. i believe it was at 10g+, i can source it for you if ya want.

but all in all i learned alot from that post

 

[themachine]

thanks for all the info, im just trying to get educated

No disrespect, but it is a sign that you are looking for reasons to continue doing the drug.

absolutely, but i'm as much looking for reasons why I should limit my use

You should accept this claim of mine as the minimum that has been established by the research.

I do, my conflict comes down to whether i am going to have any noticeable damage. There are alot of things that definitely are really bad for you but you can get away with without lasting negative effects. Not great analogies here but I hope you get what i'm saying: a kid with ADD taking ritalin everyday for years, drinking yourself stupid 3 days a week for years, eating 5 double bacon cheeseburgers a week.

In a recent study, a very careful selective process was used to narrow down a sample of several hundred users to about 50.

Due to stringent restrictions, many people on Bluelight would also be eliminated for simply attending a rave or being a marijuana user...
Mental illness personally or in the family would also disqualify you...

I guess here's where it narrows for me specifically, I don't use marijuana or any other drugs, I have no history of mental illness in the family, and I am mentally healthy person.

There are plenty of former MDMA users that have described a period of depression, but many of them say it is transient.
It would appear that some sort of short-term 'mood-disturbance' is relatively common. Wouldn't it?

Yes definitely, but I have never experienced it after about 8 times and I know people who had the blues for days after every use. I had one weekend where I used 3 times in 4 days and I had not an ounce of brain fog or hangover. If I get to 20 or 30 times and i'm still not experiencing an ounce of depression, what would that mean? anything?

I have also seen a group of hundreds of former SSRI users that claim the same problem. Interestingly, they also claim MANY of the other symptoms that former MDMA users have.

I assume SSRI users are taking their pills everyday? Is MDMA that much stronger that once or twice a month on a moderate dose will have the same effect?

edit: it seems to me that people that require definitive proof that something might be harmful, when there is a mountain of evidence that points to this conclusion...

Here's where I am coming from: every "I'm permanently messed up from E" story i've read has come with one of these: a MASSIVE amount of pills(not molly) or anxiety or other issues that were always present. I have yet to read the story of an intelligent, mentally healthy person using mostly molly 1-2 times a month and saying they are permanently changed. I did recently read a story from someone on here in med school that had been using at least once a month for years and he has reported no ill effects, he also had a very strict regimen for responsible use(antioxidants etc).

This is why I need to see evidence to the contrary, as it appears that the people being permanently messed up fall into one of two categories neither of which I'm in: absurd amounts of pills or mental health issues. I'm looking for evidence to the contrary because I know that a collection of stories on bluelight is not proof of anything, but so far seems quite convincing.

are simply in denial about the truth.

Here's what has been established scientifically as truth: 1. MDMA is neurotoxic. 2. Heavy long term users show permanent negative effects. What has not been proven is that MDMA alone is the direct cause of these effects. The other factors here have the potential for just as much if not more impact than the MDMA, other drugs consumed and history of mental illness.

Please understand it was not my intent to be insulting to your many questions. I genuinely mean no disrespect.

Not at all I appreciate the time you took to answer

I hope you are truly looking for information rather than simply trying to support your own pre-determined beliefs about a toxic drug that you lovingly protect.

Absolutely, my goal here is find scientific evidence one way or the other about users that are similar to me: no mental issues, no other drug use period, and not using more than 2-3 times a month. Maybe that's too narrow or unreasonable but I don't think so as these could all be the factors contributing to the permanent effects.

Seriously, how many times do you think you can really re-create the best night of your life?

so far every time

 

[freehugs]

First Bad Comedown I have a question for you. Would all of the side effects and things that you have said about MDMA apply to all MDxx chemicals? I'm mainly referring to MDA.

 

[ektamine]

MDxx chemicals shouldn't really be held to the same standards as each other, as they can vary greatly, so much in some cases that they don't have many similarities at all. Take MDPV and MDMA for example.

One is a psychedelic serotonin-releasing substituted amphetamine, while the other is a cathinone, an analogue of pyrovalerone, which just happens to have a methylenedioxy ring. It is mainly a dopamine reuptake inhibitor (same as cocaine), it has little or no activity on serotonin.

The difference between MDA and MDMA is much like the difference between amphetamine and methamphetamine, it doesn't have anything to do with the MD ring.

But as a general rule of thumb, MDA and MDMA will share most of the same risks and side-effects, except that MDA is more neurotoxic than MDMA.

 

[freehugs]

MDxx chemicals shouldn't really be held to the same standards as each other, as they can vary greatly, so much in some cases that they don't have many similarities at all. Take MDPV and MDMA for example.

One is a psychedelic serotonin-releasing substituted amphetamine, while the other is a cathinone, an analogue of pyrovalerone, which just happens to have a methylenedioxy ring. It is mainly a dopamine reuptake inhibitor (same as cocaine), it has little or no activity on serotonin.

The difference between MDA and MDMA is much like the difference between amphetamine and methamphetamine, it doesn't have anything to do with the MD ring.

But as a general rule of thumb, MDA and MDMA will share most of the same risks and side-effects, except that MDA is more neurotoxic than MDMA.

Thank you sir There are a couple of dubstep events coming up that I need to tell you about as well!

Turns out I haven't remotely lost the magic and my tolerance isn't that bad at all. We gave the same MDMA we've been taking to our friend who took it for his first experience and he had the exact same mediocre reaction to it as we've been having when he should've been rolling absolute balls. Simply put, it's unanimous that this MDMA is lacking so I will no longer be doing any further business with this source.

Good plan. You should call him out as well. And tell everyone who buys from him because thats just shady.

 

[Renz Envy]

I'm of the opinion that a lot of the harm done while on MDMA is situational use. Consider that most of the people I've rolled with completely neglect their health mid-roll.


I don't doubt that repeated use and re-dosing will prove neurotoxicity. But I'm of the belief that the body will always recover from light trauma. Therefore I wouldn't imagine permanent effects to become apparent in someone who uses 100-200mg every 2-3 months.

When you find out what receptors in the brain it binds to that cause long-term damage I would like to know. I find the theory about prolactin reduction to be interesting. I do feel less inclined to do stupid/risky things now that Ive had a couple of rolls.

Also MDMA is an NorEp inhibitor as well. Could this cause long term damage and reduction of adrenaline? Aka Adrenal fatigue?

For everyone else: I find that exercise is the best way to eliminate post-roll brain fog. Eat a lot, drink water and get an hour in the gym.

 

[MasterSplinter]

^^The thing you all need to know about eaten beans like madmen is that eventually it will catch up with you and you will feel depressed so please take that into considertaion before you post.

 

[themachine]

^^The thing you all need to know about eaten beans like madmen is that eventually it will catch up with you and you will feel depressed so please take that into considertaion before you post.

thats the thing buddy, not all of us "eat beans like madmen". no beans at all, just good clean molly once or twice a month, not within the same week, no redose, 150-200mg. i saw you talking about having NINE pills saved up for a weekend

 

[trancerage]

Damn it, have I lost it????

Oh shit.. well, I cant belive Im writing this, but... what I kind of think I lost the magic.. sht..

I used to have a pretty high tolerance to MDXX back in 2008-mid 2009, but from there all the way through this year, I've rolled probably about 4 - 6 times tops (and not always with good stuff)... been pretty clean, I would've guest my tolerance would've gone down drastically...

Anyways, I remember that I used to double drop or at least drop and a half so I can get rolling, then drop once more or then depending on what I have on hands, god knows how many times more... the point is that I used think that no matter what the ammout of MDMA you get into your body total, the first dose is the one setting how hard you are going to roll, IE: if you dose low first (lets say 80-100 mg), then next redose (unless is between the first hour of the peak), then redose again ending up lets say 300 mg total in a night, the roll you will feel is the roll of the first 80 mg, then just making that roll last longer with the subsecuents doses... Well, I hope thats the case (I kind of figured that out by experience lol) becasue this las weekend I went through almost 500 mg of pure mandy plus a Qdance and it didnt really do much... I started with 120-140 mg mdma (my scale isnt the best, so I guess 10-20 mg will be off) along with 120 mg 4-fa... yeah it kicked and feelt good, but it defenetly wasnt a mindblowing experience, and I was kind of rolling, wich could have come from the 4-fa itself... then proceed on to chasing a high that was not going to be there for sure... sweeting like a mother fucker but not getting the "love" ....

I really hope it was my mistake, or that the stuff was a bunch of sht, wich Im pretty sure it wasnt, since ppl around me were rolling their asses off... So I figured that my tolerance is not as low as I thought it would be, and that it was just a mistake on the dosis, I need to take at least 150 - 180 mg for the fist dose to get me rolling... I will try this after 4 more weeks, I just hope I havent lose the magic... shit that will suck.

what do you guys think?