[MEGA]Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences Part 5 (2012-2013)

[lovepsychadelics]

Cutting healthy leaves? Surely common sense would tell you this is not a good idea. It's not the light shining on buds that makes them swell, it's the light that shines on the green parts of the plant which produce energy via photosynthesis that makes them swell. So if you cut healthy leaves off, you are cutting the plant's food supply off and the buds will get less energy and be smaller.
..............................

God I absolutely loooove mattocks. It is by far, my favorite garden tool. There's no way I would be able to cultivate the earth at my guerrilla site with just a garden fork.

Thanks mate.

About pollination, personally I've come to really think highly of purpose-made pollination bags. They are manufactured with a special breathable, washable, re-usable material and a viewing window made of a special plastic used for this purpose. The male produces it's pollen, and is collected in the pollination bag which keeps it safe inside, away from neighboring females. It's great for outdoor breeding and IMO is one of those things that is an investment.

Fuck wish I had these things 8 years ago!

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Yeah Artificial Emotion all that rain would suck. What is it with the UK and rain??? BTW I've only grown hydro/indoors while living in Australia but were I was born (a tiny island in the middle of nowhere) everyone who wants to smoke grows their own and they grow enough for the entire year (that or try and rip other peoples hard toil off... all kinds of fun with guns may ensure and I have a few stories, no one got shot although how they were not is a minor miracle, maybe a stray bit of buckshot...) One guy got his strain (inbred to all fuck and a hybrid of Thai and ye 1700's English ship rope making cannabis that grows wild) tested and it was 15% THC. Not bad for outdoor cultivation without clones.

Nice volcanic soil, good temperate climate the only thing lacking is a steady supply of water unless you store it when it rains. This in turn can cause issues as you need to oxygenate it a little (a fish tank pump works wonders, or those oxygen stones). When it rains it does to excess so the emphasis on good soil drainage is a must. Seems like you got your grow sorted ! Getting rid of those nasty pots allows your plants to really max out and you need not worry about root bound mullies just make sure you dig the hole 1/2 or a bit more than what you want your trees to be and make it wide as well. A 6 foot hole means an easy 12 foot tree depending on the strain. Have seen walking canes carved from a single plant stem. Also have seen trees much bigger than 12 foot...

Not my babies though I used to concentrate on bud density, flavor and fucking grunt. Outdoor weed can compete with the best hydro in my experience. However some mates made mistakes like not flushing prior to harvest and using dynamic lifter, blood and bone right up until harvest. I think that flushing and ensuring no nutrients other than those already bio-available in the soil really makes the weed taste so much better than force feeding nutrients until D-day. That weed tasted like shit and was harsh as fuck, when my mates offered some of their home grown to other older lads (more experienced growers, tips were handed down from older guys to younger ones) they'd have a toke choke and say "what the fuck have you done? Your weed tastes like shit!" and they would smoke no more, just roll a J of their own and pass it on over saying "weed should taste like this, not like shit" lol.

One old fella was suss on me ripping off his tree (It was a mother fucking monster 2nd or 3rd year looked like a bonsai weeping willow head high and dense as fuck, branches hung to the ground from the top, It'd been tipped/cut the crown each year) until we found out the culprit (dumb asses sold this guys step son a COFFEE JAR full of pilfered bud). That and the 30 baby mullies I'd been growing for his step son cleared my name. He was suss cause I was mates with his step son and we were drinking n smoking and one of the fella's was in the bog so I went outside for a piss and actually pissed on this thing not realizing what it was. Next thing I hear "Hey watcha doin?" and I'm "taking a piss" then I hear "Your pissing on my plant!" I was so shamefaced and said sorry I didn't even realize what it was. This guy had spent a few years inside Longbay (a fairly hardcore aussie jail) and was known to have smashed a guys hand with a hammer who he suspected of ripping him off so I was shit scared when I heard he was suss on me.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Yeah freehugs as you stated: "harvesting the main colas so that the other buds can adequately mature. We do that at our garden and harvesting the main tops especially allows for the side branches to bulk up and kind of become tops." We call that "tipping" (not all ozzies just the place I grew up as far as I know, which is technically part of Australia but there is a lot of ocean between Aus and that place) it really makes the remaining buds fatten up. Also if done at the right stage of the plants growth you can end up with 4 or more "heads". These usually require staking out to ensure the various heads on the one plant don't compete with each other to much. I can vouch for more stress= more THC just don't overdo it... Fuck this thread makes me wanna start a little indoor, pity my neighbors would be instantly onto me . Growing dope can be as technical as growing hybrid roses or grafted cacti... so much fun!!!

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Just a question for my own curiosity but do many of you cultivate colonies of good microbes and introduce them into your soil/substrate/nutrient feed when planting outdoors or growing hydroponic. Also substrates vs garden soil what do most of you use or prefer and if using regular soil do many of you add say as an example perlyte or similar to increase drainage. If using substrates what are your preferences and why?

I loved coconut husk aka coca peat mixed with perlyte as substrate indoors in pots with a trickle nutrient feed, drainage tray and nutrient reservoir oxygenated by a simple fish tank pump and cooled by a fan. Also the reservoir is as far away from the lights as possible to prevent excessive heat and microbial colonization. This means using various pumps on timers to facilitate the nutrient feed arriving at the plants and the run off being collected and transported to the reservoir. Nutrient feed changed on a weekly basis or more frequently depending on growth stage and nutrients being added or removed etc. Ph balance maintained by Ph meter immersed in nutrient reservoir and routinely observed and acid/base liquid added to balance ph as required. I used citric acid (fruity!!) and whatever the hydro shop recommended as a base... can't remember 2008-9 was my last grow... Damn early dementia!!!

 

[babylonboy]

+1 to mattocks. Big in the game.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

^ they really are life savers. I literally would simply be unable to fully cultivate the earth without it. Even pulling the roots as hard as I can, or chopping them with a garden spade is not sufficient, but the mattock makes light work of it. It's the best gardening tool I've ever used and once the ground is cultivated with a mattock for the first time and the thick roots are chopped up and removed, in subsequent years you only need to go over it with a gardening fork, which is quick and easy.

Just a question for my own curiosity but do many of you cultivate colonies of good microbes and introduce them into your soil/substrate/nutrient feed when planting outdoors or growing hydroponic. Also substrates vs garden soil what do most of you use or prefer and if using regular soil do many of you add say as an example perlyte or similar to increase drainage. If using substrates what are your preferences and why?

In soilless mixes and in the ground (particularly in the ground) I use Plant Magic Granules:

Granules is a granular innoculant made up of Mycorrhiza, bio-stimulants and over 20 strains
of microorganisms. All these work to create an abundance of beneficial micro life within the soil.



The Mycorrhiza quickly establishes itself forming a symbiotic relationship with the roots.

This in turn promotes a rapidly growing root mass increasing the uptake of more water and

nutrients.


The Microorganisms, which include nitrogen fixers, populate the soil quickly and effectively to promote the

re-establishment of bio-activity. A barrier is formed helping to stop fungal pathogens such as fusarium and pythium attacking your crop.


Granules available in 350g & 700gThe bio-stimulants both balance and promote the biological activity within the soil, stimulating soil micro-population as
well as stimulating root development.

I also do my own actively aerated compost teas (AACTs). IMHO most of the AACTs growers (particularly those who grow cannabis) use are unlikely to work because they are often based simply on anecdotal advice found online rather than from scientific evidence. Dr. Elaine Ingham's research, particularly in the guide she wrote, 'the compost tea brewing manual', has proved invaluable to me. I use one or two of her recipes since when followed to the letter, is proven to work i.e. the microbial, protozoa, nematode etc. populations fluorish as shown by lab analysis. One of the biggests mistakes growers make is not understanding the purpose of AACTs - it is not to fertilise your plants but to inoculate the substrate with a food web largely consisting of microbes microbes etc. So the excessive use of organic fertilisers is to be avoided, especially when one would be using fertilisers separately anyway.

The other mistake is not using the correct brewing method or AACT brewer. If you're going to do it properly you really want to get a commercially manufactured brewer - one that research has shown to work since a lot of them on the market simply do not aerate the mix well enough. Mine has a special frame that disperses the bubbles from special tubing around a frame that suspends a porous pouch from above that contains the compost. It's clean, convenient and works - once the brewing cycle is done, the bag is unclipped, unzipped and the contents are simply dumped, so there's no messy brew to deal with since it's ready to spray, as is. One of the best purchases I've ever made!

In hydroponics I have experimented with special microbial products designed specifically for hydroponics, made by Viresco. I trust that company much more than cannabis-specific companies like Advanced Nutrients. A lot of these companies are so unethical I just don't trust their products.

In general personally I am anti-perlite because I don't think it works like people think it does, but also because there's the slight risk of health complications if you don't take the right health precautions when handling it. It's larger chunks of things like composted bark, with large air spaces which, when added to your medium, will improve drainage. Also the soil physics of your container makes a difference, with taller, thinner containers draining better than shorter, wider containers. I am fully aware many will disagree with this, but there many cannabis related myths. The whole perlite things is interesting because it started amongst canna growers in the 1960s when they were using enormous pots and it's stuck every since. Perlite does have a place in hydroponics or for seedlings for example, but just not in the way people think.

I prefer growing in the ground because it's more organic. If in good soil, the plant has a better supply of all the minerals it needs and watering is far far less of a concern. Some people have even gotten away with no watering, if using good soil with a thick mulch and amended with plenty of organic matter like horse manure and/or garden compost. In the earth, the best way to improve drainage is to add organic matter and this is also the best way to improve water retention, too. When you plant a cannabis plant in the soil, the feeder roots almost exclusively spread in the surface layer of the soil, so cultivating a very large shallow area no deeper than 6" allows the plant to thrive. I've seen people dig holes and fill it with all sorts and whilst this works, if you have half decent soil it's far far better to cultivate the soil and amend it. Even if the soil is poor, heavy clay, or even sandy, in most cases you can still turn it into lovely organic-rich crumbly soil if you add enough organic matter. Horse manure is cheap, garden compost is cheap or even free, so if you can, it's best to dig in as much as you can. Digging holes is often a bad idea because it can act as a sump, sucking in water from the surrounding soil. A lot of people have had success taking dry compressed bricks of coco coir and using water at the site to rehydrate it before digging it into the soil like compost. It works really well.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

I used a dust mask when handling perlyte and I used it cause it was cheap (or free) and easily available. I agree 100% with everything you have stated even though I'm a canna coconut peat and perlyte user for hydro and were I was born and did all my outdoor growing there was almost 0 alternatives to perlyte other than sand (beach sand which needs to be left for weeks and watered etc to remove the salt content) or wood chip mulch. It's just ingrained habit due to having 0 alternatives. I had to order in fertilizer and the microbial colonies myself when growing outdoors so I had very little choice. I think canna and 1 other company, also this was a decade ago. Microbes are there to make the fertilizer/organic matter more bio available for the plant to digest and to create a symbiosis with the plant and it's root system. Chelated nutrients are most effective when the microbes are able to process the nutrients and thereby making them available to the plant. Advanced Nutrients I'm sure were the "organic" plant food I was using for a bit in my hydro system but I found some local Australian companies that had far better products for a lower cost resulting in win win!

I really prefered sand or wood chips to perlyte (but I had access to loads of free perlyte) in order to increase drainage and a large amount of say banana skins, orange peels etc at the base of the hole when planting outdoors. Lots of older guys used fish skeletons as they work, were easily available just from a fishing trip and seemed to really give the plant extra growing power once the root system reached the decayed remains. Add some slow release nitrate and potassium crystals the Mycorrhiza powder mixed with H2O. Can't remember the brand but it was basically 15 or so different species of good fungi. This was the only product of it's type I could get at the time. Most of my mates just used soil, thrive, blood and bone and chicken shit pellets (to excess in some cases, the idea of a microbial colony breaking down nutrients didn't register. They thought the plant just "ate" the fertilizer all on it's own). I only used the complete tea (bacteria, nematode, protozoa etc) in hydroponic systems.

Also I used water crystals at the base of the hole just a small handful. This was also part of the reason for the 6 foot hole. Despite heavy rains you'd get dry spells that could last months at a time and when your using stored rain water to drink and bathe in watering plants kind of takes a back seat. Despite this I'd endeavor to have a small drip feed or inverted litter bottles with growth or bloom solutions (also the P,K thing at 3rd-4th week of the flowering cycle) which would trickle feed nutrients and moisture to the plants (another reason for the deep holes as the top layer of soil would dry to powder very quickly). The Mycorrhiza would break down the organic matter in the soil and enhance the root structure, this was evident the first time I used them vs the previous years crop when I didn't. I only discovered them because of the local palm seed industry and the germination facilities (which I raided for supplies, like most other guys my age lol.)

6 ft is as deep as you want to go for sure and nice and wide as well or do you mean 6 inches? I used sprouting bags that would have the plant develop 10 inch roots at planting time (tall and thin). Perhaps I've not been as specific as I could: you'd dig the hole and refill it with the organic material and soil, slow release crystals, water crystals, perlyte/sand/wood chip, worms etc until it the base of the planter was resting on the refilled material and the seedling's base was level with the soils surface and then you would plant out your baby. Then water the seedling in with the Mycorrhiza solution via watering can/bucket or whatever was handy. Also a quick water with a very diluted nutrient feed and an inverted bottle/hose with hole trickle feed set up.

Volcanic soil is just brilliant so the main issue I had was ensuring that heavy rains didn't saturate the soil and cause root rot. The other was drought. Also planting amid lantana thickets provided camo and good soil conditions. Just cleared out the majority and had over head branches as cover/camo. Made sure there were no lantana roots when digging holes so they didn't compete with the mullies. I'd make the soil loose and not overly compact and add some worms I'd gathered from the vege garden (a bucket full for say 10 plants) The lose soil seemed to increase the plants growth vs the compacted versions some of my mates used they'd really bash the soil down firm with a spade or trenching tool.

Grow techniques like staking and tipping were passed on from older guys who had grown dope for decades in some cases, although many of the old school were very much dig a hole chuck a fish skeleton in add some blood n bone, make sure it's good soil with worms and near a stream and leave it. Pruning paint and neem oil spray, snail bait were things we picked up by going to the only commercial nursery there was.

Holes may act as sumps in wet conditions but having the extreme of heavy rain and drought the holes which were basically refilled with rich organic matter and good drainage material seemed to actually enhance the plants growth. Also note the outdoor grows were on the side of step valleys/ridges so the sump issue was minimal. The roots would be an average of 3 feet into the soil and much wider across. The "hole" really was basically just soil that had been enhanced with organic matter, improved drainage, slow release fertilizer, water crystals at depth and Mycorrhiza and worms. I can see this method being unsuccessful in a damp climate with fairly constant rainfall especially the sue of water crystals. Some people didn't even have water for bathing during the dry spells if they didn't have a large enough collection tank of water. Most people just swam in the ocean and that was a "Bath". There is no way unless planting near a permanent water source that you could get away without watering your plants in the climate I did my outdoors they would get heat stress and just die. Nothing worse than 32 degrees and your trees look like shriveled up sticks.

Reading your post has made me realize how different environments really do impact growing methods. I'm sure if I tried my technique in the UK it'd fail miserably and I'd get root rot/bud rot etc if I even got a plant to that stage outdoors. My hats of to you Artificial Emotion you have your grow down to a fine art ! Yeah the coco brick things we started to use just before I moved to Australia and It was my brother and his mates who found them in the nursery. Damn... One harvest of manicured buds would cover an area of 5 meters squared easily 30 + trees, we used those really big blue tarps to sort the buds for curing after hanging and drying for 2 weeks. Once we even had some guys rip us off. Five of them were only able to carry 6 plants out. Bad shit happened after that... one of the thief's murdered someone but that had nothing to do with my grow (my brother had shown 1 of these guy's and sure enough that is all it takes) and another was an accomplice. Fucking sad bad shit those guys were total dicks. I'd let them rip me off a dozen times if it meant they wouldn't have murdered anyone.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Yeah after the hole is refilled with organic matter, improved soil the water crystals and all the rest I'd have the planter/seedling bag depth so the hole really is only 10 inches that the plant goes into but all the rest it's prep work. I don't mean that your planting 6 ft under that's were the organic compost like fruit peels water crystals go so there is a water reserve but it wont cause excessive moisture to be retained near the root system. Then the hole it's refilled with the improved soil, worms etc. I don't think I made that much sense before in my previous post as rereading it seemed like I was going to bury the plants 6 ft under. In reality I doubt I ever went quite that far more like 4-5 foot but my bro was always like 6 ft deep as possible while I was like yeah near enough is good enough lets just get everything in here and plant the little bastard cause we still got 30 or so to go. Also digging down like that removed a lot of the lantana roots reducing competition from the scrub cover. Also we'd plant cherry tomato's in the patch to try an make the area look more like a thicket from the air. They didn't have infra red camera's but the police did do spotting in a little single engine plane from time to time.

Now days my bro just digs enough soil out to plant the tree so the base of the stem sits level with the top of the soil level but his only get 4-5 foot high as he has to do an urban grow. When we were growing them back then they'd be like 10-12 foot unless we wanted to tip them and make the buds nice and dense, stake down the multiple crowns etc.

So you just grub out enough to plant from the seed raising pots/bags and some extra area around for the roots to grow out. How moist is the soil is it like damp say 6 inches down? Your in the UK and I've seen a fair bit but I've not been to Kent and I'm guessing the soil would be fairly moist most of the year and it'd be moist like just a few inches under the surface? Damn that would mean if you got your soil and microbial tea down pat you could almost walk away and just come back every so often to check on them. No need for drip feeds or much watering at all it'd just be the soil and microbes doing the work for you after you got it sorted. But you said bud rot was an issue cause of all the moisture.

Advantages and disadvantages! Wow I never thought that climate and rainfall would make such a big difference. There was almost no moisture unless it had recently rained at least 2 feet or more down for us (middle of the coral sea of the coast of Australia basically) but we could grow all year while you guys (unless germinating indoors) can only grow for the spring summer and harvest autumn? Mate thanks for all your info this has really opened my eyes to alternative methods and how to deal with different climates and growing periods etc. Simply fascinating... Maybe I can get a small 2 plant system going in my apartment. Nah I can hear my neighbors talking next door as I type. Maybe i could convince my GF to start a small grow of 1-2 plants at her house! One can dream !

 

[Artificial Emotion]

lovepsycadelics, I see where I confused you in my post above. " means inches and ' means feet. For example if you wanted to write 6 foot 5 inches, you would write 6'5". I just use it as a shorthand myself because I'm lazy lol.

About the perlite thing, don't get me wrong, when I say it has a place, I definitely mean there are legit uses. Hydroponics is one of them, particularly things like hempy buckets, although IMO if you can get it, pure fytocell performs better however it really can be hard to get hold of. Another use is sprinkling on top of the soil when germinating seeds and loads of other uses.

I personally haven't gotten on well with polymer crystals for cannabis but if you really are suffering a dry spell I can see them being very useful. I like the idea of something like this though:

But again, I'm getting out of the habit of growing in containers completely, because growing in the ground could mean the difference between lugging gallons and gallons every other day and watering just a few times throughout the whole growing season. Pots really are only appropriate when you have a copious amount of water from the mains or a river, not guerrilla growing because in the summer it's just too impractical. Unfortunately I found this out the hard way - never again will I do that.

About how moist the soil is 6 inches down, well it's not so wet that it's waterlogged and muddy and it's easy enough to work with a mattock and gardening fork. It's certainly not dry either, which makes it impossible to dig. Clay soil, which is what I deal with, retains water quite well. I only apply AACTs to the soil once since I seal it in with a thick mulch. My plants always yield more with a thick mulch, plus it makes watering less often possible. Apart from adding loads of organic matter the only other thing I do is add copious amounts of rockdust and sweeten with dolomite lime. The worms and soil food web do the rest.

 

[drug_mentor]

So my older plants have got a phosphorous deficiency, from the looks of things it has progressed a bit, at first I wondered if some lower leaves were dying naturally and then it took me a few days to really have time to actually diagnose them.

They are in a seedling soil that says it has controlled release ferts for 3 months, an age which they have not reached yet, even if they were to have used all that I fed my oldest one the other day and it made no difference.

I had an inclination that this may be a ph issue since I have just been watering with tap water and it can be alkaline in this part of the world. The other day I got one of those Ph prong meters that you poke into the ground and after a bit of fucking around to get it right it seemed to be telling me the ph around my roots is about a 7 or so. Was ready to try and lower the ph when I read multiple sources saying these type of ph meters were absolute rubbish and not really to be trusted. So I went yesterday afternoon out and bought some aquarium ph testing strips.

I just checked the ph of the tap water today, and it is about 7.5, so I then watered the plant showing the worst signs of phosphorous deficiency and allowed a good amount of run off to collect in a container under the pot. I checked the ph of the run off and it came up about a solid 7. I know that this is definitely too alkaline for cannabis, but it seems to me it is not dramatically alkaline to the point it should be the sole cause of a phosphorous deficiency? I really hope it is just the ph that is off but I would of expected the ph to be higher than 7 before P locked out, I am obviously not an expert though hence why I am coming here for advice...

Basically I just wanted to get an experienced opinion on whether my P deficiency could be caused solely by a ph of around 7. If this alone would not be enough to cause that then any suggestions of what else may be at play would be fantastic.

I would also appreciate any suggestions on how to lower my ph quickly and effectively. I have some lemons growing in my backyard, I was thinking that adding some fresh squeezed lemon juice to the water before my next couple waterings would be a good way to go, the thing is I don't really know how much lemon juice to use or how many waterings it would take to get my ph down to an optimum level, which I understand to be between 5.5 and 6.5 for cannabis grown in soil. I also don't know if this might be a bad idea for other reasons like adding certain non beneficial bacteria to the soil or something.

Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated as I would love to get my plants back on track ASAP!

EDIT- After a bit more research it seems it is possible for P to lock out of soil with a ph just over 7, seen a couple places say that lemon juice is fine to reduce ph. I think I am going to mix up some water and lemon juice until it has a ph of about 6 and give my babies a good watering. Hoping that this will fix the issue, atleast after a few waterings.

Would still love to hear any experienced opinions on this, I have had a hectic week or so and have let this progress further than I should so I am just trying to get on top of it ASAP.

 

[drug_mentor]

I hate to bump my own question but it has been a couple days and I am a little worried. I tried flushing the plants with water which had lemon juice added, didn't seem to make much difference so the next day I got some ph down and make a solution with a ph of around 6 and tried flushing the plants with this. I didn't use heaps of water for either flush, but they aren't in large pots at the moment (125mm diameter) and I don't see much of a guideline on how much to actually use. I probably only used about a litre or so per plant of the ph down adjusted solution, since I flushed with the water+lemon juice the day before I didn't want to give too much water. I guess I would like to know if I did the right thing and what would be some indications I fixed my problem, I suppose the issues wouldn't just disappear straight away. I have checked my run off water and the ph seems correct, but if the water I am using is that ph to begin with and it runs straight through of course it would look okay, that doesn't necessarily mean the medium isn't still alkaline though, does it?

If anybody with experience could please tell me if I did the right thing, if not what the right course of action would be (including how much water to actually use for a flush and the right ph) and how I would be able to tell that I had corrected my problem. I am starting to freak out a bit as my oldest plants are looking a bit worse for wear and it is too late in the season to start new ones from scratch that will turn out as big.

I have been trying to find information on flushing but it seems to me all the information out there is kind of vague or is mostly talking about flushing plants of nutrients prior to harvest. Maybe it is the same procedure? Seriously if someone could help me out and ease my mind on this I would greatly appreciate it!

I also have a question regarding perlite and ph, would plants in a mixture of soil and perlite take on the alkalinity of water with a ph of 7-7.5 more readily than plants just in soil? The reason that I ask is that my plant in straight soil has not shown any signs of these deficiencies (it is a different strain though), despite being watered with the exact same water. My friends who grow outdoors and don't use perlite have never encountered this problem either and I assume their water is roughly as alkaline as mine since we live in the same area. It doesn't make that much difference as most of my plants have some perlite mixed with the soil anyway, I am just curious for future reference.

 

[the toad]

^some things to consider


Mychorrizae explained

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Here's some outdoor pics from my harvest.

 

[drug_mentor]

^some things to consider


Mychorrizae explained

Thanks for your response dude, I do appreciate it. I have to say though I am a little confused after watching that second video, it doesn't seem to me that is a solution to ph problems at all? I get that it relates to phosphorous, but if I have a ph that prevents the plant from being able to use it then are these fungi going to make it available to the plant regardless? Even if they would, it seems to me like it would be sensible for me to correct the ph issue as well for the sake of being thorough.

Aside from that, I have invested a bit of coin in various ways of testing ph and on ph adjusting chemicals, due to this I would really prefer to sort my issue by putting these items that I have paid for to use and without having to go out and buy something else, my babies only even went outside a week ago and already I have spent more than I anticipated between things I had to get for plant care and also the necessary investments to make my plot secure.

If someone could please just give me a tried and true forumula on how to flush alkaline soil for cannabis that would be great, as in, how much water and what ph to use. I am increasingly confident that the steps I have taken should correct the issue, and the fact it is pissing down with rain today (I read rainwater has a ph of like 5.6 or something) should probably help things as well. It would be good for future reference though to know the proper way to do it, and also if there is any easy way to tell that my plants are feeding on the P and zinc again? How long does it usually take for the plant to recover after the soil has been flushed? Am I correct in assuming that leaves that have started to die off as a result of the deficiency are not going to bounce back but rather die eventually?

AE beautiful plant dude! I hope mine look half as good when they are ready!

 

[freehugs]

So my older plants have got a phosphorous deficiency, from the looks of things it has progressed a bit, at first I wondered if some lower leaves were dying naturally and then it took me a few days to really have time to actually diagnose them.

They are in a seedling soil that says it has controlled release ferts for 3 months, an age which they have not reached yet, even if they were to have used all that I fed my oldest one the other day and it made no difference.

I had an inclination that this may be a ph issue since I have just been watering with tap water and it can be alkaline in this part of the world. The other day I got one of those Ph prong meters that you poke into the ground and after a bit of fucking around to get it right it seemed to be telling me the ph around my roots is about a 7 or so. Was ready to try and lower the ph when I read multiple sources saying these type of ph meters were absolute rubbish and not really to be trusted. So I went yesterday afternoon out and bought some aquarium ph testing strips.

I just checked the ph of the tap water today, and it is about 7.5, so I then watered the plant showing the worst signs of phosphorous deficiency and allowed a good amount of run off to collect in a container under the pot. I checked the ph of the run off and it came up about a solid 7. I know that this is definitely too alkaline for cannabis, but it seems to me it is not dramatically alkaline to the point it should be the sole cause of a phosphorous deficiency? I really hope it is just the ph that is off but I would of expected the ph to be higher than 7 before P locked out, I am obviously not an expert though hence why I am coming here for advice...

Basically I just wanted to get an experienced opinion on whether my P deficiency could be caused solely by a ph of around 7. If this alone would not be enough to cause that then any suggestions of what else may be at play would be fantastic.

I would also appreciate any suggestions on how to lower my ph quickly and effectively. I have some lemons growing in my backyard, I was thinking that adding some fresh squeezed lemon juice to the water before my next couple waterings would be a good way to go, the thing is I don't really know how much lemon juice to use or how many waterings it would take to get my ph down to an optimum level, which I understand to be between 5.5 and 6.5 for cannabis grown in soil. I also don't know if this might be a bad idea for other reasons like adding certain non beneficial bacteria to the soil or something.

Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated as I would love to get my plants back on track ASAP!

EDIT- After a bit more research it seems it is possible for P to lock out of soil with a ph just over 7, seen a couple places say that lemon juice is fine to reduce ph. I think I am going to mix up some water and lemon juice until it has a ph of about 6 and give my babies a good watering. Hoping that this will fix the issue, atleast after a few waterings.

Would still love to hear any experienced opinions on this, I have had a hectic week or so and have let this progress further than I should so I am just trying to get on top of it ASAP.

Hey man can you post some pics? That would help above all else haha.

Oh and also, a soil with ph of 7 is fine. Cannabis thrives in 6.5-6.8ph, so like I said, 7 is fine. And from my chart it looks like phosphorus doesn't get locked out until 8 and then at around 5.

I hate to bump my own question but it has been a couple days and I am a little worried. I tried flushing the plants with water which had lemon juice added, didn't seem to make much difference so the next day I got some ph down and make a solution with a ph of around 6 and tried flushing the plants with this. I didn't use heaps of water for either flush, but they aren't in large pots at the moment (125mm diameter) and I don't see much of a guideline on how much to actually use. I probably only used about a litre or so per plant of the ph down adjusted solution, since I flushed with the water+lemon juice the day before I didn't want to give too much water. I guess I would like to know if I did the right thing and what would be some indications I fixed my problem, I suppose the issues wouldn't just disappear straight away. I have checked my run off water and the ph seems correct, but if the water I am using is that ph to begin with and it runs straight through of course it would look okay, that doesn't necessarily mean the medium isn't still alkaline though, does it?

If anybody with experience could please tell me if I did the right thing, if not what the right course of action would be (including how much water to actually use for a flush and the right ph) and how I would be able to tell that I had corrected my problem. I am starting to freak out a bit as my oldest plants are looking a bit worse for wear and it is too late in the season to start new ones from scratch that will turn out as big.

I have been trying to find information on flushing but it seems to me all the information out there is kind of vague or is mostly talking about flushing plants of nutrients prior to harvest. Maybe it is the same procedure? Seriously if someone could help me out and ease my mind on this I would greatly appreciate it!

I also have a question regarding perlite and ph, would plants in a mixture of soil and perlite take on the alkalinity of water with a ph of 7-7.5 more readily than plants just in soil? The reason that I ask is that my plant in straight soil has not shown any signs of these deficiencies (it is a different strain though), despite being watered with the exact same water. My friends who grow outdoors and don't use perlite have never encountered this problem either and I assume their water is roughly as alkaline as mine since we live in the same area. It doesn't make that much difference as most of my plants have some perlite mixed with the soil anyway, I am just curious for future reference.

Flushing a plant is to remove a buildup of salts in the soil which cause burns and bad taste. You think you have a deficiency, so flushing is only making matters worse since you are technically removing nutrients from the soil.

There is no need to flush if you are growing organic, and like you said, most people flush at the end of the plants life because they feed with synthetic nutrients, which build up in the soil.

Remember, flushing helps the soil, not really the plant.

 

[drug_mentor]

I don't have a camera, but I will try take some pics and post them somehow.

The ph of the soil is not 7 but above 7, I read P could be locked out of soil at ph 7.5, it is hard to know exactly what the soil ph is since I read those poker meters can't be trusted and I can only measure the run off but it is definitely above 7.

Part of the reason I am convinced it is a ph problem is the fact I had fed the plants recently, I admit the only organic soluble plant food I could find at the store I went has an NPK rating of 10-2-6 or something similar, which is pretty low in P, still, consider the soil said it had 3 months of nutrients and that time has not passed and they had a couple mild feedings I just don't get why they would be deficient, unless something in the soil was stopping them from feeding. It is also worth remembering that the seed stock are from plants a couple mates of mine grew last year, they never had any issues with nutrient deficiencies and were growing in similar, if not the same brands of soil, and neither of them ever even fed their plant aside from minimal soil amendments before transplanting seedlings into a bigger pot. I am actually very curious if perlite makes soil take on the ph of water more readily or something, because most of my plants are in a soil/perlite mix, and the ones that are are showing signs of these issues while the one that isn't is not showing these signs. Also, my friends who I mentioned before have never included perlite in their soil mix when growing.

What would be a good way to feed my plant some P if it is not a ph issue? I am thinking that going and purchasing a bloom fertiliser which is high in P and feeding it with that until signs of the deficiency go before reverting back to a veg/N dominant fert might be the way to go?

 

[Hoes call me santa]

Damn all this Ph talk is making me glad I chose to grow organically in soil...

That's my DNA La Chocolat (LA Confidential x Chocolope) 42 days in flowering, pretty proud of that pic considering I took it with my cellphone (galaxy s3)

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I am growing in soil, organically so far as I know, unless the soils have some chemicals in the fertilisers they add...

Weirdly neither of my flushes or the last two days of rain has got my Ph low enough, as I am still getting readings over 7 which I don't understand. Obviously I either did not use enough water or did not use acidic enough water or both, if someone could provide details on how much water to use and at what ph to get soil from between 7 and 7.5 ph down to about a 6 that would be great! Two of the plants are in 125mm diameter containers and two are in 140mm diameter containers.

I really cannot understand how my ph is practically as high as it was at the start of the week, obviously there is something about flushing which I am missing, I would be forever indebted anyone who can give me a definitive answer on this subject, as I really wanted this issue rectified by now. My plants are already getting a shorter veg time than I would of liked and I really can't afford another week of stunted growth due to this issue. Plus, I really need to top my plants because of height/visibility issues and it is already getting to a relatively late stage to do that but I don't want to add that stress to the plants before this problem is fixed.

 

[justsayknow]

^Have you had a look at what the roots are doing? Have they curled up in the bottom yet? Are they still nice and white. Could it possibly be time to transplant? If they are tall enough to need topping already but still in small pots that could be the issue? When you put the water in does it just run straight through?

I agree with what was said before about not flushing. You would be washing the nutrients out. I could be wrong but I thought 7 was pretty much neutral ph.

Not sure how long you have had them in those pots for but I would be looking for the next size pot about now 180mm or 250mm if your plants are big enough to think about topping them. For me that would be between 4 and 6 sets of true leaves.

Also I thought yellowing was N deficiency but I'm no expert.

 

[justsayknow]

pretty proud of that pic considering I took it with my cellphone (galaxy s3)

Damn right! Is that indoors?