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I used to notice the same thing about my pupils, and I still do at times. And for a while, it really worried me. That is, until I sought the proper medical attention and had testing done which came back negative.

It's actually very common for one pupil to be slightly larger than the other, especially as you age.

The vast majority of the time, this is due to your pupils responding to the amount of light being absorbed. And, depending on the angle of the light source, one pupil may be absorbing more light than the other.

On rare occasions, a difference in pupil size may be due to a serious neurological condition, which may be symptomless (other than the different pupil sizes).

If possible, I recommend you go see a neurologist for some peace of mind.

P.S. - Different pupil sizes can also be due to an eye injury which has resulted in the injured eye's pupil having to dilate itself more than the other in order to absorb the same amount of light.

Hey ro4eva,

Actually, the pupils should be constricting the same, even if one eye is absorbing more light than the other. This is because signals arising from both retina of the eyes converge to the pretectal area of the midbrain, which then activates both Edinger-Westphal nuclei equally. Each Edinger-Westphal nucleus then sends signals down the oculomotor nerve to the ciliary ganglion to constrict the pupil.

So the problem is likely to be altered transmission in one of the oculomotor nerve, rather than a differential absorption of light between the two eyes. Even if one eye is blind and cannot absorb any light, if light is shone into the other eye, BOTH pupils will constrict equally because of the above mechanism. This is why the pupillary light reflex is known as a consensual reflex.

Hope all is going well with you buddy.
 
ah shit, add "uneven dilated pupils" to ever ones "new symptom" list

lol
 
For those interested (following up on my earlier theory): it seems that high glutamate activity is to blame for feelings of derealization/depersonalization. For example dissasociatives like ketamine release large amounts of this neurotransmitter. This makes sense in the theory since the Serotonin/GABA system should normally put the brakes on chemicals such as glutamate and norepinephrine.

Hey coderbrah,

do you have any sources that show this relationship between glutamate and dp/dr. I would be interested to read them, as I tried piracetam, which is an AMPA receptor agonist (type of glutamate receptor), and it gave me a lot of clouded sensorium and brain fog. However, this may have been also due to the fact that I did not ingest the proper piracetam : choline ratio.
 
I also find it interesting how folks with no drug use get Depersonilization and the exact same symptoms. They might have had a similar shot to their system through general anxiety which caused a similar down-regulation. Who knows. But I cant help to ignore the fact that if non drug users get the EXACT same visual snow, depression, numb emotions, anxiety and ect, it simple cant be brain damage.

Go to this site http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/
Its flooded with people describing the exact same stuff as we are. and many of them have it from smoking pot, LSD, Mushrooms, a near death experience, childhood trauma and many other events. But the fact is that they all have the same symptoms regardless of the trigger.

This down regulation also might be why antidepressents dont work for us. The receptors simply arent available to make use of the serotonin that the drug adds.

This really depends on how you define "damage". Does the long-term change in serotonergic neurotransmission that you are calling "down-regulation" qualify as damage? If the MDMA has resulted in a change at the cellular/molecular level in the serotonin systems that is persisting, then how is that "damage" fundamentally different than the damage caused by a baseball bat to the head causing death to neurons? Both have caused change in neuronal function over a long-term timecourse.

The fact that others who have not used MDMA have similar symptoms should not lead to the fallacy that we cannot have brain damage. Imagine two patients side by side who are both complaining of left sided chest pain, identical in severity and quality. In one patient, the pain is being caused by gastroesophageal reflux disease (acid reflux), and in the other patient the chest pain is being caused by a heart attack. The analagous situation would be the patient with the heart attack refusing to believe he is having a heart attack, because the guy laying next to him is having the same symptoms, and that guy is just having acid reflux.

If this is brain damage, so be it. The acceptance of this will help you let go of the struggle of denial that you messed yourself up this bad and let go of the guilt. If this is brain damage, it is damage that in most people the brain can compensate for and repair over time, including you PMZ :) For others it will take finding the right interventions, including medications and therapy. In the not too distant future, there may even be a surgery that can help severe LTC suffers who have been suffering for years with no improvement, but I will go into that at a later time. But one way or the other, most people have made it out to the other, more beautiful, side of life, and so will we.
 
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Hey coderbrah,

do you have any sources that show this relationship between glutamate and dp/dr. I would be interested to read them, as I tried piracetam, which is an AMPA receptor agonist (type of glutamate receptor), and it gave me a lot of clouded sensorium and brain fog. However, this may have been also due to the fact that I did not ingest the proper piracetam : choline ratio.

This was a theory of mine, as dissasotiatives such as ketamine release large amounts of glutamate (also I recall there being a study that glutamate caused dpdr symptoms). Which also makes sense that its often linked to anxiety since anxiety usually also stems from lower/faulty GABA action.

Also be aware that brainfog might also come from choline. Excessive Acetylcholine gives almost the same symptoms as low AcH and some people respond badly to cholinergic nootropics.

(Not claiming to be a nootropic expert, just my findings)

This really depends on how you define "damage". Does the long-term change in serotonergic neurotransmission that you are calling "down-regulation" qualify as damage? If the MDMA has resulted in a change at the cellular/molecular level in the serotonin systems that is persisting, then how is that "damage" fundamentally different than the damage caused by a baseball bat to the head causing death to neurons? Both have caused change in neuronal function over a long-term timecourse.

The fact that others who have not used MDMA have similar symptoms should not lead to the fallacy that we cannot have brain damage. Imagine two patients side by side who are both complaining of left sided chest pain, identical in severity and quality. In one patient, the pain is being caused by gastroesophageal reflux disease (acid reflux), and in the other patient the chest pain is being caused by a heart attack. The analagous situation would be the patient with the heart attack refusing to believe he having a heart attack, because the guy laying next to him is having the same symptoms, and that guy is just having acid reflux.

If this is brain damage, so be it. The acceptance of this will help you let go of the struggle of denial that you messed yourself up this bad and let go of the guilt. This is brain damage that in most people the brain can compensate for and repair over time, including you PMZ :) For others it will take finding the right interventions, including medications and therapy. In the not too distant future, there may even be a surgery that can help severe LTC suffers who have been suffering for years with no improvement, but I will go into that at a later time. But one way or the other, most people have made it out to the other, more beautiful, side of life, and so will we.

The difference is that downregulation is the brain adapting. It might not be beneficial but it still is the brain responding to what happens. Whereas brain damage is where the brain just breaks.
 
This was a theory of mine, as dissasotiatives such as ketamine release large amounts of glutamate (also I recall there being a study that glutamate caused dpdr symptoms). Which also makes sense that its often linked to anxiety since anxiety usually also stems from lower/faulty GABA action.

Also be aware that brainfog might also come from choline. Excessive Acetylcholine gives almost the same symptoms as low AcH and some people respond badly to cholinergic nootropics.

(Not claiming to be a nootropic expert, just my findings)



The difference is that downregulation is the brain adapting. It might not be beneficial but it still is the brain responding to what happens. Whereas brain damage is where the brain just breaks.

This is why I don't think this is a downregulation problem (see my earlier posts about this). I used the term "downregulation" because PMZ was using this. In people who are experiencing these symptoms long beyond a couple weeks to a couple months, the time course does not fit with downregulation. Direct alterations to the structural integrrity of serotonin neurons, on the other hand, does fit this time course, including axonal degeneration and cell death. In my mind, these long term alterations is as much "damage" as anything else that we call brain damage. There is mountains of neuroimaging and histological based research in mammalian studies that MDMA DOES do this to mammalian brains. But like I said, this damage can be repaired and compensated for over time.
 
Also I just realized today how subjective your recovery really is.

Like I can remember 1 to 1,5 months ago where I was so fatigued I didn't even know it was possible to be so fatigued. It was like every muscle in my body was filled with lead and tensed up to the point that even lying down was a chore for me. But today I realized I haven't felt that fatigue in a few weeks. In fact today after going to the store I went for 45 minute walk through the sun without huffing/puffing or feeling like I was drunk out of my mind.

Maybe you're like me and when this thing started you figured it would be a linear progression where every week you would have a tiny improvement in symptoms compared to the last. But it doesn't work like that. You don't really know how far you've come until you get a setback.

I can remember the first few weeks being unable to sleep. Like literally unable. At most I got a few minutes where I dozed off. I had to use melatonin to get to sleep and even using that I woke up after 3-4 hours and I had to take more melatonin to get another few hours of interrupted sleep. It took me months, but I can actually say right now that apart from waking up each night to go to the toilet I sleep absolutely fine.

And yet still I come to this thread complaining about how I see no improvement and feel miserable even though I've improved heaps compared to the first two months (I would definitely not add myself to the recovered list btw). Because I've been taking the recovered symptoms for granted. Because every period of time is subjective.
 
Also I just realized today how subjective your recovery really is.

Like I can remember 1 to 1,5 months ago where I was so fatigued I didn't even know it was possible to be so fatigued. It was like every muscle in my body was filled with lead and tensed up to the point that even lying down was a chore for me. But today I realized I haven't felt that fatigue in a few weeks. In fact today after going to the store I went for 45 minute walk through the sun without huffing/puffing or feeling like I was drunk out of my mind.

Maybe you're like me and when this thing started you figured it would be a linear progression where every week you would have a tiny improvement in symptoms compared to the last. But it doesn't work like that. You don't really know how far you've come until you get a setback.

I can remember the first few weeks being unable to sleep. Like literally unable. At most I got a few minutes where I dozed off. I had to use melatonin to get to sleep and even using that I woke up after 3-4 hours and I had to take more melatonin to get another few hours of interrupted sleep. It took me months, but I can actually say right now that apart from waking up each night to go to the toilet I sleep absolutely fine.

And yet still I come to this thread complaining about how I see no improvement and feel miserable even though I've improved heaps compared to the first two months (I would definitely not add myself to the recovered list btw). Because I've been taking the recovered symptoms for granted. Because every period of time is subjective.

shit man. I loled so hard on this one. Its so easy to ignore the improvements we have made. I would start writing things down in a journal as they come up. Then you can read back and go "Holy crap, I forgot I was even that back. Thank god Im not like that anymore"


You really have to appreciate the small strides we make in improvement.

Shit, in the last 2 weeks, I feel like I made significant improvements. Even in the last few days. Something has definitely shifted. I'm having more fun, way more social, enjoying music more. Just way better. I also in the last week start getting better at just saying fuck it to the whole recovery thing and allowing myself to just be. I've let my self do what I feel like doing, rather than not doing because my LTC tells me not to. (if that makes sense) and not giving a shit about how I react.

Im learning how to relax now. Im getting good at just letting my BODY relax. This is key and why I go to yoga. We are so disconnected to our bodies and all stuck in our heads. Yoga forces me to pay attention to my body and learn how to relax it. There needs to be a reestablishment between the mind-body connection. and yoga is very good at addressing that.

Ive been going to yoga every day, and make sure I meditate every day.

Yoga calms the body, and meditation calms the mind. That is how I feel we need to recover. as well as stimulating our selves in other way, like reading and running and socializing.

But, relearning how to relax our BODY is so key.

Join a yoga studio and just go ever day. JUST DO IT!
 
Hey PMZ,


That's amazing to know you're making slow significant improvements. I hope and pray that you do succeed. Do you mind sharing your best practices on the meditation aspect of your techniques?


Thanks!



shit man. I loled so hard on this one. Its so easy to ignore the improvements we have made. I would start writing things down in a journal as they come up. Then you can read back and go "Holy crap, I forgot I was even that back. Thank god Im not like that anymore"


You really have to appreciate the small strides we make in improvement.

Shit, in the last 2 weeks, I feel like I made significant improvements. Even in the last few days. Something has definitely shifted. I'm having more fun, way more social, enjoying music more. Just way better. I also in the last week start getting better at just saying fuck it to the whole recovery thing and allowing myself to just be. I've let my self do what I feel like doing, rather than not doing because my LTC tells me not to. (if that makes sense) and not giving a shit about how I react.

Im learning how to relax now. Im getting good at just letting my BODY relax. This is key and why I go to yoga. We are so disconnected to our bodies and all stuck in our heads. Yoga forces me to pay attention to my body and learn how to relax it. There needs to be a reestablishment between the mind-body connection. and yoga is very good at addressing that.

Ive been going to yoga every day, and make sure I meditate every day.

Yoga calms the body, and meditation calms the mind. That is how I feel we need to recover. as well as stimulating our selves in other way, like reading and running and socializing.

But, relearning how to relax our BODY is so key.

Join a yoga studio and just go ever day. JUST DO IT!
 
MyStory's Long-term Comedown Progress

Hi Everyone,

I want to start by saying that absolutely appreciate everyone on this forum - I've been following Scaredfirsttimer, PMZ, Dawglaw, and many more of you for about 10 months now and finally decided to make an account.

A little bit about me:

I live in the Silicon Valley and work in the tech industry and I have huge goals in life. I'm young and hungry to achieve those goals, and I was in the midst of getting their until I was introduced to a new social "lifestyle" called "Rave."


For me, it all started in Las Vegas, Nevada at a well known even called EDC. I never really went to a rave before as this was my first, and I hitched a ride with a group of old friends that I haven't seen for years. From a background of attending a private school and private college, I never did drugs and my friends talked about "molly." Every time Molly came up I internally asked myself what the duck is was until Day 1 of EDC...

At Day 1 I took 3 Molly's in capsule form (small capsules) and had the best time of my life.

At Day 2 I took another 3 or maybe 4 Molly's in capsule form and, again, had the best time of my life.

As Day 3 approaches, I decided to get really drunk and take 1 Molly which then triggers a panic attack that lasts for about 30-45 minutes.


This panic attack puts me in the tents of where they accept people that take drugs and I'm shaking like crazy...To the point of which they have to get 4 people to strap me down and put ivy in me to sleep. I wake up and guess what? I'm fine....


As two months pass by with no comedown symptoms, I have a panic attack at work that triggers all the comedown symptoms that most of you are experiencing.


Delayed onset symptoms:

Brain Fog -- Gone!
DP/DR -- Terrible
Depression -- Mild
Anxiety Attacks -- Still get them
Head/neck Pressure -- Gone!
Vision interference -- Gone!


I'm lucky to the point that I never had memory issues, I slept fairly well in the 10 months so far, but I did lose my job and respect from some very important people here in the valley. I put in 18 hour days, and I'm not able to even do 5hr days now.

My biggest challenge is that I can't handle any stress at all, and with the work I do, I need to be able to tolerate stress at its most threatening state.

Going on 10 months this month and I would love to hear about any tips you guys have. I'm optimistic that I'd be able to feel calm and collective again, but I need support.


Thanks guys, love you all.
 
Guys I have a few questions for you. Is anyone familiar with restless legs? Did this go away in time? Its killing me. Also all my muscles are continuously cramped up. Exercising in the short term makes this so much worse cause im simply inable to relax my muscles again. Where other people have tmj i have this through my entire body. Anyone have any tips (except meditating)? Also I'm now three months in, and had entered the dissociated depressed tired state, and left the panic state. However since a few days im in a panic the likes of which i havent experienced yet. Is this such a huge setback normal?
 
You guys think if I got mild influenza this could make my symptoms worse?

Definitely. Everyone with a LTC should be aware of this. I have been slightly sick two times during my comedown. Once I had a very mild cold, and just recently I had something similar that gave me a moderate throbbing headache every time I stood up or moved my head too quick. On both occasions I experienced an increase in DP and anxiety particularly. During and for 2 weeks after the minor cold I got the debilitating dizziness that many LTC sufferers complains about.

I know of a few others with the same experience.
 
Definitely. Everyone with a LTC should be aware of this. I have been slightly sick two times during my comedown. Once I had a very mild cold, and just recently I had something similar that gave me a moderate throbbing headache every time I stood up or moved my head too quick. On both occasions I experienced an increase in DP and anxiety particularly. During and for 2 weeks after the minor cold I got the debilitating dizziness that many LTC sufferers complains about.

I know of a few others with the same experience.

thank you so much this really sets my mind at ease
 
That's great man. What visual interferences did you have? That's about the only thing that is keeping my anxiety lingering.
 
Guys I have a few questions for you. Is anyone familiar with restless legs? Did this go away in time? Its killing me. Also all my muscles are continuously cramped up. Exercising in the short term makes this so much worse cause im simply inable to relax my muscles again. Where other people have tmj i have this through my entire body. Anyone have any tips (except meditating)? Also I'm now three months in, and had entered the dissociated depressed tired state, and left the panic state. However since a few days im in a panic the likes of which i havent experienced yet. Is this such a huge setback normal?

go to yoga. It will help that.

at first you will be struggling to right the tight muscles, but if you keep up a practice and do it 3-5 times a weeks, this will help alot.
 
Guys I have a few questions for you. Is anyone familiar with restless legs? Did this go away in time? Its killing me. Also all my muscles are continuously cramped up. Exercising in the short term makes this so much worse cause im simply inable to relax my muscles again. Where other people have tmj i have this through my entire body. Anyone have any tips (except meditating)? Also I'm now three months in, and had entered the dissociated depressed tired state, and left the panic state. However since a few days im in a panic the likes of which i havent experienced yet. Is this such a huge setback normal?
The restless legs. I know exactly what you mean, I'm also 3 months in and I'm still shaking my foot a lot. Not as much as I did before, and it is SUPER slowly getting better, but it's pretty hard to keep it still for an hour, however at one point it was very hard to keep it still for a minute.

And Yeah I'd say it's totally normal, earlier this week I was panicking for a good 2 days, but now I'm back with relaxation. I think you're really beginning to de-stress and you encounter a little bit of stress, which causes your brain to be like "DEFENCE MODE ACTIVATED". But I guess it can only get better. I have a feeling we're all going to be pretty prone to stress in the future.
 
Hey PMZ,


That's amazing to know you're making slow significant improvements. I hope and pray that you do succeed. Do you mind sharing your best practices on the meditation aspect of your techniques?


Thanks!


Thank you sir.

My practice.

1) do it every day. this is key.

2) Just sit and breath, and what ever comes up, that is totally ok. The idea is NOT to stop thinking. Its to be aware of how much you mind if running wild. When we stop and let our mind run wild, ir gets the energy out it needs to, like a caged in puppy. You sit, and watch the wildness of mind work, and you observe. Then you tell your self to focus on your breath. Feel and inhale and exhale. Feel what its like for air to come into your body. Feel your chest rising and falling with each breath. You mind WILL begin to race again. This is ok. you watch it. Then you come back to your breath. You give your self compassion that it is ok that your mind is so crazy. Everyones mind is crazy when they mediate. The idea to realize this and then come back to your breath. The breath is the what you focus on. The mind is what you are aware of, but not the point of focus. Thoughts will arise, but you say hello to them and do not follow them. It will be hard at first, or damn near imposible to not follow a thought, and 5 minuets later you totally forgot to come back to your breath.... once again this is expeected and is ok. once you realize you are distracted, no matter how often, you then come back to your breath. You NEVER beat your self up for not being able to focus. This is a space you created to have a non judgement aout your self. You observe the nature of your mind here. You DO NOT try to change it. Through observing it, it will change it self as needed.

3) start of at 5 minuets a day. As you get comforable, gradually increase it to 20 min a day. sit every day for 20 min.

4) at the end of the meditation. Before you get up... Sit there and thank your self. Appreciate the space you just created to get out of the crazy habits of thinking. Then start your day.

5) i like to start my days with a mediation. I set my alarm clock early, just so I can get up and sit. I also sit before I so to sleep at night.


also there is a meditation of relaxing the body as many may need that. I would sit and do the same as above, yet on every exhale focus on trying to relax every muscle in your body and melt more and more into your cushion.


Hope this helps
 
Great to see so much progress, youre left with pretty much the same symptoms as me except for the dp/dr I don't really experience that anymore luckily.
 
Rphilli72 I tried messaging you but your inbox is full.

Also are there any people here that have experiences with benzos? Please PM me. (Just asking for experiences because they got prescribed to me for occasional use, not looking for a natural vs 'unnatural' debate)

Hey, what's up? I'm assuming you are wondering what my experience is on benzos in this condition?

Initially (acute phase), I would have been to the ER/psych ward without them. They literally relieved my symptoms like nothing else and allowed me to sleep. I have a prescription for Xanax now and I take some maybe once or twice a week at most. Actually, probably not even that often. I don't get the panic attacks and the free floating anxiety anymore. My symptoms are more fatigue, trouble sleeping, mild dp, and the dreaded head pressure. So, I usually take them to have a real restful sleep when I really need it more than anything. It's also psychologically comforting to know I have them JIC. That's bigger than you may think.

I really don't get the whole anti-prescription drug deal in here. Seems to me, most of us don't mind doing recreational drugs, but prescription drugs are somehow the devil. I don't follow that logic. Anyway, yeah, just be careful. Any drug is potentially dangerous. I've had no rebound effect or any form of dependence develop yet or any adverse reaction, but I take them sparingly.
 
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