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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 5)

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Can't really say on the Lamictal worsening tinnitus bit. A couple studies have shown very modest benefit in traditional tinnitus, one study only let in participants whose tinnitus did not vary however. Lamotrigine is used to treat some cranial nerve neuropathies though, like trigeminal neuralgia.

RE genesight, idk man, 23andme is the only one that I'll vouch for. You can learn your serotonin transporter form therein, and they are now doing some interpretation of genetic results as well (the FDA is allowing them to now), so they can give you a readout on a few Alzheimer's/Parkinson's genes and your relative risk, if that's something you want to know. You can't exactly unlearn that knowledge.

In a perfect world, we would get together a whole bunch of adverse effects sufferers, and do a genome wide association study. Meaning that we would see what genes we all have in common, and see if there is anything that predisposed us to develop the symptoms. If there is a gene that only 20% of the general population has but 95% of LTC sufferers have, that would be the ideal finding in some sense.

But genesight might just be giving some data about people who need higher drug concentrations because they have a stronger blood brain barrier and that kind of stuff, like yeah there is some genes that can help determine drug response but I think a lot more is known about drug concentrations than gene-drug response interactions.

There are these special EEG machines that automatically read your brainwaves and recommend a medication, I think those are interesting. I've heard a lot of people end up getting recommended Depakote after those EEGs, which is a mood stabilizer (the same class as Lamotrigine)
 
Lol its not like Id get increased anxiety or depression from knowing that stuff haha. It has no bearing on this LTC and even if there was some higher risk leading a healthy lifestyle can stave all that off.


Btw incidentally
This is the sort of thing im talking about with regards to psychological anxiety/depression or biochemical anxiety/depression.

A lot of people out there would get massive health anxiety finding out stuff like that and maybe some even panic attacks. I wouldnt. My 'cognitive' thought patterns are intact enough for that knowledge to not necessarily throw me off. So this is exactly what I don't understand when the issue of thought patterns comes up.

I almost find it insulting if a therapist automatically assumes I have destructive unhealthy thought patterns. I am not thinking myself into this shit its just there. I have not had a trauma which changed my world view for the worse either.

At the same time, I will admit I obsess about my LTC condition itself. That being said--I wonder if pretty much anybody out there who (has 'healthy' enough thought patterns pre LTC that make them resilient to external stressors) if their mental state was changed in an instant they would *not* ruminate over that.

Friends I have that do MDMA either bounce back quickly without anything or often dont even get large perturbations in the first place.

Btw on the genetic note my *guess* is that i am LL or SL due to the psychological resilience factor.

Also turns out just because SS is susceptible to stress--they seem to also respond a lot better to CBT.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3575379/

So I don't think LL is all "good" and SS is all "bad". They both seem to have advantages and disadvantages.
 
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Socrilus,
I was functional just low mood and thus living life suboptimal for the last 4 months. I started the generic version of lamictal which is lamotrigine and I haven't felt this good since all of this started. It literally felt better after the 4th day of just 25mg which is roughly 100mg below what is considered the therapeutic dose.

My friend started it the same time I did and he has been dealing with severe depression his whole life and he said he is feeling amazing now. He has been having crazy hallucinations for a long time with intrusive thoughts but all of that is gone now.

I can't speak to the tinnitus but even it doesn't make it worse I'd imaginetl that an improved mood and Outlook on life would make the tinnitus more tolerable to live with.

So far lamictal is 2 for 2 in my book.
 
Brain_fog88 said:
Socrilus,
I was functional just low mood and thus living life suboptimal for the last 4 months. I started the generic version of lamictal which is lamotrigine and I haven't felt this good since all of this started. It literally felt better after the 4th day of just 25mg which is roughly 100mg below what is considered the therapeutic dose.

My friend started it the same time I did and he has been dealing with severe depression his whole life and he said he is feeling amazing now. He has been having crazy hallucinations for a long time with intrusive thoughts but all of that is gone now.

I can't speak to the tinnitus but even it doesn't make it worse I'd imaginetl that an improved mood and Outlook on life would make the tinnitus more tolerable to live with.

So far lamictal is 2 for 2 in my book.
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Nice--any sexual side effects or is everything great in that department?

Im always concerned about that and tinnitus haha.

Klonopin 1 mg takes me to 90+% for the entire day. All depression symptoms remit.

Im looking for non addictive alternatives since I cannot use this shit everyday.

I tried ketamine infusions but had a bad reaction which I am still recuperating from. I got interested in lamictal since if I understand correctly it has the opposite MOA of low dose ketamine?

And I react well to GABA ergic substances

So I wonder if I am dealing with some kind of glutamate/GABA system issue. I gave up on serotonin theories long time back.
 
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@socrilus, remind me of your symptoms again? I think you are very similar to me.

Thanks,
Fred
 
fnono33 said:
@socrilus, remind me of your symptoms again? I think you are very similar to me.

Thanks,
Fred
Click to expand...

Low mood worst in the mornings better at night, anxiety, inconsistent libido, socially not as confident as before, tinnitus/VS/enhanced blue field entoptic phenomenon

No HPPD except VS/enchanced BFEP. BFEP doenst bother me that mucu though I think its fascinating to see the white blood cells zooming around in the sky.

Tried ketamine infusions and have had mild DR for the past week. Right now that is my main worry I hope it gets better. Did not have it before the ketamine treatment nor did I expect it to linger since the doc and literature said it dissapates as soon as the infusion is disconnected
 
socrilus said:
Low mood worst in the mornings better at night, anxiety, inconsistent libido, socially not as confident as before, tinnitus/VS/enhanced blue field entoptic phenomenon

No HPPD except VS/enchanced BFEP. BFEP doenst bother me that mucu though I think its fascinating to see the white blood cells zooming around in the sky.

Tried ketamine infusions and have had mild DR for the past week. Right now that is my main worry I hope it gets better. Did not have it before the ketamine treatment nor did I expect it to linger since the doc and literature said it dissapates as soon as the infusion is disconnected
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I dunno man I have Tinnitus, BFEP, and tons of floaters as well....and they are all HPPD symptoms, albeit mild ones. I for one can say my floaters became waaaay more after smoking weed and then having the LTC hit. I bet if we took LSD or MDMA we'd have full blown HPPD.....in fact I almost guarantee it.
 
I want to try Lamactil....I plan to if come 6 months more and my symptoms aren't subsiding at all.
 
ADubbs said:
I dunno man I have Tinnitus, BFEP, and tons of floaters as well....and they are all HPPD symptoms, albeit mild ones. I for one can say my floaters became waaaay more after smoking weed and then having the LTC hit. I bet if we took LSD or MDMA we'd have full blown HPPD.....in fact I almost guarantee it.
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Thats exactly why ill never do MDMA again and why I would never touch LSD. LSD seems even worse in this regard.

I did do ketamine medically supervised for this and was afraid of it affecting things but thankfully it didnt other than my tinnitus for the days I had the infusion.

Still that stuff I think has set me back. I wonder if its just better for non drug induced depression/anxiety rather than drug induced.

Caffeine/alcohol i can tolerate but holy crap not the ketamine although during the infusion process itself and day of I was ok its the aftereffects.
 
I've been trying to figure out if lsd and mdma create different types of hppd. The best I can come up with is that lsd creates more intense visuals where mdma creates heavier psychological effects.
 
^Yep, "post-LSD visual syndrome" tends to have more intense geometric patterns but it can also have a strong depersonalization component too.

Whereas severe diphenhydramine (Benadryl) abuse can give rise to heavy visual snow but I don't think the complex geometric patterns as much.
 
Cotcha Yankinov said:
^Yep, "post-LSD visual syndrome" tends to have more intense geometric patterns but it can also have a strong depersonalization component too.

Whereas severe diphenhydramine (Benadryl) abuse can give rise to heavy visual snow but I don't think the complex geometric patterns as much.
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LSD induced definitely HPPD seems more severe than MDMA.

I had absolutely no visuals during my MDMA high and noticed absolutely nothing strange after it. AND my LTC was delayed for a few weeks and came on randomly when everything in my life was fine. I wonder if delayed LTC potentially has no or very low HPPD (VS/BFEP) and could have a different pathology in general to instant LTC?
 
There are probably a lot of different mechanisms by which visual disturbances can arise acutely, or have delayed onset, and in either case persist. For example chronic visual disturbances in concussions/TBI - they can last a long time and interestingly a person or two has had head injuries around the time of their LTC (somedud and myself are the only ones I can name right now).

Concussion visuals and that whole subjective experience can be reminiscent of HPPD/LTCs in my opinion.

When the brain believes it is injured or otherwise under attack, it releases substances (exosomes) which then travel to liver where they activate immune system cells that propagate to the brain and can wreak much more havoc than the original injury. This is one example of how delayed effects could occur.
 
Socrilus,

The only thing sexual I experienced was retrograde ejaculation a couple times right after i started it. Since then I haven't had any issues and my sex drive is just fine. It's been a wonder drug so far but trust you guys will be the first to know if it goes south. I've smoked weed twice since starting it and have had zero issues as well. My buddy says alcohol messes him up a bit but I haven't had any issues with drinking.

I think it's worth a shot man!
 
Brain_fog88 said:
Socrilus,

The only thing sexual I experienced was retrograde ejaculation a couple times right after i started it. Since then I haven't had any issues and my sex drive is just fine. It's been a wonder drug so far but trust you guys will be the first to know if it goes south. I've smoked weed twice since starting it and have had zero issues as well. My buddy says alcohol messes him up a bit but I haven't had any issues with drinking.

I think it's worth a shot man!
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Thanks--at least you can still have sex and all though it might be painful. Still seems better than ED.

Alcohol and caffeine ive never really had issues with the LTC. Weed I used to smoke before the LTC but havent tried since nor do i want to cause I've had it with drugs. The only drugs id do at this point are alcohol and benzos lol. Im paranoid with weed now cause of the stories of it inducing DP/DR.

Recently it was the ketamine therapy I tried which messed me up a bit (gave mild DRA) but even still the degree of "mess up" is probably still less in magnitude than some of the stories I read on here about others getting set back with weed or alc or caffeine.

Lamictal is interesting for me just cause it seems to act opposite to ketamine so I wonder if that is why its so helpful for you and if it could help me.
 
Very interesting btw--- Lamictal could be an aromatase inhibitor? http://www.medschat.com/Discuss/Lamictal-is-an-Aromatase-Inhibitor-263911.htm

https://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7827-9-92

Does that potentially mean that in males an additional antidepressant/anti anxiety effect could happen by virtue of reducing E2 and then negative feedback *increasing* androgen/T levels?

The person on medhelp is a woman so is complaining but im referring to males. I know Estradiol is needed for brain function but if lamictal does that then would the regulatory mechanisms boost T in order to restore Estradiol E2 homeostasis?
 
I don't believe the whole mold biotoxin stuff but I took a VCS visual contrast sensitivity test and my score was terrible.

This is basically the test where they give the gray/white lines and you have to identify which direction they are going in with having one eye closed.

It was ridiculous often times most of the lines I couldn't even percieve and as I stared at it the image just got worse and blended together. I even saw some lines actively moving (HPPD-like symptom but may be "normal")

Found out this itself is related to depression apparantly?

http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2010/07/22/feeling-blue-seeing-gray/

If I recall isnt the VCS test also badly done by past hallucinogen users?
 
I think there is some mold/Lyme disease hocus pocus going around but I wouldn't be surprised if people with HPPD or other conditions did worse on such a test. People with HPPD often have a hard time adjusting to the dark as well but this could be due to effects in the visual relay located in the hypothalamus (lateral geniculate nucleus) or visual cortex or somewhere else entirely

Normally there is a retinal ganglion day/night mode that is modulated by dopamine, so RE: resperine increasing sensitivity to light as mentioned in the article, the explanation could be therein. The day/night mode is mediated by circadian rhythms and circadian dysfunction is a part of MDD.

Whereas COMT inhibitors (that increase dopamine and help with sensory gating) can help HPPD and dopamine antagonists can worsen it, so there might be some disconnect here between visual contrast issues and HPPD at a biological level but HPPD could still worsen function on a contrast test (but HPPD wouldn't be considered a disease of dysfunctional contrast)
 
Hi all. I just posted in another thread ("13 days later...") but decided to copy it here as it seems relevant to this discussion. Sorry for my english, non native speaker here.

Don't worry about setbacks and lol no you're not going psychotic.. By the sound of things you're doing pretty good all things considered. This whole thing seems very familiar to prolonged wd syndrome from ssris. If you're unaware there are people who get serious and debilitating after effects from antidepressants. I would know as I was one of these people...at that time there were 3 active support sites but only one of them seem to remain. I had to taper turtle pace in order to not end up a wreck. I've been recovered for years from that ordeal until my dumb ass decided to dabble with mdma (and god knows what else)... there is some sensitivity to serotonergic drugs going on for sure.

The recovery from ssri wd seemed to follow a pattern of 'windows and waves' meaning the symptoms fluctuate but gradually over weeks months and years get less and less. That is for those who went c/t and didn't reinstate. The best approach seems to be to accept and surrender to whatever comes, flow with it. Struggling just makes it worse. Feel free to see the neurologist but it's very unlikely to bear any fruit.. all the discussions I see on this forum about hpa-axis and is it psychological bla bla it's almost depressingly similar to those forums.
I'm positive about this healing but the time frame worries me. Even here I see people talking about months.. 3-12.. my life would be wrecked... and it's been 3 weeks and already it's getting exhausting. I try to eat well, go outside... but I look like death. And feel it.

Your situation sounds pretty good though, I would bet a month or two you'll be ok seeing as you have moments of being completely okay already and you're able to work.
I'm so violently sick right now I just try to pass the time... jogging, watching videos or just laying in bed eyes closed... closing my eyes seems to help the dizziness, nausea...
Not sure what to do... closing in on 3 weeks and I struggle with doing things like grocery shopping.... I already know I'm hyper sensitive to ssris but am considering trying one. But then I don't know if this can be alleviated by that. It might even make things worse
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For what it's worth the after effects I got from the ssri wd and this are similar, but different.. this time there is a lot more physical symptoms and less depression/anhedonia for example. My 3rd attempt tapering (for years, btw) ssri was a walk in the park but the 2 first too quick attempts made me disabled.

Like someone else mentioned in this discussion benzos seem to bring me also to at least 80-90% normalcy. Is there anything any words of wisdom someone could offer? I'm still in a very acutely sick phase at 3weeks and I'm wondering if this is typical to what the ltc sufferers here go through? This is really unbearable. I'm still waiting a week more at least to see if things are stabilizing.
Do the ssris help with this stuff? I don't have that much depression for example. Anxiety yes, if you can call it that. More like agitation/extreme distress/akathisia. And the physical symptoms on top of that. These seem to alternate. Either it's the hypervigilant mode or the sick headnauseous woozy state...

My original post:
I'm in the same boat here at day 17 after a foolish binge, even though friends are ok. Gut wrenching depression has gone away after week 1. Brain/eye wooshes/zaps also and nausea seems to be going away too. Current symptoms are:
-confusion, feeling like I've been hit in the head with a shovel
-constant trippy altered state
-jerky motions at times (eyes,limbs,breathing)
-vision messed up, feels like it's hard to focus eyes on a spot as they bounce all over / lag
-dizziness
-messed up spatial awareness
-agitation/anxiety/electric feeling in body
-sensitive to light, sounds - easily startled
-emotional issues - cranky mood, anger easily, stress out about everything
-can't really look people in the eye, stuttering ??
-mild nausea (used to dry heave)
-low mood, boredom, apathy
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