MDMA abuse/ Long term comedown - the Cognitive aspect

[Dawglaw]

So most curious. What is everyone's anxiety fueled by.

In lay terms: The brain being pissed off. Scientifically, I have no fucking clue.

MDMA induced anxiety, for me, was not really about being anxious. Besides being worried about having mad derealization, I wasn't worried about anything else. I just felt wierd for a long time.

It wasn't as if I could go and say "Ohh, I am worried about getting hit by a car when I cross the street today" and then when I didn't get hit, the anxiety was gone.

My anxiety was more of a systematic stress that manifested itself via DR, blurry vision and brain fog.

 

[Lady Codone]

Young brains are very pliable and can recover given time and proper nutrition/rest. And abstinence of course

If you have a hard time abstaining from empathogens altogether, you might look into methylone or 4-FA. Not suggesting abusing them, but they definitely have fewer immediate cognitive/emotional side effects than MDMA (for me at least). You still get that loved-up feeling but the after-effects aren't as intense. Not much is known about the long-term risks, so take it easy.

 

[futura2012]

^^ I think taking more drugs is the last thing on anyones mind in this thread right now.

You've kind of contradicted yourself as you suggest 4FA as a safer alternative then point out it is an RC with unknown long term risks. WEIRD?

 

[dpd_mnk92]

So most curious. What is everyone's anxiety fueled by. I find it hard to believe that anxiety is there for no reason at all. There has to a thought or train of thoughts that trigger the anxiety. For me its the fact that I Dont feel like I can verbalize my thoughts as well and feel like my overall sharpness is dimmed/reading isn't as good. Is everyone else simply anxious for no reason?

Very difficult to say and definitely will vary from case to case. I think in all cases, anxiety is triggered physiologically by the MDMA.

For some the temporary chemical imbalance (standard short term comedown) sets off a serious of negative, self-perpetuating thought loops which can keep going well past the time it takes to restore a state of equilibrium in the brain. In these cases, it's almost as if the body has recovered from the comedown but the mind is still frozen in that terrible state. People in this situation should be trying to unlearn some of the negative thought patterns, as this is the fuel on which anxiety problems run.

In other cases, I believe some damage has been done, which is mostly reversible with time. These guys have probably burnt out some serotonin neurons and experienced significant serotonin receptor down regulation. Negative thought patterns still play a big part in this type of anxiety, but in these cases I don't think ones mindset and thinking patterns are the only things keeping the anxiety going strong. It takes a lot longer for neurons to regrow/ receptors to upregulate than for the chemicals in the brain to rebalance themselves.

It's extremely difficult to know which group you fall into though, which makes the whole situation a bit of a mindfuck - a hypochondriac doesn't know he is being a hypochondriac. It also makes it easy for other forum members to clump everyone in with the first group and call all long term comedown sufferers hypochondriacs when really there is no way of making that judgement based on some internet posts.

 

[pmz]

Very difficult to say and definitely will vary from case to case. I think in all cases, anxiety is triggered physiologically by the MDMA.

For some the temporary chemical imbalance (standard short term comedown) sets off a serious of negative, self-perpetuating thought loops which can keep going well past the time it takes to restore a state of equilibrium in the brain. In these cases, it's almost as if the body has recovered from the comedown but the mind is still frozen in that terrible state. People in this situation should be trying to unlearn some of the negative thought patterns, as this is the fuel on which anxiety problems run.

In other cases, I believe some damage has been done, which is mostly reversible with time. These guys have probably burnt out some serotonin neurons and experienced significant serotonin receptor down regulation. Negative thought patterns still play a big part in this type of anxiety, but in these cases I don't think ones mindset and thinking patterns are the only things keeping the anxiety going strong. It takes a lot longer for neurons to regrow/ receptors to upregulate than for the chemicals in the brain to rebalance themselves.

It's extremely difficult to know which group you fall into though, which makes the whole situation a bit of a mindfuck - a hypochondriac doesn't know he is being a hypochondriac. It also makes it easy for other forum members to clump everyone in with the first group and call all long term comedown sufferers hypochondriacs when really there is no way of making that judgement based on some internet posts.

There is def some damage I feel on my case. I cant even sleep correctly for the life of me. I dont even wake up in anxiety, i just cant sleep. And I feel the sleep deprivation is making my life/depression even worse. I need just get a full nights rest already.

My sleep is even worse because I have bad shoulders. I cant even find a good position to lay down. I toss and turn all night trying to get confortable. Ill wake up with my shoulders numb

 

[dpd_mnk92]

There is def some damage I feel on my case. I cant even sleep correctly for the life of me. I dont even wake up in anxiety, i just cant sleep. And I feel the sleep deprivation is making my life/depression even worse. I need just get a full nights rest already.

My sleep is even worse because I have bad shoulders. I cant even find a good position to lay down. I toss and turn all night trying to get confortable. Ill wake up with my shoulders numb

That may be the case, but best not entertain the idea of brain damage as this appears to make things worse. Chances are, a lot of the damage can be reversed as well.

It's also worth considering that all these symptoms are completely interconnected.

Poor sleep can lead to depression, anxiety etc

Depression can lead to anxiety, poor sleep etc

Anxiety can lead to depression, poor sleep etc

Injuries may also contribute to any of the 3 examples i used above.

So although some damage may have triggered this, the damage done is probably no more than a fraction of what you might expect based on how you feel. As soon as you make a few improvements in some of these areas (e.g. injury heals, you start getting some sleep), I believe lots of things will start getting better, in a domino-effect kind of way.

 

[TheShowMustGoOn]

hi pmz, me again, I posted on your thread, you said you were looking for recovery stories and someone said a few posts back that after people are recovered they stop posting. This is in fact very true, people move on with their lives...I've found plenty of recovered archived stories on here, but very few of the users are still active and those that are rarely post about their experiences. I read one post that described recovery as getting better 50% in year one, 75% in year two and 85-90% in year 3, including cognitive changes...which is quite optimistic I feel
anyway, I should get off here, good luck all

 

[pmz]

hi pmz, me again, I posted on your thread, you said you were looking for recovery stories and someone said a few posts back that after people are recovered they stop posting. This is in fact very true, people move on with their lives...I've found plenty of recovered archived stories on here, but very few of the users are still active and those that are rarely post about their experiences. I read one post that described recovery as getting better 50% in year one, 75% in year two and 85-90% in year 3, including cognitive changes...which is quite optimistic I feel
anyway, I should get off here, good luck all

I gotta get off this website already. I cant imagine 3 years to be back to my self again. Peace out guys.

 

[futura2012]

Hey PMZ just for the record I would say I am starting to recover!!

About two days ago I just woke up and started feeling more normal. My anxiety is down by at least 50%. I am able to go outside now and leave my room. I have started being interested in all the things I used to love again like my studio, music, computers. I have also started light exercise.

This whole ordeal has lasted about 19 months. I am not fully recovered yet but that feeling of total panic and horror has just subsided. I want to assure you that my symptoms were at times worse than yours so I just want to reassure you that eventually you will get back to your old self. I promise you 100% you will recover. I thought I had totally frazzled my brain big time and my function is starting to come back.

Also for the record I have started taking an antidepressant Valdoxan and it is helping me sleep. I will give you an update of how this goes in the next month or so. The good thing about this particular AD is you can just stop taking it without any withdrawel issues.

When I am fully recovered I will start a thread about it but for now I dont want to count my chickens before they have hatched if you catch my drift

 

[ggarza921]

Hey PMZ just for the record I would say I am starting to recover!!

About two days ago I just woke up and started feeling more normal. My anxiety is down by at least 50%. I am able to go outside now and leave my room. I have started being interested in all the things I used to love again like my studio, music, computers. I have also started light exercise.

This whole ordeal has lasted about 19 months. I am not fully recovered yet but that feeling of total panic and horror has just subsided. I want to assure you that my symptoms were at times worse than yours so I just want to reassure you that eventually you will get back to your old self. I promise you 100% you will recover. I thought I had totally frazzled my brain big time and my function is starting to come back.

Also for the record I have started taking an antidepressant Valdoxan and it is helping me sleep. I will give you an update of how this goes in the next month or so. The good thing about this particular AD is you can just stop taking it without any withdrawel issues.

When I am fully recovered I will start a thread about it but for now I dont want to count my chickens before they have hatched if you catch my drift

Futura I'm so happy and proud of you!! This is such great news to hear. I'm glad you can go outside again. Keep fighting and hang tough! Also, my head pressure is subsiding big time. The Celexa, diet, and exercise are helping a great deal. Thank you so much for your support. I'm glad you're starting to see results

 

[pmz]

Hey PMZ just for the record I would say I am starting to recover!!

About two days ago I just woke up and started feeling more normal. My anxiety is down by at least 50%. I am able to go outside now and leave my room. I have started being interested in all the things I used to love again like my studio, music, computers. I have also started light exercise.

This whole ordeal has lasted about 19 months. I am not fully recovered yet but that feeling of total panic and horror has just subsided. I want to assure you that my symptoms were at times worse than yours so I just want to reassure you that eventually you will get back to your old self. I promise you 100% you will recover. I thought I had totally frazzled my brain big time and my function is starting to come back.

Also for the record I have started taking an antidepressant Valdoxan and it is helping me sleep. I will give you an update of how this goes in the next month or so. The good thing about this particular AD is you can just stop taking it without any withdrawel issues.

When I am fully recovered I will start a thread about it but for now I dont want to count my chickens before they have hatched if you catch my drift

Awesome dude. Im glade to hear. Its a scary road to have to go down, but Im confident it will lead to good things in my future. I just had a great walk that got my head spinning in very good direction. So get outside and walk as much as possible dude.

I am also most likely going to a wilderness therapy retreat program soon for about 2 months. To basically get my head out of my house for a while and be surrounded by support 24/7. This one I found is a holistic therapy program and looks really cool to me. But I am confident it will a huge step in the right direction for me.

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

Futura, awesome news man. That's great to hear. Any clue as to what brought this on? How did you first notice a difference? Either way man you deserve it. After all the help and support you've given to others it's good to see some positive karma coming back to you. Maybe I'll start helping old ladies cross the street to get some positive vibes flowing my way.

Can't wait to start feeling some more recovery myself. It's like this experience really teaches you about how beautiful life is and I think all of us get an appreciation for the small things that most people don't get through everyday experience. I just need the old noggin to start working right so I can enjoy this.

 

[futura2012]

Thanks for all the positive words.

It really has been a joy today. I went to see my social worker and she thought it was a miracle. In her 20 year career she said she had never seen such a quick change from seriousley bad to much much better. It was funny because she told me about various things I had said over the past year and I couldnt remember anything.

I drove my car for the first time today after 19 months and my social worker has arranged a 3 month free membership for me at the gym so i really plan to hammer out the exercise now. Its weird because I have been in bed entirely for so long with all this new activity my muscles ache like a bitch. I think they had just wasted away.

Today I have been fixing up my music studio and my interest in electronic music has come back. Been listening to all the new psy trance on shoutcast wow its weird listening after such a long while all the sounds are very different to how i remember them.

I cant really put into words how this feels its FUCKING AMAZING! I have to reassure everyone that this is also going to happen to you.

You have a drug induced psychosis / anxiety its not permanent brain damage. You dont have underlying mental problems its purely the drugs that have caused this and its going to stop. When it will stop I dont know for sure but now after recovering from a second long term down then I firmly beleive that everyone will also come back to their old self.

Im glad that celexas working for you ggarza im also happy with the results of this valdoxan. Zero side effects so far.

 

[pmz]

man i cant wait to FEEL that love again. Just got back from seeing the movie The End. As funny as it was, I still left feeling empty. Its like laughter is a reflex now. It doesnt do anything after wards. Its kinda sad really. I have to ask again, is this really just anxiety pushing away emotions? or is that really a broken emotion that needs to heal. Im so confused about this. the entire movie I felt so much anxiety even though i was laughing.

Im confident Ill get better eventually, but shit this is so scary

Sorry to keep posting this, but a guys gotta vent and all.


Once again, very happy for ya Futura

 

[Dawglaw]

Futura - that is great, man! I am really happy to hear that you are on the up and up.

Just reading your post, I can tell in the tone of your writing that you feel more alive. Keep it up.

 

[1337]

Longtime lurker but made an account just to reply here.

(I'm a medical student and we are taught few details about MDMA, just rather the signs of overdose). About 6 months ago I took a hefty amount of quite pure MDMA for the first time. I was inexperienced, drunk, and have a careless personality(just ask mommy!). I snorted it, and I would say the dose was 100mg-150mg. It was a great night but the next day I immediately felt the effects - I normally don't talk a lot but I was in need of people around me. I needed support badly, I felt as if my world was ending, as if nothing made sense. I was extremely scared. I am a grown man and this was the most terrifying time in my life. My heart was constantly racing, I could only think about having taken MDMA and what damage I could have caused in my brain. This went on for weeks. I would look into the mirror and get episodes of what I could only describe as 'depersonalization' with a profound detachment from reality. It's hard to describe to someone who has never experienced it. This was one of the scariest moments for me. After a few weeks of occasionally getting these attacks it slowly calmed and turned into problems with sleep. 6 months on I still sometimes have panic attacks at night(for which benzodiazepines are a good cure) but I am recovering.

I had problems with depression before taking MDMA for this first time, and I think that is what attracted me to it so much. I have read, and maybe some of you will agree with this, that people with depression may be more prone to using MDMA. 6 months after I now realize that taking MDMA helped me in the long run - it helped me to evaluate who I am, what I am doing with my life, and now I am more sure-footed than before. I have read about using MDMA to help with certain psychiatric problems and now I can really see why.

For those of you worried about permanent effects - take the time to google it, find good sources(not 1 reply threads on forums), and don't be afraid. You are simply having something along the lines of 'drug induced psychosis'(whether it's psychosis...you can be the judge). Don't worry, as stated earlier in the thread it may take many months for things to come back down, but you will come back to yourself. Remember that people are here for you.

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

Thanks for the post man. It means a lot to see these posts of recovery continue to pile up. Gives hope to those going through some dark times like myself.

 

[pmz]

So does it sound like a good thing that Ive been increasingly pissed off about stuff lately. When before I noticed it was hard for me to get mad at things I felt like I should be getting mad at? I was actually in a good mood today. Maybe im going though a range of emotions that will slowely level out. Sound like recovery?

 

[ggarza921]

So does it sound like a good thing that Ive been increasingly pissed off about stuff lately. When before I noticed it was hard for me to get mad at things I felt like I should be getting mad at? I was actually in a good mood today. Maybe im going though a range of emotions that will slowely level out. Sound like recovery?

Sounds like you're getting there, pmz. Are you still going on that wilderness trip?

 

[pmz]

Sounds like you're getting there, pmz. Are you still going on that wilderness trip?

Awesome! I just want my self back already!

most likely. its kinda crazy pricey in the end, but I think it will be worth it. Im just working out logistics at the moment.