Mathematical (formal) and informal logic

[Antiprosynthesis]

A. Formal and informal:

Example:

Formal:

p ) q

This is the implication, and it is read: if p then q

Informal:

If sharis is in Paris, then she buys perfume.

So, if Sharis buys perfume, does this mean she is in Paris? No. This is false reasoning called the reverse implication, lawyers use this reasoning, instead of saying 'we can not prove he is guilty, so he is innocent', they say 'we can not prove he is innocent so he is guilty'...

An example of formal and informal reasoning:

Formal :

1. p*q
2. p ) r
3. r )~s
4. ~q

5. p^r^~s

Quod erat demonstrandum

It is read like this:

1. p or q
2. if p then r
3. if r then not s
4. not q

5. p and r and not s

Informal:

1. He likes techno music or he likes homework
2. If he likes techno music then he likes XTC
3. If he likes XTC he does not like classical music
4. He does not like homework

Ergo

5. he likes techno music and XTC and he does not like classical music

B. Informal:

Reductio ad absurdum: making an absurd proposition with an argument of who you are debating with to show that it is not logically sound.

Ad hominem: this is false reasoning, reacting on who you are debating with instead of what he is saying...

Anyone want to talk logic?

 

[gordonliddy]

This is fascinating. I have limited time.

I'm in but you'll have to move slow with me.

I'd recommend that you avoid using the formal expressions and instead use the inflated expressions if you realistically want me to keep up, as tedious as you might find that. Anyways software should be able to help you with that. Ask if needed please.

 

[Antiprosynthesis]

This is fascinating. I have limited time.

I'm in but you'll have to move slow with me.

I'd recommend that you avoid using the formal expressions and instead use the inflated expressions if you realistically want me to keep up, as tedious as you might find that. Anyways software should be able to help you with that. Ask if needed please.

Nice that you are interested! Anything in particular you would like to discuss?

 

[gordonliddy]

Nice that you are interested! Anything in particular you would like to discuss?

Yes. Would you be willing to forumalte another word problem or two? Then I could expand it for you...and possibly have a stab at formalising (?) it if you like. I would like a word problem or two of the sort that you used in your introduction, possibly one or two more layers complex.

 

[Antiprosynthesis]

I was rather hope to discuss something, maybe everyone introduces one...

 

[gordonliddy]

OK. Topic is sociocracy. Have you heard of it? I apologise for the silly name of that doctrine.

 

[Brendan12]

Formal logic like used in construction or programming..

Informal logic like the law of the wild is the logic of subjective perception.(s)

Selection theory is true.

-1, 0, 1

Loop a string into and between ^those numbers.

 

[gordonliddy]

Loop a string into and between ^those numbers.

I love this! Let's see how I do. Please rate my answer on a scale of one to ten, and don't give me a zero!!

So my string is -1.5, -0.5, 0.5, 1.5

I suppose that's a bit lazy. So fully expressed would be.

-1.5, -1, -0.5, 0, 0.5, 1.5

What you gave me was the perfect level of complexity, by the way.

So how'd I do?

 

[sonicwhite]

As soon as something is born, it'll die one day. You get a new car soon it will become rusty. Everything in this physical plane is relative to time and space. Until you can comprehend eternity you'll always think get the most out of life. What ppl fail to see that if you do grow old you will be there tomorrow. Or maybe some unforseen accident that cut you life short. That's why I say emphatically that store yourselves things in Heaven. Don't think you can do what you want and go to Heaven. Jesus spoke more about Hell then heaven. Even the thousand yr peace will have time. According to scripture 1 day in heaven is a thousand years and vice versa. Ppl go around go to the store and just think their lives will keep going then bam! Hell is complete and utter separation from all that has to do with life. Heaven is the total opposite of Hell. To know you're a son. That you will taken care of.




I gave my life at 21, I had to forsake my life. I did with the Lord's help. I've denied every lustful relationship cuz God don't tempt but He does test. I take Him very seriously. One day you'll see the thousands of religion you where ministered the Right one.

 

[sonicwhite]

I knew a good friend of mine, he had a trouble adulthood. 20 is the target age 4 schizophrenia. Well Him Being like me would just down whatever. I and Him can look back and see a stroke of genius at the time tho he was messed up. It took no comfort meds, just sheer going thru it that he made it out with the help of medication. Me and him talk about coming off it but it is needed right now.

This friend of mine is me. My grandmother and dad both suffered from bipolar but I'm thinking schizophrenia is in there somewhere. I came to the conclusion that I'll be alone. Why make her suffer. Maybe she deep down wants that. These voices are loud commanding voices that aren't your subconscious. It's words that go right thru you. Meth sure as he'll didn't help. I lost everything I held Dear, oh well. It's a very devastating disease that if you don't treat will get worse. Being locked in jail 4, 2 months didn't help. I don't get enough dopamine. I don't want too much tho. One thing that I came to this knowledge that there is a creator. He is Love. He is Mercy when you want it. I'm not ashamed of what I deal with. I probably would tell God yeah right you're going to have me do that.

 

[Brendan12]

I love this! Let's see how I do. Please rate my answer on a scale of one to ten, and don't give me a zero!!

So my string is -1.5, -0.5, 0.5, 1.5

I suppose that's a bit lazy. So fully expressed would be.

-1.5, -1, -0.5, 0, 0.5, 1.5

What you gave me was the perfect level of complexity, by the way.

So how'd I do?

I think it forms an excellent string!

Or it could also be called a wave with maximum amplitude of -1.5 to +1.5

This could be the start of an interesting science..

Making strings and waves..

Also I wonder what it would be like expanding and contracting strings..

Bounded vs unbounded harmonic strings..

Tension. Densities.. dimensions.. dots and lines..both curved AND straight..

I'm sure a person could work a line of numbers.. a straight line as well..

 

[sonicwhite]

I stink at math. I think I got to the 10th grade. My ADD at the time, I didn't know it then but I see why I struggled so much. I am however very calculated. I think of all possibilities before they happen. I just haven't invested in this gift cuz use the wrong way you end up with a law abiding citizen. I don't hurt ppl. I allow their own folly fall on them and it will, I'm confident enough in God I've seen Him always prevail. One thing God hates, when you threaten his son especially one who is innocent. I pray that God just gets me to my new home. Salvation Army. Hopefully God advances me into what He wants. The Only truth I can convey is I know most of you had bad childhoods. I'm sorry, me too. I will say the Lord passionately loves you so much. Please honor his wish so He won't honor yours. What does it profit a man to gain the whole wide world yet lose his own soul.

 

[Brendan12]

Limit (as a math term) as all the potential possibilities.

Limit in the past. That is to say the past cannot change so it is limited.

Limit ad infinitum.

 

[gordonliddy]

I think it forms an excellent string!

Or it could also be called a wave with maximum amplitude of -1.5 to +1.5

This could be the start of an interesting science..

Making strings and waves..

Also I wonder what it would be like expanding and contracting strings..

Bounded vs unbounded harmonic strings..

Tension. Densities.. dimensions.. dots and lines..both curved AND straight..

I'm sure a person could work a line of numbers.. a straight line as well..

Thanks!

Are you familiar with ringing functions? They are splendid functions. I tried to find you a picture of one but ther internet was not cooperating.

 

[Antiprosynthesis]

Anyone knows the MIU puzzle from the genius book Godel Escher Bach, an Eternal Golden Braid?

If you dont know it Ill post it, its a puzzle of strings with some rules, and the objective is to form MU.

 

[Antiprosynthesis]

Can you produce MU with following rules using only the letters M, I and U?

Rule 1: if your string has as last letter I you can add U.

Rule 2: if you have Mx, you may add Mxx.

Example

If MU you can form MUU
If MIU you can form MIUIU

Rule 3: III may be replaced with U.

Rule 4: if UU then you can drop it.

Example

UUU can become U.

You start with the string;

MI

 

[thegreenhand]

B. Informal:

Reductio ad absurdum: making an absurd proposition with an argument of who you are debating with to show that it is not logically sound.

Can I ask why you consider a proof by contradiction to be informal logic?

Are you a constructivist?

 

[Foreigner]

A. Formal and informal:

Example:

Formal:

p ) q

This is the implication, and it is read: if p then q

Informal:

If sharis is in Paris, then she buys perfume.

So, if Sharis buys perfume, does this mean she is in Paris? No. This is false reasoning called the reverse implication, lawyers use this reasoning, instead of saying 'we can not prove he is guilty, so he is innocent', they say 'we can not prove he is innocent so he is guilty'...

An example of formal and informal reasoning:

Formal :

1. p*q
2. p ) r
3. r )~s
4. ~q

5. p^r^~s

Quod erat demonstrandum

It is read like this:

1. p or q
2. if p then r
3. if r then not s
4. not q

5. p and r and not s

Informal:

1. He likes techno music or he likes homework
2. If he likes techno music then he likes XTC
3. If he likes XTC he does not like classical music
4. He does not like homework

Ergo

5. he likes techno music and XTC and he does not like classical music

B. Informal:

Reductio ad absurdum: making an absurd proposition with an argument of who you are debating with to show that it is not logically sound.

Ad hominem: this is false reasoning, reacting on who you are debating with instead of what he is saying...

Anyone want to talk logic?

I understand what you've written, I'm just not sure what you're hoping to discuss, specifically?

I like overlaying stat probabilities on this kind of thing. Sharis buying perfume does not mean she is in Paris, but maybe sometimes it does. Improbable is not impossible. It seems like heuristics can end up predicting a lot of seemingly illogical things as long as there are enough networked data points. This is especially true if you start factoring in the mathematics of infinity. In an infinite system, anything is possible, especially if you start adding infinities.

But if you're talking about basic logical fallacies in day to day thinking and conversation, I pretty much agree with you.

 

[Brendan12]

Thanks!

Are you familiar with ringing functions? They are splendid functions. I tried to find you a picture of one but ther internet was not cooperating.

I am not familiar with ringing functions..

But a theory I was kind of concocting was Ring theory.. to do with sounds and rotations.. also in psychology the idea that something "rings true"

So can you describe ringing functions?

 

[thegreenhand]

This is especially true if you start factoring in the mathematics of infinity. In an infinite system, anything is possible, especially if you start adding infinities.

How is anything possible in an infinite system?

That’s a strong claim.

Also, what do you mean by infinite system? And what does it mean add more infinities to it (isn’t it already infinite) ?

I guess I’m just not sure what you mean by infinity, as it doesn’t seem to be the mathematical sense of the word.