• LAVA Moderator: Shinji Ikari

Math. I can't do it.

Roger is right, including the units at every step of the calculation makes it a lot easier, if you get to what you think is the answer and the units are what you'd expect, chances are you've done it right.
 
I'm working on this SO hard. It's so frustrating that I'm getting stinging tears in my eyes. Why don't I see what you all see when you look at a math problem? I took a whole night off from thinking about it. Here it is at 10 in the morning. I'm having coffee and trying to get a new perspective on the next set of problems. I've tried working the FIRST ONE

the first fkkn one god dammit

and I don't know how to set it up. I'm re-reading everything from all the math chapters to find the formula, and I can't find it.

The teacher is NO help whatsoever. No one has been able to crack my skull open for me. It's like I look at the words. I write out the variables. I look at the numbers. Then I try to cross multiply. I end up with 750,000 which is not even close to the four possible answers. I start to get a rising panic in lower spine and it comes right up to the bottom of my skull. From there I start having trouble breathing.

Now I'm in a full blown panic. I am angry with myself. I am frustrated with starting out another day not understanding what everyone else seems to totally understand. I feel like a freak. I feel very much like a failure.
 
1. A prescription calls for 100 mg of a drug that you have in a 250 mg/ 5 ml concentration. How many ml of the liquid do you need?

I just want to reword alasdairm's response, really. I hate maths too, so I'll put more emphasis on words!


There are 250mg in 5ml. So 250mg = 5ml. You want 100mg, so you want to change the numbers so it reads 100mg = however-many ml.

How do you change 250mg to 100mg? You divide by 2.5, because 2.5 * 100 = 250.

If you multiply or divide one side of an equation by a number, you must do the same thing to the other side of the equation for it to remain true. So you must divide 5ml by 2.5. So that's 2ml, because 2.5 * 2 = 5.


Why do you need to follow this rule? Because the two sides of an equation are equal (if the equation is true!) any fraction of the left side is equal to the same fraction of the right side, and similarly any multiple of the left side is equal to the same multiple of the right side.

(finished editing!)
 
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100 mg of drug is contained in our target, x ml. We know that 5 ml has 250 mg. 100 mg is equal to 2/5 of 250 mg. Therefore, we want 2/5 of that volume, which is 2 ml. You were looking for an answer in ml, which is what you've got, so you can be confident that you've got the right answer.
A prescription calls for 0.24 mg of a drug that you have in a 50 mcg/ml concentration. How many ml of the liquid do you need?
Again, the question tells us that the answer is going to have units "ml". First, convert the units of weight so that they're equal throughout. Whether you use mg or ug is up to you, I'll use ug in this case because 50 ug is 0.05 mg, which isn't a very convenient number to work with. So, we want 240 ug, and we have a solution that has 50 ug per ml. How many lots of 50 do you need to make 240? 4.8. So we need 4.8 ml of liquid, and again, the units check out.

As an aside, ugly, I know you smoke quite a lot of weed, you want to knock that on the head, cannabis and arithmetic do not make good bedfellows.
 
Why do you need to follow this rule? Because the two sides of an equation are equal (if the equation is true!) any fraction of the left side is equal to the same fraction of the right side, and similarly any multiple of the left side is equal to the same multiple of the right side.

(finished editing!)
yep. ugly, even more simply put you can do whatever you want to one side of the equation to make it easier to understand as long as you do the same thing to the other side.

make sense?

alasdair
 
In fact, it actually has started to make sense. I sat down at my table today and was able to understand the first problem. I solved it. I continued to the second problem. I solved it. By the time I finished with the third problem, I took it up to have the instructor check my work.

All three problems were correct.

I did it.
I mean I got it. I knew what to do.

I have 47 more problems to go. But I think I have learned what to do.

At any rate I'm SO happy and relieved to be relatively free of that particular frustration for the time being!

Thanks, folks. I couldn't have done it without you.
 
I don't know what forum this should go in. Maybe it's not even a Bluelight issue. But I know there's some damn good chemists on Bluelight, and they usually know how to do math. Here is a sample math problem:

1. A prescription calls for 100 mg of a drug that you have in a 250 mg/ 5 ml concentration. How many ml of the liquid do you need?

I don't want the answer. I want to understand how to find the answer. I'm completely lost. I read the chapter. It's like reading a foreign language.

You need to change the 250mg into a number that will be easily divisable with 100mg. Try 1000mg.

250mg x 4 = 1000mg, as well as 5ml x 4 = 20 ml

So 100mg of 1000mg / 20ml would be 2ml.

Here's another math problem.

2. A prescription calls for 0.24 mg of a drug that you have in a 50 mcg/ml concentration. How many ml of the liquid do you need?

If you don't want to make a thread, then don't, it's fine. Maybe someone can inbox me with a tutorial. At this point, you can send me video of how you solve these. I've got dozens of questions to answer. They are due tomorrow. I can't do the math. I can't find a tutor. The instructor already showed me how and I didn't get it and he's not about to show me again.

I'm in serious need of help and there is no help in my world for math trouble. I decided that it won't hurt anything to ask Bluelight, and I might actually find someone on the planet who can make me understand.

0.24mg = 240mcg
5ml would be 250mcg, so 4.8ml = 0.24mg.

You can tell you need 10 less micrograms, and each millilitre is 50mcg. so 0.1 ml is 5mcg, an 0.2ml is 10mcg. 5 ml (250mcg) - 0.2 ml (10mcg) = 4.8ml (240mcg)
 
I really think teaching "tricks" like cross-multiplying before teaching how things actually work via the factor-label method really complicates things for a lot of people. When they are taught trick A for situation A and trick B for situation B and trick C for situation C, but not taught that all three tricks are just different applications of a very straightforward set of rules, they get caught in a trap of thinking there is some secret that they don't know, or that they have to memorize a new method for every new type of problem.

I have to second Roger's suggestion to try the factor-label method. It is applicable to ANY type of unit-based word problem and it makes the actual arithmetic very, very simple. The only part of it that can be difficult sometimes is figuring out where to start your set-up. But, often, using this method can lead to the answer just by following the units, even if you feel like you have no idea what you're doing.

1. A prescription calls for 100 mg of a drug that you have in a 250 mg/ 5 ml concentration. How many ml of the liquid do you need?

To solve this using the factor-label method, I would approach it in the following way. It seems very long, but that is only to make it extremely clear what you are doing, and once you've done it a few times, it comes second nature to do these steps in your head very quickly for most simple problems. Then, for very complex problems, doing it this long way makes it easy to keep track of.

Lay out all of your values with both the numbers (factors) and the units (labels).
100mg
250mg/ml
how many ml

1) Identify what is being asked for in the answer, including the units.
ml of liquid

2) Identify the known amount given to you in the problem.
100mg

3) Anything left is a conversion factor, which you use to convert from the units given to you in the problem to the answer asked for in the problem.
250mg / 5ml. Or in plainer english: 250mg per 5 mL. Every 5 mL has 250mg, and every 5 mg has 5/250 mL.

4) Problem set-up. Start with your known amount.

100mg

Then pick an appropriate conversion factor that will CANCEL this unit and give you a new unit. To cancel a unit, the unit must be divided by itself. Remember that any number (or unit) divided by itself equals 1 and that multiplying or dividing by 1 does nothing and can be ignored.

250mg/ 5mL is the given conversion factor. But, we need to cancel the unit of mg and this wouldn't be dividing mg by mg, it would be multiplying mg times mg. So you take the inverse, or "turn it upside-down".

250 mg/ 5 mL becomes 5 mL / 250mg

Now multiply your known amount times your conversion factor:

100mg * 5mL / 250mg

When you multiply units in this way, just treat them as if they were another number, or a variable if you are familiar with variables:

500 mg * mL / 250 mg

The unit mg appears in both the top and bottom, so you have mg/mg which you can cancel out and remove, which leaves:

500 mL / 250

Which gives you your answer, which should already be in the units the problem asked for (this is a good way to verify that you have used this method correctly):

2 mL


Sorry for writing such a ridiculously long post. I blame Adderall and a poor work ethic. I hope this can be at least somewhat helpful.
 
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Ugly, what you probably have is less of a math problem and more of a problem with problems. This was my issue in school - I hated the fact that the curriculum tried to hand-hold me to the conclusion, rather than let me come up with my own methods of figuring it out.

To this day, I can't understand when someone tries to explain how to solve a problem. They write it out and it's just nonsense.

The two problems you posted in the OP I was able to do (fairly quickly) in my head by thinking about the conversions and dividing. The minute I put pencil to paper, I just end up confusing myself because I stop thinking of the problem and start thinking of rules to solve problems. This is probably due to lack of practice, but I also find doing rote arithmetic irritating and time-consuming.

For me, the best way to solve a problem is to reason it out in my head and just do it. This obviously doesn't work for more complex ones, but basic ones like you posted, I much prefer this method. I can do simple math in my head with amazing speed and accuracy, but the minute you make me "show my work" I'm lost.

The truth is, there is no way to put on paper the way I reason out problems without making it look way more complicated than it should be.
 
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Can't offer any help, just support. I have a diagnosed learning disability in math that has prevented me from pursuing a number of viable career paths. Sucks.

Good luck w/ your shiz!
 
I learned basic math fine, but once I got into high school and advanced math it became problematic. I thought I was doomed to failure until I ended up having a teacher who taught it to me in a different way. With past teachers, I was always asking why we had to learn this shit? And they would always answer "just because". We would learn through repetition.

The teacher I eventually got gave me situations where the math was applicable, and I got it. If you can't prove to me that something is useful, then I can't learn it. It must have practical value. So my teacher started giving me environmental math to do... calculating the dispersal rates of clouds, concentrations needed for rain fall, etc. I ended up getting one of the highest marks in the class.

I think most people are capable of doing math but it's taught so poorly that few people care. It takes a certain type of learner to do rote learning where you repeat stuff over and over again ad nauseum until it's ingrained. I can't learn that way. I need to apply it and then it's real to me.

Even so, it's not fair to force advanced math onto young people who are not meant to be doing it. This "well rounded learning" crap really annoys me. If someone is better at fine arts then math is going to be irrelevant to them as their brain is wired for a different kind of logic. Math is not "logical" if you're meant to be applying your logic in other ways.
 
I think most people are capable of doing math but it's taught so poorly that few people care. It takes a certain type of learner to do rote learning where you repeat stuff over and over again ad nauseum until it's ingrained. I can't learn that way. I need to apply it and then it's real to me.

So true. We are among legions of potential maths geniuses who have been let down by the factory approach to maths. For me, though, I need it from first principles, but first principles are glossed over so quickly they don't get the chance to sink in.
 
Can't offer any help, just support. I have a diagnosed learning disability in math that has prevented me from pursuing a number of viable career paths. Sucks.

Good luck w/ your shiz!

I just wanted to say that if you actually do want to pursue a career that requires math skills, there are programs out there that can help you. I also was diagnosed with a math learning disability, but through hard work I've been able to overcome it because acquiring math skills was necessary for me to follow my desired career path (and i still have a hard time doing elementary arithmetic, even though I've taken three semesters of calculus courses and two semesters of advanced coursework past calculus. calculators are a godsend for me).

I mean, just because a person is dyslexic doesn't mean that they have to be illiterate, and some dyslexic people end up being very talented writers once they find a way to overcome their impediment. Its the same way with math learning disability (used to be called dyscalculia). If its important to you to be able to do math, you should work at it... a learning disability shouldn't define or parameterize your life, especially with all the programs and resources that exist to help people with those problems. It can be overcome, and you may actually find you're talented at some aspects of math/problem-solving but just could never realize that potential before.

Anyway, just a thought.
 
If someone is better at fine arts then math is going to be irrelevant to them as their brain is wired for a different kind of logic. Math is not "logical" if you're meant to be applying your logic in other ways.

^ Nailed it!

I got tested for learning disabilities in 10th grade. At that time, my reading/writing/etc skills were post-doctorate level while math was at a 5th grade level. Even when I had the diagnosis, my math teacher refused to comply with the law, which requires that kids on a 504 plan (sort of like an IEP) be given a passing grade if they put in genuine effort. I attended tutoring sessions with my principal at 6:30 every morning and spent summers at Sylvan Learning Center to no avail.

I still don't see how Algebra, Trig, etc are relevant outside high school unless you're going to be a mathematician. With most Americans reading at an 8th grade level and unable to spell simple words, why not focus more on basic literacy, Amurika?!

You're totally right though: not all brains can comprehend all things. There's a quote about forcing a fish to climb a tree that applies here, I just can't remember it =)

Edit: Thanks for the support, Roger&Me. That's awesome you were able to achieve all that! Just found out about dyscalculia a year or so ago and cried when I discovered it. Having a name for it helped legitimize it in my mind after being blamed/doubted for all those years. Luckily, I managed to graduate high school/college and don't have to worry about teh maths anymoar! ;)
 
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