• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2019ish

Status
Not open for further replies.
It varies by state, much like marijuana. The first time I came across the private to private sale offer was when I was asked to buy a gun for a pimp who had lost his right to have one. I wasn't even 21.

I think the most satirical thing about them is the amount of advertising that goes into it. Billboard after billboard of spam. We get it, you like guns.
 
w01fg4ng said:
It varies by state, much like marijuana. The first time I came across the private to private sale offer was when I was asked to buy a gun for a pimp who had lost his right to have one. I wasn't even 21.

I think the most satirical thing about them is the amount of advertising that goes into it. Billboard after billboard of spam. We get it, you like guns.
Click to expand...
See thats one thing I dont know about. Can underage people (who are under 21) but handguns in a private sale?

I absolutely think that the gun laws should change for private sale. If you want to sell a gun to someone, you should bring it to a FFL dealer, have them background check you (the person buying) and then you can sell it to the other person. But then again, im sure that wont stop people (im guessing anyways). Felons should NOT be able to purchase a weapon, in private sales. Though all fellons arent "created" equal (ie. someone who had a pound of weed on them vs. a killer or a rapist).
 
You are right, you need to be 21 to legally purchase a handgun from a FFL dealer (long guns I believe only 18 sometimes less) and I'd imagine they follow the law much better than non licensed dealers.

It does get tricky and I'll admit impossible to completely stop the sale of blackmarket guns but it's obvious to me that regulating them puts a lid on this can of cats.
 
Chris42393 said:
See thats one thing I dont know about. Can underage people (who are under 21) but handguns in a private sale?

I absolutely think that the gun laws should change for private sale. If you want to sell a gun to someone, you should bring it to a FFL dealer, have them background check you (the person buying) and then you can sell it to the other person. But then again, im sure that wont stop people (im guessing anyways). Felons should NOT be able to purchase a weapon, in private sales. Though all fellons arent "created" equal (ie. someone who had a pound of weed on them vs. a killer or a rapist).
Click to expand...

Felons cannot legally purchase a firearm in a private sale. The minute they did they would fall foul of felon in possession of a firearm a federal offense. It is a real dumb prohibition anyway along with the removal of voting rights.

Firearms are not illegal and any private transaction for anything lawful is absolutely fine without any govt checks or interference. Felons can and will get guns if they want, the head cases will too. I think statistically that most deaths by gunshot are suicide, I may be wrong and someone can correct me, but you are many times more likely to kill yourself with your own gun than anyone else.

The idea that the govt checks will pick up the shooters and the mentally unstable doesn't hold up, one of the nastier recent shootings was done by a person who bought weapons legally right under the noses of FBI who had them under surveillance, had agents interacting with them and were well aware of their intentions. So the bad guys will get guns. If you ban guns or highly restrict them then only the bad guys will have guns. If you let it go, then the good guys and the bad guys can have guns and the good guys can use them to shoot themselves, the bad guys can use them to shoot each other.
 
novaveritas said:
Felons cannot legally purchase a firearm in a private sale. The minute they did they would fall foul of felon in possession of a firearm a federal offense. It is a real dumb prohibition anyway along with the removal of voting rights.

Firearms are not illegal and any private transaction for anything lawful is absolutely fine without any govt checks or interference. Felons can and will get guns if they want, the head cases will too. I think statistically that most deaths by gunshot are suicide, I may be wrong and someone can correct me, but you are many times more likely to kill yourself with your own gun than anyone else.

The idea that the govt checks will pick up the shooters and the mentally unstable doesn't hold up, one of the nastier recent shootings was done by a person who bought weapons legally right under the noses of FBI who had them under surveillance, had agents interacting with them and were well aware of their intentions. So the bad guys will get guns. If you ban guns or highly restrict them then only the bad guys will have guns. If you let it go, then the good guys and the bad guys can have guns and the good guys can use them to shoot themselves, the bad guys can use them to shoot each other.
Click to expand...
Correct. Thats why there should be mandatory background checks through FFLs before they can do the private sale. Currently felons can buy guns through private sales, because there is no background checks. That covers the sellers ass, because if it comes back on him....he's fucked for selling a weapon to a felon.

Im not for banning guns at all. Im 100% pro second amendment.
 
Last edited:
novaveritas said:
The idea that the govt checks will pick up the shooters and the mentally unstable doesn't hold up, one of the nastier recent shootings was done by a person who bought weapons legally right under the noses of FBI who had them under surveillance, had agents interacting with them and were well aware of their intentions. So the bad guys will get guns. If you ban guns or highly restrict them then only the bad guys will have guns. If you let it go, then the good guys and the bad guys can have guns and the good guys can use them to shoot themselves, the bad guys can use them to shoot each other.
Click to expand...
so do you have an suggestions to improve matters at all? or do you think there's just no problem, or no solution, and all these dead kids are simply the price society pays for this particular freedom?

alasdair
 
Personally I think the real solution is in waking the fuck up to the mental illness problems we have in this country and our shocking failure to properly address it, and our continued policies and way of life that have caused it in the first place. I do think making powerful/rapid-firing/large magazine guns harder for people to get would probably help, but people are going to find ways to keep committing mass killings until we can solve the reason why they feel they need to do that.
 
No, like I said I think making guns more difficult to legally obtain, while still making them fully obtainable to those who qualify, is necessary and appropriate. Particularly when it comes to semi-automatic rifles.
 
Shadowmeister said:
No, like I said I think making guns more difficult to legally obtain, while still making them fully obtainable to those who qualify, is necessary and appropriate. Particularly when it comes to semi-automatic rifles.
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree. Mental illness has become a big thing in the United States and around the world (im guessing, i only live in the US). It seems like people are just letting is slip by. We need to help people with it.

Like I sad before though, the only problem is that we have soooo many guns already out in circulation, im not sure if will stop anything. $300,000,000+ is a HUGE amount. It would be extremely easy for anyone to get a weapon (legal or not).

The only way I can think of a way to help is making private sales get a background check through a FFL before they can buy it. But then again, people can still buy it illegally.
 
Just throwing this out there, but perhaps your inability to deal with your mental illness issues has a lot to do with your insurance based healthcare system..?

Perhaps those most in need just can't fuckin afford it.

Plus the fact it's very easy to just blame the nutters. A 'normal' person armed with a gun can become a 'nutter' in the time it takes to pull the trigger...
 
Last edited:
You're definitely right with the healthcare system. Maybe an under lying problem was going on and they just hid it? Imo (I could be 100% wrong), a "normal" person wouldnt go shooting up a school or a office building.

Like I said, I could definitely be wrong. Or maybe something happened so terribly wrong that just pushed them over the edge and snapped. Who knows?
 
The for-profit health system/health insurance is definitely a big part of the problem, along with demonization of mental illness and a treatment-focused rather than prevention-focused medical care approach. The health care system would much rather you have chronic illnesses so they can treat you with expensive drugs and treatments for life, than it would you instead get preventative care that prevents chronic illnesses from ever developing. And psychiatrists would rather prescribe you a pill that changes your thought process rather than help you actually confront and deal with your underlying mental state.
 
Shadowmeister said:
The for-profit health system/health insurance is definitely a big part of the problem, along with demonization of mental illness and a treatment-focused rather than prevention-focused medical care approach. The health care system would much rather you have chronic illnesses so they can treat you with expensive drugs and treatments for life, than it would you instead get preventative care that prevents chronic illnesses from ever developing. And psychiatrists would rather prescribe you a pill that changes your thought process rather than help you actually confront and deal with your underlying mental state.
Click to expand...
I'm picturing cold business people not doctors lol, although I suppose all doctors are business people in a way
 
The doctors themselves aren't making policies, unfortunately. It's cold business people/shareholders/executives who have no idea what is best for people. Many people in the health care industry are sickened by the state of the health care industry but there's not much they can do. The best doctor I ever had owned a private practice, it was just him and his nurse who doubled as his receptionist. He did it out of his house I think, anyway it was in 2-story Victorian house. He actually cared and spent time with you and would think deeply about things, he only prescribed drugs as a last resort after trying other ways of treatment, and so on. Great guy.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Pete, this is what would happen here if the likes of Farage get into power.
Click to expand...
the nhs cant get any worse fubar, their stopping all minor prescriptions and telling people to buy otc I made a thread about it if you havent heard.
 
alasdairm said:
and all these dead kids are simply the price society pays for this particular freedom
Click to expand...

Bad choice of words, IMO. The dead kids aren't the price for a particular freedom, it is the price for neglecting several aspects of our society. I believe those intent on harming others will find other means if guns did not exist. I believe the problem is our society and our treatment of our fellow citizens. The gun is simply the tool to a means, and by far the easiest tool to use currently.

Chris42393 said:
The only way I can think of a way to help is making private sales get a background check through a FFL before they can buy it. But then again, people can still buy it illegally.
Click to expand...

I like the intent of ALL sales going through FFL background checks. It's a bit more hassle, and I get the gun lover's view that it is placing more burden on the law abiding citizens while criminals will continue to ignore it either way, but I like the intent. I could see going a step further, and paralleling DOT regulations - annual licenses in order to operate, all guns/vehicles are registered and inspected annually or bi-annually, proof of competency required to some degree (bad wording on my part, but I'm reaching for the fact that you are required to have insurance when you drive - which means all things are registered to you and documented with a scope of use = still badly worded). It would be a total pain in the ass for dealers, but they can pay for inspectors or auditors to come to them (they are making money off the weapons), and maybe for a personal gun owner with a lot of guns...which begs the question of how many guns do you really need and why? Owners of 1-3 weapons will get pissed, but it's minor like renewing your driver's license and car registration already.

This still leaves the criminals out of the system, but tightens control over every S/N weapon produced as it will have an equivalent of a VIN which then has a born-on date and info, and a history up to the point it finds it's way into the black market. At that exit point, the last person in control is accountable. This is a lot of burden, but I think would address as best we can the legal guns and create an accountable person for those that go to the black market.

What my idea omits is that I understand weapons are easier to make then drugs, and they are made everywhere and anywhere with relatively cheap equipment. This means there are mass quantities of weapons without S/Ns and no traceability. I'm not sure how many are smuggled into the US, vs made in country. But the only address I see for this is possession carries 10y prison term per weapon. Caught in a gang bang? Besides the trouble you normally have, you got +10 for the weapon. House raided and weapons found? Can't determine who's weapons they are? Home owner gets +10/weapon. This is rough, and from the hip, but my only thought on addressing it.


Shadowmeister said:
The for-profit health system/health insurance is definitely a big part of the problem, along with demonization of mental illness and a treatment-focused rather than prevention-focused medical care approach
Click to expand...

Where I have a bit of an issue is people are pointing at the big easy targets (pun not intended) and missing the rest. "Gun control" because people got shot. "Health care" because the shooters are nuts. Has anyone here stepped back and asked - WHO are committing the most murders (nuts are a small % of society)? HOW (guns most likely)? And WHY are they committing these crimes (KEY!)? WHERE are these murders concentrated? And focus in on addressing that.

A dozen people shot on a campus takes headlines for days. Meanwhile you have 3x that many killed in Chicago over the weekend and nobody gives a shit. Are there more nuts in Chicago? Probably, but that's not who is committing mass murders. While a school shooting is tragic, and I'm not arguing that that don't need attention, if we as a society wish to move the needle for this country, put the spotlight on where the majority of these shootings are occurring and address that first. THAT will make more of a difference than stopping one school shooting. It won't get the same headlines, but it will save MORE lives, it will work to change an area (geography, social, whatever) where this is a serious and ongoing issue as opposed to a random shooting occurring in an unpredictable place at some unknown time in the future. Work at changing society where the thought of killing someone is not a consideration at all, life is not valued, fellow man is not valued. Address the foundations of society, where it has rotted, and I see us making a better change overall. THEN we can take on health care. THEN we can decide if guns need different laws. But right now, we have problems with our members of society - period. Guns are just a convenient tool.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top