• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2018 Thread

A teacher can go on a rampage as is, there's no cops with metal detectors at the door scanning the teachers in virtually all the schools... 8(

"A teacher could go on a rampage" is a pretty poor argument against allowing teachers to carry concealed weapons.

Theyre surrounded by kids and having any weapon near kids is a really really bad idea.


Concealed as in totally unreachable by the niftiest of little hands who can both distract and sneak into practically any place you dont want them to : be wary. Kids hava an inate ability to get at anything they are curious about.

Keeping a gun in a spot that a kid will not get to and also eadily reachable on the 0.00001% chance a killer walks in is actually not possible
 
Im suprised the American culture holds the constitution in high regard yet have not really updated it to suit the current times as a document that old really needs to syit life as it is today and not what the situation was when guns were a pain in the arse, fired one round at a time (?) and I dont think many could afford them.


We dunno what ours is here and dont have to know it ir pledge allegiance. I mean shit a lot of our politicians havent read it. The dual nationality thing proved that.



It would hrlp to know all the gun laws and loopholes or just not have a gun plethora easily available to crazy people.

It has been updated. Many times since its beginnings. The bill of rights is very sensitive and few people want to make any serious changes to what's already written there.

And a very large number of people including many that do want some reform on gun control don't want the 2nd amendment changed.
 
Im suprised the American culture holds the constitution in high regard...We dunno what ours is here and dont have to know it ir pledge allegiance. I mean shit a lot of our politicians havent read it. The dual nationality thing proved that.

It would hrlp to know all the gun laws and loopholes or just not have a gun plethora easily available to crazy people.

Americans don't have a clue about the Constitution, the legislative process, gun laws... we don't actually know much sadly.

I'm hoping for smart, meaningful legislation to promote gun safety and control.

I'll settle for something to start the process.
 
Last edited:
Theyre surrounded by kids and having any weapon near kids is a really really bad idea.


Concealed as in totally unreachable by the niftiest of little hands who can both distract and sneak into practically any place you dont want them to : be wary. Kids hava an inate ability to get at anything they are curious about.

Keeping a gun in a spot that a kid will not get to and also eadily reachable on the 0.00001% chance a killer walks in is actually not possible

Nobody is saying the teachers should hide their gun on top of a bookcase or something.

If you knew anything about how concealed carry works you'd know that if it were done properly, the way the gun nuts are thinking. There's no chance the kids would get hold of them.

HAVING SAID THAT. Since I haven't said anything about the subject so far. I just want to go on record and say that I think the idea of arming teachers is completely and utterly retarded.

Forcing a large enough number of teachers to carry guns when they don't want too that it would make any meaningful difference is just asking for guns to wind up in the hands of people who don't like them, don't want to know about them, and are incompetent and dangerous with them.

And on top of that, the more teachers you have armed, the sooner it will be that one of them is a moron and winds up shooting a kid by accident. And when the numbers killed in school shootings is already very low, it wouldn't take much added danger to totally undo and make worse any hypothetical benefit they might of brought.

So, I agree it's stupid, real stupid. Just not the way you suggest.
 
Last edited:
Americans don't have a clue about the Constitution, the legislative process, gun laws... we don't actually know much sadly.

I'm hoping for smart, meaningful legislation to promote gun safety and control.

I'll settle for something to start the process.

Yes that's true. I feel like my comment about how little Australians know about their constitution has been misinterpreted.

Yes, Americans are shockingly ignorant of their constitution too as we all well know. That wasn't my point. My point was about the cultural value placed on the respective constitutions by the respective cultures and their influence on them.

My point was that Australians on the whole probably couldn't quote you, even completely mistakingly, any part of their constitution. Because it's not really relevant for anything.

Most Americans have heard of the bill of rights. They know that one of the amendments is for free speech and most of them know its the 1st.

We have expressions like "pleading the 5th".

My point was never that Americans are more educated on how their government works or their constitution, God no. And my point was never that Americans know the constitution or how the government works particularly well on the whole (though just to be clear, most Australians don't know how their government system works either, people are just dumb like that).

My point was that the US constitution is a big part of American culture and with good reason. And the Australian constitution isn't, again with good reason, because it isn't much relevant.

What I said was addressed to Americans with the intention of providing some insight into how the Australian culture differs and how rights in Australia have a different meaning, and why.

And yes. I know that not everyone's going to have an informed opinion about guns, and that's fine. Nobody can know everything about everything. But I try to make a point of not holding opinions about subjects I know I don't know much about. Because I know that if I do, I could wind up looking back one day and thinking about how stupid what I said was and how by doing so I spread ignorance and was one among a million voices lobbying for something that was a mistake.

You don't HAVE to have an opinion about everything. But if you decide something interests you and you care about it, I think the responsible thing is try and learn about the subject matter before coming to and trying to enforce an opinion.

This kinda stuff is important. It affects people's lives. Countless people have died because of well meaning but poorly thought out ideas. I don't want to be part of that problem. And it's frustrating when I think about how much time I've spent learning about all sorts of subjects. So that I felt I could argue from knowledge. Only to see nearly everyone else having such little regard or care to find out anything about what they're discussing.

People here are advocating for stuff that will affect millions of people. Take away a hobby they have safely and legally enjoyed for years. They are advocating for things that could put lives in danger if their assumptions turn out to be wrong.

None of us are actually making law, but we reflect the people of our cultures. When we show so little concern about finding out anything to do with the things we advocate for. We send a message to everyone around us that that's OK and that's normal.

And as a collective we really do yield power. And that's where it really does cause damage and harm.

Not to mention this is being argued on the internet. Every person here has access to the most powerful learning tool ever created. In a time where finding our accurate information has never been easier or more accessible.

So to hear people just say they don't have the time when they have plenty for bluelight or Facebook or whatever. You can see why that might be frustrating to say the least.

You're right though, much of what I know about guns comes from growing up in a gun subculture. Which no doubt has an influence on my opinions. Because I see the gun nuts as real people. Not as a faceless corporation.

People keep acting like everyone in America has liberal gun views and it's only the faceless gun lobby powered by the corporations in opposition. But that's crap. Most of the NRAs money comes from ordinary Americans. A lot of ordinary Americans really don't agree.

And then you have the huge number who like me have views that are somewhere in the middle. Point is its not nearly as cut and dry as some people act.
 
Last edited:
Please stop talking about shit you don't know about. Nobody is saying the teachers should hide their gun on top of a bookcase or something.

If you knew anything about how concealed carry works you'd know that if it were done properly, the way the gun nuts are thinking. There's no chance the kids would get hold of them.

HAVING SAID THAT. Since I haven't said anything about the subject so far. I just want to go on record and say that I think the idea of arming teachers is completely and utterly retarded.

Forcing a large enough number of teachers to carry guns when they don't want too that it would make any meaningful difference is just asking for guns to wind up in the hands of people who don't like them, don't want to know about them, and are incompetent and dangerous with them.

And on top of that, the more teachers you have armed, the sooner it will be that one of them is a moron and winds up shooting a kid by accident. And when the numbers killed in school shootings is already very low, it wouldn't take much added danger to totally undo and make worse any hypothetical benefit they might of brought.

So, I agree it's stupid, real stupid. Just not the way you suggest.

Jess please dont be like that. Of course I dont know anything about guns or carrying them concealed etc.

All I know is guns in classrooms is ridiculous
 
Damn. I was too slow. I was just starting to edit it. But youd already replied.

I'm sorry what I said was rude of me, which is why I was about to change it.
I still mostly agree with what I said, but the comment I made in the first sentence and third sentences was unnecessary and rude. I apologize.

And I agree. It is ridiculous. It's not a solution to anything. I probably have different reasons for that believe but same outcome either way.
 
Arming teachers (who's to say they aren't already armed?) is probably a waste of time until we have evidence to say that armed civilians are effective in stopping massacres. I've yet to hear of many that have even been stopped in such a way. Given how common guns are in the States, it amazes me that we don't have this data.
 
Arming teachers (who's to say they aren't already armed?) is probably a waste of time until we have evidence to say that armed civilians are effective in stopping massacres. I've yet to hear of many that have even been stopped in such a way. Given how common guns are in the States, it amazes me that we don't have this data.

The only recent one I know of is the South Texas church shooting.

Anyway, arming teachers is a horrible idea. Forcing a teacher to be required to be trained on and carry a lethal weapon is just begging for any number of awful situations. Most cynical gun marketing ploy ever!
 
Arming teachers (who's to say they aren't already armed?) is probably a waste of time until we have evidence to say that armed civilians are effective in stopping massacres. I've yet to hear of many that have even been stopped in such a way. Given how common guns are in the States, it amazes me that we don't have this data.

Umm.. Guns might be common, but massacres aren't. Even in the higher estimates of what you define a spree killing to be, it's not nearly enough events to make for good data.

Then you have the fact that you are probably imagining it wrong. Guns might be common in the number of guns per citizen sense. But many people have a large gun collection that throws out the numbers. Once you look at the number of households with guns, it doesn't look as high, and it varies dramatically from place to place. Tending to become lower in high crime areas. Because high crime areas tend to be cities which tend to lean Democrat and have more gun control laws and fewer gun nuts. And higher in rural areas and the south which lean republican and have stronger gun cultures.

And then you have the fact that only a small portion of gun owners have concealed carry permits.

And finally its all rendered meaningless once you consider that nearly all off these massacres happened in signed gun free zones where most law abiding concealed weapon holders either won't go or won't be armed while they're there anyway.

So it shouldn't amaze you at all. But people keep simplifying everything and just making reckless assumptions about it all. As I've repeatedly tried to point out over and over and over and over.
 
Last edited:
Yeah youre right. My views are very remote and simplified and the whole issue is complicated .

This really just shows that aussie and americans are fundamentally different and thats just through the passage of time.

We both were british colonies
 
Jess Im saying banning all opioids is terrible and that is what the US is essentially trying to do, I think the opioid scheme was alot better in the US than Europe and now youre trying to copy europe and take that model to the extreme. It wont work, it will just make street opiate problems worse. Please read what I'm actually saying.

Not powerful enough? The US government isnt as wealthy or powerful as the EU and China and even India will overtake in the near future. In terms of GDP per capita and HDI (real measures of people's wealth and development) the US has slipped and there are many countries ahead, so you certainly arent number 1. We in the UK actually understand that Americans are individuals and not everyone is arrogant or has the same twisted opinion but you just proved otherwise about yourself. If you want to attack other countries and be like that saying places like Mexico are so dirty and "3rd world" alot of those places are more satisfied with life, happier and have lower suicide rates not to mention very lavish areas of Mexico City and Puerto Vallarta compared to bad parts of New Orelans and Flint, MI which is your reputation in the world now, get off it

Its people like you that make Americans look like arrogant ignorant fools when they really arent
 
Last edited:
Yeah youre right. My views are very remote and simplified and the whole issue is complicated .

This really just shows that aussie and americans are fundamentally different and thats just through the passage of time.

We both were british colonies

Very true, the 2nd amendment is how British law was in the 17/18th century from what I understand so the US has elements of old Britain when others like Australia and Canada have become much more with it. The awful murder rates and life expectancy in the US dont lie
 
Jess Im saying banning all opioids is terrible and that is what the US is essentially trying to do, I think the opioid scheme was alot better in the US than Europe and now youre trying to copy europe and take that model to the extreme. It wont work, it will just make street opiate problems worse. Please read what I'm actually saying.

Not powerful enough? The US government isnt as wealthy or powerful as the EU and China and even India will overtake in the near future. In terms of GDP per capita and HDI (real measures of people's wealth and development) the US has slipped and there are many countries ahead, so you certainly arent number 1. We in the UK actually understand that Americans are individuals and not everyone is arrogant or has the same twisted opinion but you just proved otherwise about yourself. If you want to attack other countries and be like that saying places like Mexico are so dirty and "3rd world" alot of those places are more satisfied with life, happier and have lower suicide rates not to mention very lavish areas of Mexico City and Puerto Vallarta compared to bad parts of New Orelans and Flint, MI which is your reputation in the world now, get off it

Its people like you that make Americans look like arrogant ignorant fools when they really arent

Why should I make any attempt to further read and better grasp anything you say when you clearly don't do the same?

I didn't say the US was number one, you made it up yourself. Probably so you could have something easier to fight back with.

You're not alone of course, I'd say that most of the replies to my posts here have been like that. With the exception of one or two people who've made a genuine attempt to have an honest and sensible conversation even though they don't agree with me and for that I'm grateful.

Almost everything else has generally only had a fairly modest relationship with what I've actually said. Now it's understandable that some people will have made an honest mistake, and I'm sure in some places I didn't explain myself as well as I could have. We're all human after all.

But I think a lot of it reflects people reading the post up to the parts they didn't like, and after mentally assigning me to one of the belief categories, either skipping or skimming the rest, believing they already knew what it was gonna say. Then replying based on that.

Take your post for example. Going on about Mexico. I never mentioned Mexico whatsoever. I never said or suggested a lot of that almost laughable nonsense you just said.

I said Mexicans are dirty? I honestly started laughing at that comment. Most people have at least been in the ball park when they've replied to me but that ones not even close.

And as for attacking other countries. I didn't attack any member of other countries any less than they have attacked America or Americans on this thread.

But that's something else I've noticed. Speaking generally, and I've always been clear that a generalization based on my experience is what it is when I've said something like this. Generally, I've found Australians can dish it out but they sure can't take it.

They'll mock and rant about Americans all day long online, but if an American does it back they lose their freakin minds.

Sorry to the Australians, I'm honestly not trying to pick on you. OK maybe just a little ;). But I honestly don't feel as comfortable making such generalizations about other nationalities I haven't had as much exposure too. And they are just generalizations born from my personal experience. Even if they're correct generalizations. I'm not saying that every Australian is like whatever I've suggested they're like. And the same is true of all the generalizations I've made about Americans. I've never said there aren't exceptions to all of it.

I could say some things I like about Australia. I think it's way better on some issues than the US. Health care and drug harm reduction, and drug laws generally (with the exception of legal cannabis) are all things I think Australia is ahead of the US on.

You shouldn't make reckless assumptions oxyloveuk. I look forward to you showing where I suggested Mexicans, or any nationally for that matter was dirty or third world or some similar shit.

Cause if I didn't. Then you made it up. You willfully and knowingly made some shit up that was totally untrue then told people I said it. Not cool man. Though since this is at the end of this post. My friendly advice is that you either explain where I suggested Mexicans are filthy or dirty or whatever. It just not reply at all. Because if you reply but ignore it. I will take that and point to it as additional evidence you aren't even reading the posts you're replying too.
 
Last edited:
You said our countries arent powerful enough to get back at Americans so I put you in your place about you thinking youre so powerful when it isnt the case. Where did I say you said it? I used Mexico because its a common example many Americans like you have twisted and disgusting ideas about when your own country has major problems itself. We dont have anything close to the poverty and horror most of your big cities have in the UK so I think we certainly do have the right to counter the shit you come out with if youre gonna get low calling us less powerful, calling America superior
 
No. What I said was..

Isn't it amazing.. People in Australia, and the UK. They go on and on about how horrible America is because we try to enforce our values on the world.

Yet they do exactly the same thing. Acting like their culture is superior and we should be just like them. The only difference is they aren't powerful enough to actually do it. Fucking hypocrites.

Which made you lose your fucking mind cause like I said, you can dish it out but you sure can't take it.

I said they aren't powerful enough to go and invade other countries and try and force their views on other cultures.

Even if we assume that's wrong, which it probably is. I was after all somewhat trying to provoke a reaction. My point was that you absolutely can't stand having people criticize your culture or country even though you endlessly feel its your right to do it about the US. So I added that remark about only not doing it cause you weren't powerful enough cause I knew it would make someone go absolutely nuts.

You're not nearly as used to it. If the British are anything like Australians, perhaps you hear people bash the US so often it just seems normal. Like you're entitled to do it. But the idea that an American might do it to you. You just can't stand it.

So anyway, I gave you a small taste of what people from your culture seem so happy to indulge in. You took the bait and freaked out at what you saw as an American looking down on your culture. But you're more than happy to do exactly the same.

People such as in say, Australia, and although I have much less direct personal experience, it sure seems like it's true of the UK as well. You just love to talk about how horrible America is and Americans are. How we should be more like you. How we are crazy for not following your ideas on gun control or health care or whatever and just generally look down on us.

But if an American does anything remotely like that to you, you totally lose it. Just as you did. Accusing me of saying all sorts of shit that you totally made up.

But no, you put me in my place alright, you really showed me. That'll serve me right for saying whatever you feel like inventing and then act like I said. If you deny having done anything of the sort though, perhaps you should actually quote the posts of mine you're replying too next time so people can clearly see if I said what you claim I said.

You sure seem ready to assume what I believe cause "Americans like me always do". And what provoked you into making such generalizations? My own much milder generalizations.

Like I said. It's so hypocritical.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying every Australian or brit is like this, these are all generalizations. Like how got example, generally speaking. Americans barely know anything about the world outside America. It's not an absolute truth. But I doubt many here would contest its generally pretty accurate.
 
Last edited:
It does seem to be an international sport these days - taking pot shots at the US, sneering at various incongruities.

I remember in the 1980s almost the opposite, like the US was a fairy-dust Coca-Cola nation encouraging democracy and high standards across the world.

Could have all been just my childish imagination, or maybe it's the ultimate outcome of three decades of unbridled corrosive neoliberal-neoconservatism.

The US is hardly an exception is that regard though. All developed countries have gone that route to some degree. The US, Australia and the UK basically share the same values and work very closely together to impose them on everyone else anyway (minus the gun thing), so...
 
Top